The India Pakistan geographical divide is at least 1600 years old

[dreamer4eva]

23 and me

Sorry mate, didn't get your answer. I asked the question as ancestry.com flog a DNA test to find out about your origins on Australian tv.

He was already my brother in humanity, now he's a distant familial cousin as well.

Good words bro. This world would be a better place if more people think like that. Your folks raised you well. All the best for your future endeavours.

 

[Butchcassidy]

Sorry mate, didn't get your answer. I asked the question as ancestry.com flog a DNA test to find out about your origins on Australian tv.


Good words bro. This world would be a better place if more people think like that. Your folks raised you well. All the best for your future endeavours.

Oh, sorry I didn't make it clear. The kit i used was from a company called 23and me. Ancestry.com is equally good.

 

[MultaniGuy]

@ 1:24:00 onwards is the bottom line

Partition was the best thing that ever happened.

I love Jinnah for that.

 

[Chak Bamu]

One needs to be very careful of their gene pool being infected with hyper-ugly deformed savages. Nobody wants their offspring to lool like the missing link between apes and humans.

lol halarious.

Indeed Indians are dark skinned.

At least with the Afghan the kids will look healthy and good looking. They won't look worst than sub-human apes.

Easy there guys. Such racist overtones are unbecoming of this forum. Perhaps many of these 'ugly' ones are closer to God and better humans than 'fairer' gentry. Humility never takes away credit from the worthy, only adds to it. All humanity is a garden and all colors are beautiful.

I want to congratulate @Juggernaut_is_here on a very well framed and researched article. Although I am uncomfortable with his equating Judaism with Zionism, overall the quality is excellent & deserving of positive ratings. I was aware of the idea that he has put forth, but in a vague way. There is no particular geographic barrier East of Pakistan, except Thar. Between East and West Punjab, the boundary is quite arbitrary. One could make a case of Beas & Satluj being somewhat of a barrier, but that would mostly be due to people of Doaba being clannish in their own way. Today's boundary is not writ in geography, but politics. It may change tomorrow, as it always has been doing.

The thesis does fall when considering the time of Delhi Sultanate & Mughal Empire. The slow, inexorable conversion of local population to Islam in Punjab required the relative peace that existed back then and Pakistani Punjab had longer contact with Muslims and this later translated into boundary being roughly where it is today. One can not overlook this while looking at the reasons why the boundary exists where it does today.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

@Chak Bamu

Thanks for the kind words....But I want to clarify my point further...It is not my aim or intention to equate Judaism with Zionism....The Land of Israel may be under Arab,Ottoman,British control and still Judaism would survive.
But if that strip of land were to sink to the bottom of the ocean because of some violent natural calamities, Judaism would also end immediately or within the ensuing couple of decades..But Christianity would still continue ...Judaism is tied way too much to the land of Israel...Same with Hinduism and India as well as Shintoism and Japan



And Delhi Sultanate and Mughal Empires are considered Nomadic empires in my thesis, and nomadic empires were able to unite Indus Basin and Ganga,Yamuna doab both pre and post-Islam...Indo Aryan Empires could unite whole of North India and during their most powerful times, the small triangle of Lahore,Sialkot,Gujarat..


Of course the very ancient Mauryan empire being the sole exception

 

[Chak Bamu]

Judaism has existed for about 1900 years without a home country. It would continue to do so without Israel because adaptation is in place and has been so for many centuries. However, your point is well-taken without any reference to Israel & Judaism. It is merely a matter of tangential nuance.

For the length of time Mughal empire existed, I would consider it to have Central Asian / Afghan roots, but not something that was foreign in nature. By the time of Jehangir, it was well-integrated and not something non-indigenous to India. The same can hardly be said for Sultanate of Delhi, since no one dynasty ruled long enough to be fully indigenized, except perhaps the tail end of Tughlaqs.

What I am trying to say is that your thesis has a basis, but not a primary contributor to the present borders in my view. The genetic effect exists as a spectrum and it is difficult to decide on a cut-off value to it, especially in Punjab. The more direct contributor is probably religious. Though one may argue that it acted similar to the genetic component (probably low-correlation) in its effect, in my view it had the greater effect. We could step back to look at the effect and assign a broader umbrella term of Identity as to how and why it happened this way. Identity would encompass the social, geographic, religious, & genetic factors. Then we could put forth our idea as to which factor predominated.

In any case, I am glad that you are contributing to PDF with such a positive attitude. Your restraint and focus in face of provocation by trolls on both sides is remarkable. I thank Providence for a new high quality poster from across the border.

