The India Pakistan geographical divide is at least 1600 years old

[bananarepublic]

You mean Indus Valley rather than Indus Valley Civilization right? I doubt the Historians were suggesting that Huns were present in pre-2000 BC

not exactly huns but their original ancestors dont remember the name exactly but they were the ones originally settling in the stretch of central asia to the east of turkey and west of china

 

[padamchen]

Pakistan was more under the influence of nomadic Buddhist Kingdoms than Hindu Kingdoms..Even when they were under nomadic Kingdoms which were Hindu (conversion by rulers from Central Asian Iranic/Shamanic rites,in order to gain Legitimacy), the hand of religion was not heavy upon them

The Mahabharata specifically mentions (written between 400 BCE and 400 AD), that the lands of the Indus became unfit for Vedic sacrifice after intrusion of more and more fierce Mlecchas from the North-West



Okay I am going to be EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR among everybody here, but I will give you the reason why Indians want merger with Pakistan. After having interacted with Indians from a variety of regions, mindsets, piety level, religiosity level, socio-economic status , here is my conclusion....I am here implying Hindu Indians, as it is very very offensive to pose the question of merger to Muslim Indians:

Indians from certain regions want merger with Pakistan. They would be ones from Jammu and Kashmir,Punjab,Himachal,Uttarkhand,Haryana,Western UP,Delhi,Western MP,Gujarat,Rajasthan.

But not ALL Indians from those regions want merger..Brahmins from those regions will shake in disbelief at the prospect of merger.

It is the Higher caste Kshatriyas from those regions that want merger, and that too those who donot tend be very religious.

Why?

Simple Reason: Loss of Looks. They feel Partition left India with a severe loss in good looking people. Good looking as per their consensus being relatively Fairer skin and Sharper Facial Features.....

Indians from other parts donot share this opinion, such as me being Bengali


You asked for it..Now don't flame me

Looks are overrated in men (speaking as a man here).

Give me a vicious fighter any day.

Probably only the Jats have both.

Then look at the Kashmiris ...

Do you really think we would mourn their going?

Coming back to your hypothesis, what we lost in genetic fighting stock was not very great to begin with.

And the good fighting stock they have, was never really ours to begin with.

Cheers, Doc

 

[bananarepublic]

You mean Indus Valley rather than Indus Valley Civilization right? I doubt the Historians were suggesting that Huns were present in pre-2000 BC

not exactly huns but their original ancestors dont remember the name exactly but they were the ones originally settling in the stretch of central asia to the east of turkey and west of china

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Looks are overrated in men (speaking as a man here).

Give me a vicious fighter any day.

Probably only the Jats have both.

Then look at the Kashmiris ...

Do you really think we would mourn their going?

Coming back to your hypothesis, what we lost in genetic fighting stock was not very great to begin with.

And the good fighting stock they have, was never really ours to begin with.

Cheers, Doc

Loss of good-looking women I meant mainly..Loss of good-looking men also meant loss of sperm to create the good-looking women of next generation..That's how people think


@bananarepublic ...You should perhaps re-consult your sources..From what I have seen the Huns, Turks,Mongols cannot trace their origins beyond the Xiongnu Confederacy and that was in the 3rd century BC

 

[padamchen]

Loss of good-looking women I meant mainly..Loss of good-looking men also meant loss of sperm to create the good-looking women of next generation..That's how people think.



@bananarepublic ...You should perhaps re-consult your sources..From what I have seen the Huns, Turks,Mongols cannot trace their origins beyond the Xiongnu Confederacy and that was in the 3rd century BC

I agree on the women.

But I find beauty in most womanly gene pools. Some are of course denser than others.

But there is no doubt that the loss of Pakistan meant we lost a lot of future potential of diluting our not very good looking more melanized gene pools.

Cheers, Doc

 

[bananarepublic]

Loss of good-looking women I meant mainly..Loss of good-looking men also meant loss of sperm to create the good-looking women of next generation..That's how people think


@bananarepublic ...You should perhaps re-consult your sources..From what I have seen the Huns, Turks,Mongols cannot trace their origins beyond the Xiongnu Confederacy and that was in the 3rd century BC

I will skim over some books and get to you on this subject..

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

I agree on the women.

But I find beauty in most womanly gene pools. Some are of course denser than others.

But there is no doubt that the loss of Pakistan meant we lost a lot of future potential of diluting our not very good looking more melanized gene pools.

Cheers, Doc

Didnot get your last sentence..Could you please elaborate it or reframe it?

 

[padamchen]

Didnot get your last sentence..Could you please elaborate it or reframe it?

We lost the genetic fair and lovely needed.

I could actually wax lyrical about Pakistanis and Indian Muslims here. In terms of genetics and looks.

To be honest, Indians really aren't a very good looking people.

Some Indians are. But if you see the percentage split, the general impression people have abroad as well as one living here internally is being surrounded by not very good looking people.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

We lost the genetic fair and lovely needed.

I could actually wax lyrical about Pakistanis and Indian Muslims here. In terms of genetics and looks.

To be honest, Indians really aren't a very good looking people.

Some Indians are. But if you see the percentage split, the general impression people have abroad as well as one living here internally is being surrounded by not very good looking people.

