The man who claimed credit for Modi’s demonetisation move is now unhappy with how it has turned out

[TimePass]

Have you at all got the point being made? That it is unreasonable to ask for 50 days. That it is possible to have done this far more efficiently, one, by not setting a pointless deadline that helps nobody and hurts everybody; and two, by having things in place, including notes designed to fit the existing ATMs, instead of finding that they don't work and need modifications in the field. If GoI cannot do simple things like build up a stockpile of notes before taking the plunge, why punish the people? Three, which idiot decided to put 2000 rupee notes ahead of 500, and 500 rupee notes ahead of printing 10 times more 100 rupee notes? Is anyone thinking these through?

Feel free to measure the pain or time the duration of the pain or whatever else monkey tricks you want to play, but my point is simply that this should have been done intelligently. It was not done intelligently. And that is a reflection on the temper and tone of this administration.

Everything can be done better provided there is enough Money and Time. That is the fundamentals of Project Management.

The point is to do it best with the limited about of available resources and TIME.

Middle of the govt's term and end of December is the prefect time to implement this plan.

If one has to find holes and find faults and assign blames then ask any housewife about her husband. They will find plenty to bitch about. That is life.

No one expects Perfection or even fault free service. Maybe you do. But like those housewives, its your problem.

One can continue to speculate on "What IF", "Only IF", "Maybe" etc. etc. That is the essence of demagoguery.

You remain free to measure the "intelligence" of the govt. , I will measure its good intentions , ethics, morality and values. We clearly have two separate methods of viewing the world.

 

[el che]

@TimePass

I beg you, stop reproducing this clap-trap and work things out for yourself.

1. Now take out the upper echelons: take out those in government service, those in the organised private sector and the trading classes. Less than 500,000 a year are eliminated. About 4,500,000 have some sort of organised earnings, a frightening 8 million are underemployed or unemployed;.

Sir, this figure is much higher. There are 30 lakh only central govt. employees. Then there are state govts. Number of Private sector employees are also not so low. Just TCS has 3,00,000 employees.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Everything can be done better provided there is enough Money and Time. That is the fundamentals of Project Management.

The point is to do it best with the limited about of available resources and TIME.

Middle of the govt's term and end of December is the prefect time to implement this plan.

If one has to find holes and find faults and assign blames then ask any housewife about her husband. They will find plenty to bitch about. That is life.

No one expects Perfection or even fault free service. Maybe you do. But like those housewives, its your problem.

One can continue to speculate on "What IF", "Only IF", "Maybe" etc. etc. That is the essence of demagoguery.

You remain free to measure the "intelligence" of the govt. , I will measure its good intentions , ethics, morality and values. We clearly have two separate methods of viewing the world.

I agree. And I beg leave to point out that government is not an abstract exercise. It has to do with people. That is why ivory-tower autocrats out of touch with reality fail.

Sir, this figure is much higher. There are 30 lakh only central govt. employees. Then there are state govts. Number of Private sector employees are also not so low. Just TCS has 3,00,000 employees.

Oh, please. Do me a favour; read the fucking post. I was talking about the incremental number per year, not the total.

 

[TimePass]

I agree. And I beg leave to point out that government is not an abstract exercise. It has to do with people. That is why ivory-tower autocrats out of touch with reality fail.

And who better to know this than people who regularly stand for elections and win, rather than armchair generals and economists who think they know best.

You have a misconception about who lives in that ivory tower.

 

[Joe Shearer]

And who better to know this than people who regularly stand for elections and win, rather than armchair generals and economists who think they know best.

You have a misconception about who lives in that ivory tower.

No misconception whatsoever. It wasn't the 56" brain's idea, he lifted a half-digested version from a bunch of crackpots who had no economics background, from a set of trained-but-not-educated idiots who were CAs and engineers.

And the percentage of cash used by each of those groups that stand for elections and win is different. Ask any political analyst who is not perched on an ivory tower. This was as much a political move as an administrative or economic one.

 

[el che]

No misconception whatsoever. It wasn't the 56" brain's idea, he lifted a half-digested version from a bunch of crackpots who had no economics background, from a set of trained-but-not-educated idiots who were CAs and engineers.

And the percentage of cash used by each of those groups that stand for elections and win is different. Ask any political analyst who is not perched on an ivory tower. This was as much a political move as an administrative or economic one.