 

[Post Colonnial]

it's not arbitrary..the overwhelming consensus is that, there is not enough evidence to construct dynasty lineages and war chronologies, pre Bimibisara...The Pre-Buddhist Upanishads are considered proto-Historical....Vedas and IVC are considered pre-Historical....proper unbroken, definite recorded history of India begins with Magadhan dynasties..Magadhan empire gained early supremacy because of easy access to unlimited supply of iron

so because there is no 'evidence to construct' does it change the past or nullify it?
I think your methodology is a good starting point but will urge you try to rid it of such big assumptions which counter the otherwise data driven flow. Otherwise you end up with such contradictions as not using facts from Vedic history but yet try to use Upanishads which are by definitio, interpretations of Vedic precepts.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

so because there is no 'evidence to construct' does it change the past or nullify it?
I think your methodology is a good starting point but will urge you try to rid it of such big assumptions which counter the otherwise data driven flow. Otherwise you end up with such contradictions as not using facts from Vedic history but yet try to use Upanishads which are by definitio, interpretations of Vedic precepts.

Ask Most Indians what happened before 500 BCE, they will say flying chariots, talking monkeys, Gods sending babies down to earth , Giants, brahma-Astras were happening..The fantastical supernatural battles of Ramayana and Mahabharata were happening before 500 BC...Fact is both Historians and common people have too little evidence to construct a proper history of the subcontinent in the pre-500 BC era.. and let's face it, Indians were not like the Chinese, Mespotamians,Hittites, Greeks regarding historical accuracy and regarding keeping accurate historical records..there were exactly two proper historians in pre-Islamic India...Kalhana and Banabhatta

 

[halupridol]

@Chak Bamu
How r u old geezer,,i thought u left,,long time,no see.
Wait a minute,,is tht u in the dp?

 

[Post Colonnial]

Ask Most Indians what happened before 500 BCE, they will say flying chariots, talking monkeys, Gods sending babies down to earth , Giants, brahma-Astras were happening..The fantastical supernatural battles of Ramayana and Mahabharata were happening before 500 BC...Fact is both Historians and common people have too little evidence to construct a proper history of the subcontinent in the pre-500 BC era.. and let's face it, Indians were not like the Chinese, Mespotamians,Hittites, Greeks regarding historical accuracy and regarding keeping accurate historical records..there were exactly two proper historians in pre-Islamic India...Kalhana and Banabhatta

what you are assuming is not at all different from what those Indians may say, only in the opposite direction. Objectivity means finding the facts, not reacting to other idiocy with ones own

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

what you are assuming is not at all different from what those Indians may say, only in the opposite direction. Objectivity means finding the facts, not reacting to other idiocy with ones own

I am hamstrung because I cannot post links being a new member..else I would have flooded my comments with references..but if you are a bit enterprising enough, you will find the necessary academic links supporting my arguments

 

[Suriya]

Why are you lot begging to be different from indians. North indians and punjabis and Sindhis are genetically from the same racial background only pashtuns and baloch are iranic btw I did a ancestry dna kit and my family are mirpur ajk and i got 87% south asian and 7% central asian and 3% melanesian.

87% ? You are Dorga from mirpur/Jammu region . That pretty much explains it .

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You are mistaken genda.

I am of Maratha lineage myself.

Just reminding an old member (married though still pretty juvenile) where he comes from.

Says the confused faggot.. parsi wannabe.

I know where i come from... Balochistan... does your paternal lineage come from there? Most likely ....

So called marathas were massacred by Pashtuns and Baloch in Panipat... you might be a specimen from that particular era...

One problem being born and growing up a Parsi is that we cannot do low class gutter warfare.

Family is strictly off limits. So is chawl style jhopadpatti language.

Did stop you from being a cunt...and talkin about genetics and women and whatnot? Your mum must be real proud.

We have tons of unfortunate specimens like these in bhendi bazaar, bishti mohalla, pala galli, bhimpura, mitha nagar, and especially Mumbra.

We lovingly call them our Mini Pakistans.

And you must be from Kamathipura aka little india? Aka maratha-parsi khana.

Because none if any of them go on to pass through the hallowed portals of our forces.

In that, Pakistan truly has empowered subcontinental Muslims. And I doff my hat to her for that.

Cheers, Doc

True, considered indian mil only hires wife swapping,low lifes engaged in atrocities like gang rapes and fake encounters.. india has empowered the former low class ,bhangi type,2nd citizens of former muslim empires..

 

[Suriya]

14) If a man wishes that a son with a fair complexion should be born to him, that he should study one Veda and that he should attain a full term of life, then they (husband and wife) should have rice cooked in milk and eat it with clarified butter. Thus they should be able to beget such a son.

This is same old blatant lie and distortion of Sankrit Shlokas to say something totally different from what was supposed to mean.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

This is same old blatant lie and distortion of Sankrit Shlokas to say something totally different from what was supposed to mean.

This is the Ram Krishna Mission translation, by Nikhilananda....