The J-20-engine discussion is over and other speculative topics ... to separate from the J-20-news !

[Asoka]

OMG you're right. WTH.

Maybe Asok's been right this whole time? I'm starting to believe his ridiculousness ... ppl attacking CCTV's credibility are just straw-mans. Could the J-20 actually be using WS-10X's?

Are you being sarcastic, Figaro? I can't tell whether you are serious or not.

Here are the screenshots.

"The J-20 was China's first fourth generation stealth fighter jet, with a Chinese-made engine"

 

[Figaro]

Are you being sarcastic, Figaro? I can't you whether you are serious or not.

No. I think the WS-15 is impossible but the WS-10X variant seems more and more likely given that CCTV-4 references CCTV-7 (according to my knowledge). But I still won't accept your ridiculous WS-15/210kN/3D vectoring theory; the J-20 would be performing cobras if that were the case.

 

[Asoka]

No. I think the WS-15 is impossible but the WS-10X variant seems more and more likely given that CCTV-4 references CCTV-7 (according to my knowledge). But I still won't accept your ridiculous WS-15/210kN/3D vectoring theory; the J-20 would be performing cobras if that were the case.

1.) The WS-10X variant theory, is even less likely, than the Russian AL-31, because the nozzles are totally dissimilar.

2.) No WS-10X supporters, have even bothered, to offer the engine nozzles similarity argument, as proofs.

3.) No evidences, for any variant of WS-10, other than this engine, below, exists.

4.) I can excuse AL-31 supporters for being mistaken, because the nozzles are indeed, highly similar. But I just can't imagine the picture above shows the current engine of J-20.

 

[Figaro]

The WS-10X variant theory, is even less likely, than the Russian AL-31, because the nozzles are totally dissimilar. No need for any close comparisons.

Just because they can perform a vertical climb without afterburners does not mean a WS-15; a uprated WS-10 or AL-31F can do the exact same thing. Perhaps the uprated WS-10X has different nozzles than the WS-10A for stealth reduction?

 

[Asoka]

Just because they can perform a vertical climb without afterburners does not mean a WS-15; a uprated WS-10 or AL-31F can do the exact same thing. Perhaps the uprated WS-10X has different nozzles than the WS-10A for stealth reduction?

"a uprated WS-10 or AL-31F can do the exact same thing."

This is called groundless speculation, if you don't offer any evidence to go with it.

Find me some evidences, (like pictures, or development time line) that the variant WS-10B or WS-10X, actually exists. I really can't find any. I tried.

No evidences of a WS-10 variant's existence. If it exists, this variant of WS-10 must be completed, before J-20's first public flight, on Jan 2011.

 

[Han Patriot]

1.) The WS-10X variant theory, is even less likely, than the Russian AL-31, because the nozzles are totally dissimilar.

2.) No WS-10X supporters, have even bothered, to offer the engine nozzles similarity argument, as proofs.

3.) No evidences, for any variant of WS-10, other than this engine, below, exists.

View attachment 420727

4.) I can excuse AL-31 supporters for being mistaken, because the nozzles are indeed, highly similar. But I just can't imagine the picture above shows the current engine of J-20.

Guys,

No point arguing what engine it is, as long as it's Chinese made. This is a pretty clear straight in your face fact. IT IS A CHINESE ENGINE.

Btw, the documentary was very recent, it was for the 1st August celebrations this year. It also mentioned Chinese EMALS as having passed all the test and comparable or ahead of US EMALS and the next 003 carrier will have EMALS.

 

[Figaro]

Guys,

No point arguing what engine it is, as long as it's Chinese made. This is a pretty clear straight in your face fact. IT IS A CHINESE ENGINE.

Btw, the documentary was very recent, it was for the 1st August celebrations this year. It also mentioned Chinese EMALS as having passed all the test and comparable or ahead of US EMALS and the next 003 carrier will have EMALS.

I'm still hesitant to make that conclusion given little auxiliary evid3nce but the chanc3e are rising!

 

[Han Patriot]

I'm still hesitant to make that conclusion given little auxiliary evid3nce but the chanc3e are rising!

Well how else can a Chinese prove himself? Even after an official documentary from CCTV saying it, this is already the second time CCTV mentioned the aircraft as having Chinese engine. This is not some talk show, it's a documentary for the PLA, big shots are watching this.

Straight from the horses mouth.

 

[Figaro]

Well how else can a Chinese prove himself? Even after an official documentary from CCTV saying it, this is already the second time CCTV mentioned the aircraft as having Chinese engine. This is not some talk show, it's a documentary for the PLA, big shots are watching this.

Straight from the horses mouth.

I concur. Especially since CCTV-4 gets its info of CCTV-7. The interviewee Is more credible than any big shrimp

1.) The WS-10X variant theory, is even less likely, than the Russian AL-31, because the nozzles are totally dissimilar.

2.) No WS-10X supporters, have even bothered, to offer the engine nozzles similarity argument, as proofs.

3.) No evidences, for any variant of WS-10, other than this engine, below, exists.