I agree that this also had political motive and has enhanced the tough image of this govt. The inability of the income tax department will make this a blunder. If tax men can tax all the deposits the revenue will be huge. Income tax law needs to be simplfied to tax the businessmen who manage to evade tax taking advange of the loopholes.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I agree that this also had political motive and has enhanced the tough image of this govt. The inability of the income tax department will make this a blunder. If tax men can tax all the deposits the revenue will be huge. Income tax law needs to be simplfied to tax the businessmen who manage to evade tax taking advange of the loopholes.

Good point. This will plug the black money generation by the businessman and the industrialist.

The task of bottling up the bloated bureaucracy, which could usefully be cut back to 30% of its present size, of replacing the horrible policing apparatus that we have with a modern one, and, most important, of plugging the politicians' excesses by public funding of elections, and by removing the ability of politicians to influence administrative decisions, still remain.

 

[TimePass]

No misconception whatsoever. It wasn't the 56" brain's idea, he lifted a half-digested version from a bunch of crackpots who had no economics background, from a set of trained-but-not-educated idiots who were CAs and engineers.

And the percentage of cash used by each of those groups that stand for elections and win is different. Ask any political analyst who is not perched on an ivory tower. This was as much a political move as an administrative or economic one.

What a shame that Modi was elected to lead India and not you

I guess that makes us all Idiots. With exceptions of course, you and Amrtya Sen do not count.

And yet Another Red Herring, what is wrong if its also a political move ? Modi is a politician and BJP is a political party.

I was not aware that making political moves was illegal in India.

As for the opinions of self styled "political analyst/Pundits", I will give them the same "respect" I would give armchair generals and economist. I would rather trust the judgement of those who are actually practice politics. LOL.

I agree that this also had political motive and has enhanced the tough image of this govt. The inability of the income tax department will make this a blunder. If tax men can tax all the deposits the revenue will be huge. Income tax law needs to be simplfied to tax the businessmen who manage to evade tax taking advange of the loopholes.

There is no statute of limitation in income tax enquiry. So even if they are not able to review every case this year, it remains open for review in the future.

In any case, the cases are reviewed by the amount declared and it would be foolish to anyone to deposit money in the bank account tagged to your PAN number and not declare it while filing returns.

Its far easier to declare it and keep your nose clean.

 

[el che]

Good point. This will plug the black money generation by the businessman and the industrialist.

The task of bottling up the bloated bureaucracy, which could usefully be cut back to 30% of its present size, of replacing the horrible policing apparatus that we have with a modern one, and, most important, of plugging the politicians' excesses by public funding of elections, and by removing the ability of politicians to influence administrative decisions, still remain.

Modi's pet scheme jan dhan accounts have also come to the rescue of the black money hoardes. In 6 lakh such accounts high amount has been deposited. Is income tax department capable to examine all these account holders. To send notice, arrange hearing, calculate tax and finally raise the demand. Even after the demand is raised, the person can escape in two ways. Go for litigation and considering the pace of disposal of cases by courts, it will take decades to dispose this huge number of cases. Secondly do nothing, it is almost impossible for the IT dept. to initiate criminal proceedings against such huge number of account holders. These poor poeple are not worried about loans, IT returns etc. They are happy with the commission they got from the cash hoarders. When withdrawal limits are increased the money will ultimately reach the original owners but in new currency notes.

 

[TimePass]

Modi's pet scheme jan dhan accounts have also come to the rescue of the black money hoardes. In 6 lakh such accounts high amount has been deposited. Is income tax department capable to examine all these account holders. To send notice, arrange hearing, calculate tax and finally raise the demand. Even after the demand is raised, the person can escape in two ways. Go for litigation and considering the pace of disposal of cases by courts, it will take decades to dispose this huge number of cases. Secondly do nothing, it is almost impossible for the IT dept. to initiate criminal proceedings against such huge number of account holders. These poor poeple are not worried about loans, IT returns etc. They are happy with the commission they got from the cash hoarders. When withdrawal limits are increased the money will ultimately reach the original owners but in new currency notes.

Income tax authority does not have to examine all the records. All it needs to do is dig into one of the accounts and follow the trail to the one who deposited the money.

Once the real culprit is identified, there will then be an income tax raid on him. What better way to identify potential black money hoarder ?

