The J-20 SUCCESSFULLY conducts first flight!!

[ArjunaTheWarrior]

How do you know that??




Both planes Date of Birth is almost same....Then why FGFA will be in service before T50....



And do you think the t50 pace wont effect J20's pace...




Yeah we know your Mig21 Bison can shoot down J20.....

before going into International market ...

the plane should get all the goodies ... totally integrated and preferably in service
with home country ...
in J-20's case ... the technologies ...will keep on integrating till 2020 ... or so ..
this plane will be in service with PLAAF or PLANAF ... in 2016 or so with IOC and by 2020 chinese can make it a real player in the game ... so by 2020 .. it can be fielded in Inter Market.. n after 2-3 years plane can be exported ... after chinese get this in numebers ... by tech integration I mean ... a final version of engine, radar, ew suite, weapon plateform, avionics ... that take time to mature ...


the last line you have quoted ... you have taken its meaning wrongly ,,

i said... India;s own stealth fighter wont be in the same category as T-50 or J-20 ,.. simply coz its in medium category ... indians are way behind in AESA tech ... and engine tech ... i dont expect india to catch up china or russia in ten years whn all the countries are putting all they can in his weapon plateform ..

 

[Rafi]

Well done to our Chinese brethren a belated congratulations.

 

[eagle20054]

YouTube - Chengdu J-20 the Chinese stealth fighter maiden flight

 

[Donatello]

before going into International market ...

the plane should get all the goodies ... totally integrated and preferably in service
with home country ...
in J-20's case ... the technologies ...will keep on integrating till 2020 ... or so ..
this plane will be in service with PLAAF or PLANAF ... in 2016 or so with IOC and by 2020 chinese can make it a real player in the game ... so by 2020 .. it can be fielded in Inter Market.. n after 2-3 years plane can be exported ... after chinese get this in numebers ... by tech integration I mean ... a final version of engine, radar, ew suite, weapon plateform, avionics ... that take time to mature ...


the last line you have quoted ... you have taken its meaning wrongly ,,

i said... India;s own stealth fighter wont be in the same category as T-50 or J-20 ,.. simply coz its in medium category ... indians are way behind in AESA tech ... and engine tech ... i dont expect india to catch up china or russia in ten years whn all the countries are putting all they can in his weapon plateform ..

I think you are mistaken, by a large amount.

Don't think that just because F-22 Raptor took 20 years to materialize and get IOC, it will be the same with J-20.

America is just starting to build high-speed rails, while China is already ahead with 5000 miles of track already laid....

China build's its projects in months what takes years in American or any other country.

People in America were saying that China will not have a stealth plane flying before 2018, i guess they would be pissing in their pants now. If you see the flight pics, you can clearly see the HUD of the cockpit.

The plane is ready, maybe they are deciding on the weapons integration etc.

They will have it in service by 2013 at most.

 

[ArjunaTheWarrior]

I think you are mistaken, by a large amount.

Don't think that just because F-22 Raptor took 20 years to materialize and get IOC, it will be the same with J-20.

America is just starting to build high-speed rails, while China is already ahead with 5000 miles of track already laid....

China build's its projects in months what takes years in American or any other country.

People in America were saying that China will not have a stealth plane flying before 2018, i guess they would be pissing in their pants now. If you see the flight pics, you can clearly see the HUD of the cockpit.

The plane is ready, maybe they are deciding on the weapons integration etc.

They will have it in service by 2013 at most.

yaa even PLAAF official is wrong saying that the plane will be in service by 2017-2019 in 2009 ...

americans are quite right about the plane that it will be in service by 2018 ...

...

i am a test engineer also ... i have worked on numerous real time platforms that too in private sector... i pretty well know how many cycles and integrations it takes to make the product worthy to built a production line for it ...i expect 2016 for Induction .....in first few years the production line will b limited to limited no of planes/year and 2020 the planes/year will increase rapidly when it will be fully integrated even at chinese pace .. ...

 

[rockstarIN]

I think you are mistaken, by a large amount.

Don't think that just because F-22 Raptor took 20 years to materialize and get IOC, it will be the same with J-20.

America is just starting to build high-speed rails, while China is already ahead with 5000 miles of track already laid....

China build's its projects in months what takes years in American or any other country.

People in America were saying that China will not have a stealth plane flying before 2018, i guess they would be pissing in their pants now. If you see the flight pics, you can clearly see the HUD of the cockpit.

The plane is ready, maybe they are deciding on the weapons integration etc.

They will have it in service by 2013 at most.

2013 is very highly optimistic given the complexity of 5th gen technology. There is a high chance that the current jet is a technology demo one and the next one will see considerable changes even in air frame. I'm just waiting to see the PAK-FA 2nd prototype which suppose to fly this month

 

[ArjunaTheWarrior]

2013 is very highly optimistic given the complexity of 5th gen technology. There is a high chance that the current jet is a technology demo one and the next one will see considerable changes even in air frame. I'm just waiting to see the PAK-FA 2nd prototype which suppose to fly this month

according to russian forums thr is no great chnage in air frame in the 2nd prototype ... may be some internal suites are in test phase now...