Cheers, Doc

Parasitic Disease Load, lack of Iodized Salt, Malnutrition,adamant Vegterianism, Pollution to blame...But the greatest loss to Indian looks has been the persistent female foeticide by the fairest of Indians for the last 30 years...Those striking Facial phenotypes from the Northwest are vanishing by the year...I donot see those Iranic looking Sikhs anymore in the more youthful cohorts

 

[padamchen]

Parasitic Disease Load, lack of Iodized Salt, Malnutrition,adamant Vegterianism, Pollution to blame...But the greatest loss to Indian looks has been the persistent female foeticide by the fairest of Indians for the last 30 years...Those striking Facial phenotypes from the Northwest are vanishing by the year...I donot see those Iranic looking Sikhs anymore in the more youthful cohorts

You look at a Jatt Sikh in Punjab and then you see some of the specimens we have here in Pune ... Nanded Sikhs they are called.

Good point on the Rajasthanis and Jats.

@ranjeet @Sam. @paritosh

Cheers, Doc

 

[Kabira]

Parasitic Disease Load, lack of Iodized Salt, Malnutrition,adamant Vegterianism, Pollution to blame...But the greatest loss to Indian looks has been the persistent female foeticide by the fairest of Indians for the last 30 years...Those striking Facial phenotypes from the Northwest are vanishing by the year...I donot see those Iranic looking Sikhs anymore in the more youthful cohorts

I was in UK last week and Sikh girls are over rated and relatively bad looking in comparision to average punjabi muslim girls. Indian punjab lost all the good looking people when Arains moved to Pakistan as they tend to be purest indo-aryans. But it also gained pretty hindu khatri girls but as it stand now they too have slowly lost their looks with time and mixing.

At the end it wouldn’t matter as pretty girls are like small % and eventually they will be lost in sea of subcontinent billions if mixing was rampant in hypothetical united Bharat.

I will also explain later how so called Iranic is original phenotype of IVC people and have less to do with aryan ancestry as its believed by many.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Nope mixing doesnot really happen like that...How a mixed society looks..one should look to South America......The hardest working,most enterprising and the most adventurous of men would end up with the Fairest looking maidens.....and their sons in turn will marry the fairest of maidens...The poorest are roughly comprised of the darkest skin underclass...No matter how you cut and slice a society and organize it (Hindu ,Islamic Sharia,Communism,Hardcore Capitalism,Social Welfare mixed with Capitalism), Human Biological tendencies and forces will always come to the forefront......The Biggest currencies of a man in Society is his IQ and his testosterone...The Biggest currencies of a woman in Society are her looks and number of her fertile years still remaining.

 

[niaz]

In my opinion beauty has nothing whatsoever to do with the skin colour; it is a combination of the proportionate features and body (not too skinny but leaning towards the voluptuous side) and the charm /coquettishness which in Urdu is called ‘Adaa’. Akbar Allahabadi in the poem addressed to his son ‘Ishratee’ writes:

"mom kee putliyon par aisee tabeea't pighlee
chaman-e-Hind kee pariyon kee adaa bhool gaye"

(You have such a crush on the wax dolls of Europe that you have forgotten coquetry of the fairies of the garden of India).

Growing up in Sargodha we used to hear a lot about beauty of the girls of Lahore. Government College Lahore in 1958 had co-education, Kashmiri girls had lighter skin, but overall I did not find Lahori girls physically any prettier than those from Sargodha & Lyallpur (Faisalabd), the two cities I knew intimately. Lahori girls were however more charming, mainly because of access to better education and having a better dress sense.

Now as an old man of 74, please take it from me; beauty really is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Personally I like women who are bit heavily built but still tall (5"7+), that is tall women who eat heavily but still do a lot of lifts and squats...That gives them much bigger gluts and an arching muscular back....I still remember seeing a much darker Egyptian girl (like a darker Sindhi/Von Luschan 20) like that who would out-babe the daintier and shorter of the Germans...anyways talking like that about female beauty is not good on an open forum, especially for married men..that's why people tend to limit female beauty discussion to skin colour and facial features

 

[padamchen]

Not sure what exactly he is trying to say here man. Help me out a little. Is he trying to say that Jats want a merger with Pakistan to replenish the female population from across the border to make up for the lack of numbers in states like Haryana/Rajasthan?

Sorry bro. Read your post over lunch and completely forgot about it (was it kadak rotis with a dab of oil with hands today, so no spoon).

What he meant was that few pockets of fair good looking people we have, are systematically skewing their male-female ratio. To the point where I've heard Jat guys are increasingly "importing" brides from other states, even the north-east? Simply because too few Jat girls to marry.

Now in a way that will spread the good looks around. But it would be short lived and pale within a few generations. The darker not so good looking gene pool being MUCH larger.

The ideal way to go about it would be for the Jats to keep producing fair good looking kids, both boys and girls, and those in turn to keep procreating as well, to increase the fair good looking gene pool, and SOME Jat boys and girls from each generation to marry into the larger gene pool.

That way you don't dilute the good looks within a few generations, and theoretically have a never ending supply to slowly beautify the rest. Albeit VERY slowly, if at all.

Dont know about girls, but some of your guys look Parsi. Fair, red. Light brown/reddish hair. Built the same. One of my best buddies in college, a batch junior, was a Jat, and looked a near copy of me. Could easily pass off among Parsis as a Parsi (as long as he kept his Haryanvi mouth shut).

When my son was born, barely a few months old, he and his girlfriend came over home to meet us and do sagan to our boy for the first time.

He was holding him in his arms and to this day my wife and I laugh when we remember the look of confusion on our baby's face, wide eyes, smiles, go goo sounds, and with both tiny hands touching Jat's face all over. Have a photo of that scene as well.

@Juggernaut_is_here

Cheers, Doc