The Indo-Israel Phalcon Radar System Deal: Pakistan's Likely Response

[wangrong]

why are the chinese buying s-400? and exporting HQ-9 why not use it themselves?

China Defense Blog: First Photos of S-400 in China.

 

[ice_man]

again if we have a BVR which lol ironically you being an indian are claiming and me being a pakistani is denying i wonder why the F7PGs were not upgraded to BVR capable H2 and H4 are BVR but not AAM they actually are AGMs my friend......the link you gave me well it is another in the list of speculations and personal opinions

 

[ironman]

again if we have a BVR which lol ironically you being an indian are claiming and me being a pakistani is denying i wonder why the F7PGs were not upgraded to BVR capable H2 and H4 are BVR but not AAM they actually are AGMs my friend......the link you gave me well it is another in the list of speculations and personal opinions

Mate, I know what I am talking about.. the problem is you, just being a newbie to this forum didn't know much about those persons who 'speculating rumors' about those missiles.

 

[raveolution]

again if we have a BVR which lol ironically you being an indian are claiming and me being a pakistani is denying i wonder why the F7PGs were not upgraded to BVR capable H2 and H4 are BVR but not AAM they actually are AGMs my friend......the link you gave me well it is another in the list of speculations and personal opinions

Lol you are right but others claim otherwise due to their "inside contacts". Thats where this discussion started from.

 

[SBD-3]

Mate, I know what I am talking about.. the problem is you, just being a newbie to this forum didn't know much about those persons who 'speculating rumors' about those missiles.

 

[SBD-3]

H-2 MUPSOW
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The H-2 MUPSOW (MUlti-Purpose Stand-Off Weapon) is a precision-guided glide bomb manufactured by Pakistan and deployed by the Pakistan Air Force, capable of striking targets at stand-off range. It has a terminal guidance system based on an infra-red imaging seeker, which identifies the target during the final stage of flight. Designed to hit targets out to 60 km, the bomb may be able to evade radar.[1]
Contents
[hide]

* 1 History
* 2 See also
* 3 References
* 4 External Links

[edit] History

According to a Pakistani source, the H-2 is a lighter version of the H-4 MUPSOW. The H-4 which was created by Pakistan's National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM), working in collaboration with the Pakistan Missile Organisation and Air Weapons Complex in Pakistan, by modifying the design of the South African Denel T-darter beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air missile.

However, H-2's stated range of 60 km and its glide bomb design has lead to speculation that it may be a copy or a Pakistani variant of the Denel Raptor I glide bomb, which is also guided by an infra-red imaging seeker and has a range of 60 km.

H-4 MUPSOW
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The H-4 MUPSOW (MUlti-Purpose Stand-Off Weapon) is a precision-guided glide bomb manufactured by Pakistan and deployed by the Pakistan Air Force, capable of striking targets at stand-off range. It has a terminal guidance system based on an infrared imaging seeker, which identifies the target during the final stage of flight. Designed to hit targets out to 120 km, the bomb may have the capability to evade radar.[1]
Contents
[hide]

* 1 History
* 2 See also
* 3 References
* 4 External Links

[edit] History

According to a Pakistani source, the H-4 glide bomb was created by Pakistan's National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM), working in collaboration with the Pakistan Missile Organisation and Air Weapons Complex in Pakistan, by modifying the design of the South African Denel T-darter beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air missile. A lighter version of the H-4 has also been produced, the H-2 MUPSOW, which has a stated range of 60 km.

Three successful tests were conducted, the last one in 2003, which led to field deployment on the Dassault Mirage III and Mirage V strike fighters of the Pakistan Air Force. It has also been stated that the H-4 will be integrated with the PAF's new multi-role combat aircraft, the JF-17, which will start to replace the aging fleet of Mirage III and Mirage V aircraft from ~2010.

The H-4's stated range of 120 km and its glide bomb design has led to speculation that it may be a copy or a Pakistani variant of the Denel Raptor II glide bomb, which is also guided by an infrared imaging seeker and has a range of 120 km.

There has been much confusion regarding the actual identity of the H-4. Many Indian sources state that the weapon is actually a beyond visual range air-to-air missile. However, Pakistani sources state that the H-4 is a "beyond visual range bomb".

 

[raveolution]

Hey great info. Some Indian news channels did call this a BVR missile, probably misinformed people who don't know the difference between a BVR and a ATG weapon.

This discussion started when some member posted the H2 and H4 as PAF BVR missiles when they are not so. There is a detailed thread reg these two bombs on this site as well.