 

[gpit]

Guys still engaged in meaningless rudder/wheel debate, just watch the youtube at 1:13 (1 minute, 13 seconds), the left rudder positions just as it is displayed on the other bigger, front-facing picture.

No need to argue this anymore. After all, for sane people, as long as it works, who cares about the ideology.

YouTube - Chengdu J-20 the Chinese stealth fighter maiden flight

 

[topjumper]

Guys still engaged in meaningless rudder/wheel debate, just watch the youtube at 1:13 (1 minute, 13 seconds), the left rudder positions just as it is displayed on the other bigger, front-facing picture.

No need to argue this anymore. After all, for sane people, as long as it works, who cares about the ideology.

Yep, and I don't think it just works, I think it works beautifully from that video at 1:10 you can tell when the pilot was trying to steer the aircraft multiple times to his left.

 

[gambit]

Agreed that the higher the flow speed the more obvious of the effects from the asymmetrical rudder displacement.

Aerodynamic rates of speed is the phrasing. At take-off and landing speeds where aerodynamic rates of speed are in play, any asymmetric deflections by any paired flight controls elements are highly dangerous.

Just a speculation here, maybe the designer re-used the same (modularized) logic to control the rudder movement for doing turns on the ground or in the air (with additional code controls the wheels while it is in taxiing mode of course). So on the ground during low motion taxiing when the wind effects are negligible the asymmetrical rudder movements wouldn't add much effect,...

Make that aerodynamic forces.

...but when it's in high taxiing speed regime it can still perform tight (or "tighter") turns if necessary, once this thing gets enough air circulation on its wings to lift off the ground, the benefits of having these asymmetrical rudder movements would be more obvious.

Benefit? Even an automobile driver knows it is dangerous to make sharp steering movements at 70 km/h. It is called a 'car crash'. Ever seen or even heard of it?

Take a look at the above situation.

In every take-off and landing, there exist a period of time and length of runway where we have nose gear weight-OFF-wheels and main gear weight-ON-wheels. In this period of time and length of runway, the pilot can do one or combination of:

- Rudder steering
- Asymmetric braking
- Asymmetric drag (wing spoilers)
- Asymmetric engine thrust

If he chose only rudder steering, for an aircraft equipped with twin vertical stabs, both surfaces must deflect to the same degree. This is not an unknown experience as we have airliners in the past that has more than one vertical stabs. Steering by any method at this point is dangerous already, let alone combinations of them. The time that any aircraft will spend in this situation will be brief. So what advantages are there to create a potential adverse yaw situation via rudder steering? The question is applicable to the smaller and lighter J-20 with its widely spaced twin vertical stabs.

I watched the runway taxi video several times and I noticed the only time there is this gross disproportionate deflection is when the pilot has to make a sharp turn at very low speed. Pretty much walking speed. When the J-20 made a sharp right/left turn, I saw either the right or left v-stab flailing by itself while its companion remain steady. It is normal practice to exercise as fully as possible all fight control travels before take-off but this is usually done while in chocks under the watchful eyes of the crew chief and his assistant. They will alert the pilot of any unequal or erratic behaviors by the surfaces. But that flailing movement by a single vertical stab is funky to me for a ground operation where there are complete weight-on-wheels, no worthwhile air data, gyroscopes, and accelerometers inputs.

 

[gambit]

I think you are mistaken, by a large amount.

Don't think that just because F-22 Raptor took 20 years to materialize and get IOC, it will be the same with J-20.

But if the J-20 is not in the same class as the F-22, may be China should invest that 20 yrs?

America is just starting to build high-speed rails, while China is already ahead with 5000 miles of track already laid....

How does this translate to inability to build such projects? It does not. It simply mean Americans like our cars more than traveling in trains. A train will certainly take me from point A to point B faster than my bike can, but certainly will not be as fun and the experience not as elemental as on a motorcycle.

China build's its projects in months what takes years in American or any other country.

Safety standards has no play in this?

People in America were saying that China will not have a stealth plane flying before 2018, i guess they would be pissing in their pants now. If you see the flight pics, you can clearly see the HUD of the cockpit.

The plane is ready, maybe they are deciding on the weapons integration etc.

They will have it in service by 2013 at most.

We can say that the F-117 got the Chinese pissing in their pants since it got past Soviet/Chinese air defense radars. The J-20 is not yet a 'stealth' fighter compared to the F-22 where its low radar observability is already established by independent parties.

 

[topjumper]

Aerodynamic rates of speed is the phrasing. At take-off and landing speeds where aerodynamic rates of speed are in play, any asymmetric deflections by any paired flight controls elements are highly dangerous.