View attachment 420727

4.) I can excuse AL-31 supporters for being mistaken, because the nozzles are indeed, highly similar. But I just can't imagine the picture above shows the current engine of J-20.

The WS-10X might not have the same nozzle as the WS-10A. Have we seen any pictures of these WS-10 variants? No. But we've also only seen one picture of the WS-15 of extremely dubious credibility.

 

[cnleio]

"you're being racist against non-Chinese people ..."

To claim that non-speaker of a foreign language, can not (at least, not easily) understand, what's written in that foreign language, is not Racism, my friend.

If someone said, Asok can not understand, what's written on this German, or French, or Russian, or Japanese . . . document, he is merely telling the truth, he is not being racist, because I really can't understand, any languages other Chinese and English.

Are you being offended by what I have said? I am sorry about that. But being offended doesn't make you right. May be you shouldn't feel offended, in the first place.

Develop a thick skin like me. Figaro.

I got insulted here at PDF, all the time, for expressing my candid opinions regarding J-20 and WS-15.

I am beginning to develop an immunity to them.

Relax friend drink a tea

 

[Brainsucker]

Deino,

latest documentary from CCTV showcasing the latest weapons in PLA. See 7:55 min for the quote saying J-20 is using domestic engine.

I have an access to CCTV 4 and CCTV 7, and I know that there are many PLA documentary with English subs in CCTV 4. But I have skip a lot of these shows. Can you give me a link to CCTV 4 documentary in the internet? I mean CCTV 4 PLA documentary with English subs?

 

[Figaro]

So do you agreed, Mr. Deino, the choice is now between Ws-15, and the supposed Ws-10b or WS-10X?

For the record, I do not think, there is any connection, whatsover, between what engine is installed in J-20 and being a good Moderator. And Mr. Deino is a good, able Mod. So I am perfectly willingly, to let go of, whatever bet, it was made on this issue, and let the bygone, be begone. And bury any hard feelings and passions, that was aroused by this issue.

It was unfortunate, that this bet was ever made, and I regretted that I raised it up, in the past. I hope Mr. Deino will continue be our Mod. , if the engine designation is unmistakably confirmed, once and for all.

You have not been vindicated yet ... the engine in question is still probably not the WS-15. In fact, since you're so sure, why don't you provide us an image of the WS-15's nozzles in depth? Maybe then we'll believe your 3D 210kn thrust vectoring engine theory ...

Nope !
To admit the guys I know are not the typical big shrimps and they are surely not bloating around what they know. They are calm, careful in the way they answer, respectful and so far they were never deliberately wrong with anything answer they gave me.

As such some might call this ignorant, arrogant or plain stubborn ... I call it careful.

If You and others agree, then it's fine but out of the three options on the table (AL-31-derivate, WS-10-variant, WS-15) they all rejected the WS-options and even if ball were quite undecided with my theory, they all prefer my option. But we will see.


Deino

Pop3 said that the Chinese were building the 001a and 002 carriers simultaneously in early 2014. Did he turn out to be correct? I'm not saying that we shouldn't heed their arguments but we shouldn't treat their words like gospel either. They are not deliberately wrong; sometimes they have inaccurate information. But CCTV is a primary source which I bet has more access to Chinese military equipment than we do ... weren't they the first to announce that the J-20 entered service in March 2017?

You have not been vindicated yet ... the engine in question is still probably not the WS-15. In fact, since you're so sure, why don't you provide us an image of the WS-15's nozzles in depth? Maybe then we'll believe your 3D 210kn thrust vectoring engine theory ...


Pop3 said that the Chinese were building the 001a and 002 carriers simultaneously in early 2014. Did he turn out to be correct? I'm not saying that we shouldn't heed their arguments but we shouldn't treat their words like gospel either. They are not deliberately wrong; sometimes they have inaccurate information. But CCTV is a primary source which I bet has more access to Chinese military equipment than we do ... weren't they the first to announce that the J-20 entered service in March 2017?

 

[Deino]

... weren't they the first to announce that the J-20 entered service in March 2017?

And that alone is wrong. The first J-20s were handed over already in late 2016 and transferred to Dingxin.

So, as I and my friends say, these guys at CCTV usually rely on internet reports and rumours in the same way we do and even if CCTV-7 is de facto official, they would not reveal such sensitive information nor will they correct any BS another CCTV-channel reports.

Deino

 

[Asoka]

"why don't you provide us an image of the WS-15's nozzles in depth? Maybe then we'll believe your 3D 210kn thrust vectoring engine theory ..."


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-439#post-8892490

These images show, the Chinese President tries out the TVC nozzle, around 2003.

The nozzles are obviously tilted.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-462#post-8986993
Differential tilting

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-515#post-9142934

I admit the seeming tilting are moderate compared to what we have seen on the Russian Flankers with TVC.

Some one has suggested those seeming tilting of the nozzles are purely due to optical illusions, but no one has provided some pictures of different aircrafts, that has this "optical illusions".

 

[j20blackdragon]

So we now have at least two documentaries confirming a domestic, Chinese-made engine.

Documentary 1:

Documentary 2:

What evidence do the AL-31 supporters have?
Nozzle appearance?
Anything else?