 

[SBD-3]

ya i know there always a mess in these threads

 

[Screaming Skull]

Keep in mind that in radar detection, bigger is better, and that the antenna is not the array. The antenna contain the array. A physically larger array than its peer equal to superior effective detection range and a narrower main beam, which equal to superior multiple targets discrimination, as well as superior target information.

Now...For the radome that house the triangular array set-up. The radome's diameter is NOT the radar antenna itself. This is the deception that some tried to foist on the readers. Take circle and label the diameter as 10 meters. Now insert an equilateral triangle inside that circle, allowing half a meter of gaps at the three points of that triangle. The three sides represent the arrays, the items that actually does the transmitting and receiving of radar signals. Are any of their lengths the same as the radome's diameter? Probably not. Someone who has better graphics skills than I can hack up a drawing to illustrate this.

If each array of this triangular set-up is physically smaller than the competing radar system that has only two arrays, then most likely it will have inferior overall performance than the competitor, despite having superior overall coverage.

Here is a diagram of the top view of the arrays encased in the radome.

X represents the length of the array, d is the diameter of the imaginary smaller circle within the radome that passes through the points of intersection of the arrays. Assuming that the dia of the radome of the Indian Phalcons is 11m and a clearance of about 0.2m is required between the array intersections and the radome (since there are no moving parts, a clearance of 0.2m is sufficient), d=11-(0.2*2) =10.6m. We can calculate the length of the array ‘X’ from the sine law-
d/2/sin30 = X/sin120. Thus, the length of the array comes out to be, d*sin120 = 10.6*0.866025404 = 9.18m

 

[hj786]

International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Chengdu J-10 Fighters for Iran
by Richard Fisher, Jr.
Published on October 28th, 2007

China may also sell Iran additional “Chinese” air defense assets like the YJ-91, which Asian sources have told the author combines an Israeli technology anti-radiation seeker with the motor of the Russian Zvezda Kh-31 ramjet powered attack missile. The YJ-91 would prove ideal for attacking AWACS aircraft ...

 

[raveolution]

Dunno what that guy is talking about. According to information available, the YJ 91 has two variants. An Anti Radiation and Anti Ship version. Both Air to Surface weapons with a max range of 120 km. Weird?

YJ-91 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[hj786]

Dunno what that guy is talking about. According to information available, the YJ 91 has two variants. An Anti Radiation and Anti Ship version. Both Air to Surface weapons with a max range of 120 km. Weird?

YJ-91 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Who to trust?
International Assessment and Strategy Centre:
International Assessment and Strategy Center > About > About IASC

IASC is a "think-tank" focused on medium and long-term security issues and their impact on the security of the United States and her key allies. IASC is supported by foundations, universities, corporations and private donors, and by contract work performed for the U.S. Government.

or Wikipedia?

 

[sathruvinasakh]

Its simple.
There is no counter available so far to take down Phalcons.

And in INDO_PAK scenario:

Phalcon will operate 100km inside indian border escorted by mig-29 and can still track the far western border of pak.
Phalcon can track missiles as well be it balistic or cruise.

with new AAD2 and PDV interceptors with stricking ranges far greater than any other,it will be nightmare for pak to launch either cruise/ballistic missiles at India.

Simply put: Phalcon together with RISAT series is a game changer.

 

[raveolution]

Who to trust?
International Assessment and Strategy Centre:
International Assessment and Strategy Center > About > About IASC


or Wikipedia?

Lol no idea... since it involves a Chinese weapon, maybe nobody due to the super secret nature of their weapons with hardly any info available on their public forums.

 

[ice_man]

Its simple.
There is no counter available so far to take down Phalcons.

And in INDO_PAK scenario:

Phalcon will operate 100km inside indian border escorted by mig-29 and can still track the far western border of pak.
Phalcon can track missiles as well be it balistic or cruise.

with new AAD2 and PDV interceptors with stricking ranges far greater than any other,it will be nightmare for pak to launch either cruise/ballistic missiles at India.

Simply put: Phalcon together with RISAT series is a game changer.

damn!i guess we pakistanis should lay down our weapons don't u think!!!!! LOOK your phalcon might be whatever you want it to be! even if it tracks us no problem! we can blow up all ur ground installed radars in a SEAD operation....so yes AWAC lets you track us just like our EREIYE lets us track your moves....

and if your AWAC flies 100 kms away from the border it will be in for an attack no matter what you say we won't mind losing 6 fighters to bring down the beast if it is that close to the border with escorts in a war situation!