Make that aerodynamic forces.


Benefit? Even an automobile driver knows it is dangerous to make sharp steering movements at 70 km/h. It is called a 'car crash'. Ever seen or even heard of it?

Take a look at the above situation.

In every take-off and landing, there exist a period of time and length of runway where we have nose gear weight-OFF-wheels and main gear weight-ON-wheels. In this period of time and length of runway, the pilot can do one or combination of:

- Rudder steering
- Asymmetric braking
- Asymmetric drag (wing spoilers)
- Asymmetric engine thrust

If he chose only rudder steering, for an aircraft equipped with twin vertical stabs, both surfaces must deflect to the same degree. This is not an unknown experience as we have airliners in the past that has more than one vertical stabs. Steering by any method at this point is dangerous already, let alone combinations of them. The time that any aircraft will spend in this situation will be brief. So what advantages are there to create a potential adverse yaw situation via rudder steering? The question is applicable to the smaller and lighter J-20 with its widely spaced twin vertical stabs.

I watched the runway taxi video several times and I noticed the only time there is this gross disproportionate deflection is when the pilot has to make a sharp turn at very low speed. Pretty much walking speed. When the J-20 made a sharp right/left turn, I saw either the right or left v-stab flailing by itself while its companion remain steady. It is normal practice to exercise as fully as possible all fight control travels before take-off but this is usually done while in chocks under the watchful eyes of the crew chief and his assistant. They will alert the pilot of any unequal or erratic behaviors by the surfaces. But that flailing movement by a single vertical stab is funky to me for a ground operation where there are complete weight-on-wheels, no worthwhile air data, gyroscopes, and accelerometers inputs.

Alright this will be my last reply on this topic as it is getting evidently pointless.

First of all as it has been mentioned before, this rudder movement could be part of the brake control, without knowing exactly what the pilot was trying to do we are all speculating here -- he could simply be putting the left brake on when turning left and as a result of that the left rudder moves in, I wouldn't be surprised when he puts both brakes on then both rudders would move inwards.

Secondly, this thing has been out there taxiing for days and all kinds of performance data were collected, in addition there were plenty of ground crews observing the aircraft as we can see from the photos and videos, they surely would have seen this rudder movement and it didn't really seem to bother them, do you really think if they shared your view and thought there are irrational (or "funky" as you put it) movements of the rudders they would have let this thing go ahead fly? We don't want to over-estimate the capabilities of J-20 and its engineers but I don't think you should under-estimate (to the point of almost belittling) them either, especially when you have just watched a photo for a while and have never built an aircraft before to proclaim there's some software problems with their flight controls.

 

[gambit]

Alright this will be my last reply on this topic as it is getting evidently pointless.

Sorry you feel that way.

First of all as it has been mentioned before, this rudder movement could be part of the brake control, without knowing exactly what the pilot was trying to do we are all speculating here -- he could simply be putting the left brake on when turning left and as a result of that the left rudder moves in,...

To my knowledge, rudder controls has never been a part of the brake system. There are two parts to a rudder pedal, the 'lower' part is for rudder and/or nose wheel steering, the 'upper' part where the toe area rest upon is for braking. The pilot can press this area without moving the pedal.

...I wouldn't be surprised when he puts both brakes on then both rudders would move inwards.

You may not, but I and the entire aviation world would have a collective gasp.

Secondly, this thing has been out there taxiing for days and all kinds of performance data were collected, in addition there were plenty of ground crews observing the aircraft as we can see from the photos and videos, they surely would have seen this rudder movement and it didn't really seem to bother them, do you really think if they shared your view and thought there are irrational (or "funky" as you put it) movements of the rudders they would have let this thing go ahead fly?

The ground crews would contain engineers at this point. Perhaps they have noticed and decided that as long as the weight-off-wheels logic will engage certain laws, the test flight will proceed as scheduled. The danger here is that if, and am willing to grant a big if, there is a software based fault somewhere, it may not require weight-on-wheels logic to manifest itself.

We don't want to over-estimate the capabilities of J-20 and its engineers...

Judging from the comments so far, that overestimation already happened.

...but I don't think you should under-estimate (to the point of almost belittling) them either, especially when you have just watched a photo for a while and have never built an aircraft before to proclaim there's some software problems with their flight controls.

Belittling? Give me a break......Nowhere have I said there IS a fault. I said I suspected and so far I have more than amply support my argument. If I have no direct experience in this issue, I would not know how to search publicly available information to support my questions.

 

[Martian2]

Alright this will be my last reply on this topic as it is getting evidently pointless.

Thank you. Do not feed the anti-Chinese you-know-who. His opinions are worthwhile only on non-Chinese matters. When it comes to China, his inner-biased demon comes out.

 

[tkunk8]

Up for success! tell me how upload pictures