Do you really think the poor Jan dhan account holders will not give up the name of the real culprit ? :

Tax officers have wide discretionary powers and make commission on the amount of black money he uncovers. Do you really think he will waste his time in harassing poor folks rather than focus on the big fish ?


Everything in the world can be misused. Police and jails can be misused. Does that mean one stops having police and jails ? Laws can be misused. Guns can be misused. Cars can be misused. The ability to be misused meas nothing.

 

[el che]

There is no statute of limitation in income tax enquiry. So even if they are not able to review every case this year, it remains open for review in the future.

In any case, the cases are reviewed by the amount declared and it would be foolish to anyone to deposit money in the bank account tagged to your PAN number and not declare it while filing returns.

Its far easier to declare it and keep your nose clean.

Probably Any tax case cannot be reviewed after 7 years. Huge amout has been deposited in the tax free states of north east and in jan dhan accounts. Many of these accounts do not hace PAN or proper address.

Income tax authority does not have to examine all the records. All it needs to do is dig into one of the accounts and follow the trail to the one who deposited the money.

Once the real culprit is identified, there will then be an income tax raid on him. What better way to identify potential black money hoarder ?

Do you really think the poor Jan dhan account holders will not give up the name of the real culprit ? :

Tax officers have wide discretionary powers and make commission on the amount of black money he uncovers. Do you really think he will waste his time in harassing poor folks rather than focus on the big fish ?


Everything in the world can be misused. Police and jails can be misused. Does that mean one stops having police and jails ? Laws can be misused. Guns can be misused. Cars can be misused. The ability to be misused meas nothing.

The money will be withdrawn in cash from these accounts once the cash withdrawal limit is increased. Culprit will not receive in his accoubt. He will receive cash from jan dhan account holders.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Modi's pet scheme jan dhan accounts have also come to the rescue of the black money hoardes. In 6 lakh such accounts high amount has been deposited. Is income tax department capable to examine all these account holders. To send notice, arrange hearing, calculate tax and finally raise the demand. Even after the demand is raised, the person can escape in two ways. Go for litigation and considering the pace of disposal of cases by courts, it will take decades to dispose this huge number of cases. Secondly do nothing, it is almost impossible for the IT dept. to initiate criminal proceedings against such huge number of account holders. These poor poeple are not worried about loans, IT returns etc. They are happy with the commission they got from the cash hoarders. When withdrawal limits are increased the money will ultimately reach the original owners but in new currency notes.

Quite right again. And this is the Achilles' heel of this administration; high and mighty objectives, and not a clue as to how to achieve them. The Jan Dhan accounts were an excellent idea, but look how they lend themselves to misuse when their creators spring such an awfully badly designed scheme - on the people, yes, we all know that, but amusingly, on themselves more than anything or anyone else. Apart from the sheer human misery, they are now the laughing stocks, of the country, of the region, even of the world.

And this is the bunch of Keystone Cops that want to fight a war with Pakistan. A bunch that sails its ships on their sides.

 

[TimePass]

Probably Any tax case cannot be reviewed after 7 years. Huge amout has been deposited in the tax free states of north east and in jan dhan accounts. Many of these accounts do not hace PAN or proper address.

Jan Dhan account are opened on the basis of AADHAR card, not PAN card. That means bio-metric data, name and address.

Also there is no statutory limitations on tax review. There is only period of limitation on your filings.

The money will be withdrawn in cash from these accounts once the cash withdrawal limit is increased. Culprit will not receive in his accoubt. He will receive cash from jan dhan account holders.

It does not matter if the money is withdrawn. What matter is following the line of enquiry till they reach the Real culprit. The IT dept will have a definite line of enquiry, especially if the line of enquiry one or more Jan dhan account leads to the same person.

Then what follows is the usual IT raid that will either uncover cash, or property or movable assets hidden in his house, farm houses, vehicles or bank lockers.

 

[The_Showstopper]

Modi's pet scheme jan dhan accounts have also come to the rescue of the black money hoardes. In 6 lakh such accounts high amount has been deposited.

Doesn't look so....

Post-demonetisation deposits in Jan Dhan accounts hardly significant

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[fallstuff]

Modi is hanging his credibility on a half baked idea. Wonder who will be the fallguy ?