The increasing Might of IAF: From a PAF perspective

[Umair Nawaz]

Kindly back up your claim with facts like I did..show me a "neutral source " which says India had started the war..man people are adamant I say..mods do you like to teach your fellow citizen about truth..

Kiddo here is yr answer of that so called ''neutral source'' Read below post.

Wrong place to look for facts.
Suggest you get off your self eleqoency high horse and read up.
For starters.. the Indo-Pak air war of 1965 by Samir Chopra is a good start.

 

[President]

Kiddo here is yr answer of that so called ''neutral source'' Read below post.

Kid-if you have ever read this book..you will realize that in it ..it was never written than India started the war..before starting any discussion think through your mind first

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Kid-if you have ever read this book..you will realize that in it ..it was never written than India started the war..before starting any discussion think through your mind first

Ok so im kid now

So my Great Great Great Uncle,

Like i said information is gained by research not just reading an individual's book. In west people usually write books to share their opinion n understanding of matters. Which can be right in same way can be wrong.

 

[President]

Ok so im kid now

So my Great Great Great Uncle,

Like i said information is gained by research not just reading an individual's book. In west people usually write books to share their opinion n understanding of matters. Which can be right in same way can be wrong.

you are quoting your neutral source and you are refuting it ....just grow up kid.

 

[shuntmaster]

Pakistani sources suggest that Indian losses in 1965 were in the range of 59–110 and Pakistani losses were around 18–43. The Indian Air Force's attrition rate (1.5%) was lower than the Pakistani attrition rate (1.82%). Arguably this indicates that had the war continued, the PAF would have found it increasingly difficult to sustain operations at the same level. Nevertheless, a similar argument can be made about the IAF also, although it did have a significant size advantage that might have proved telling if the war had been prolonged.
Another factor which makes it difficult to determine the outcome of the 1965 air war is the issue of aircraft lost in the air in air-to-air combat or to ground fire as opposed to aircraft lost on the ground due to bombing. Indian sources claimed that a large number of Indian aircraft losses occurred on the ground during the attacks on Kalaikkunda and Pathankot—up to 60 per cent by some accounts.Very few IAF losses were actually from air-to-air combat. Most losses were due to IAF's foolishness of keeping the air assets in unprotected open areas in the airfields. They didn't repeat the same mistake in 1971.
Also, in 1965 IAF committed more than double the sorties than PAF. In 1965 PAf was not able to gain air dominance over any part of India, whereas in 1971 IAF was able to complete air dominance over East Pakistan.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

you are quoting your neutral source and you are refuting it ..anyways no grudges here..just grow up kid.

Where did i done that?

Its u who is confused here.

 

[baajey]

Mr Kid from jungle

Whose *** is actually burning here is being seen by everyone.

U dont need to advocate that.

In 1965 Pak won that war.

India has attacked Pakistan by crossing international borders in the 3am in morning of 6th september 1965.

Pakistan had defended herself from enemy and denied it to capture its main objectives of capturing strategic points n cities.

The land u gained was returned back to us when UN intervened in to war after 17 days of fighting.

The indian myth of op. Gibraltar is a total lie. Its an excuse of Indian Army to save its face from defeat n starting war.
Even in this 21st century u have failed to prove that operation of such kind had ever took place.

Even Yr PM lal bahadur shastri had an heart attack when he heard that india is forced to give back occupied land back to pakistan.

Even yr army after just 17 days of war had depleted its resources and was unable to fight longer.

Our main objective was to make sure the enemy dont gain strategic points and cities in war n we achieved it very well yes u gained some land but its obvious that an enemy whose numerically vastly superior will definitely gain some mass but what can be done is that whatever it gains its of no use for its nation and army by denying it to capture the important locations in the defending country.

the highlighted part is debatable.

 

[Norphisor]

In 1965 India came to capture lahore.
Pakistan defended itself successfully. So Pakistan won the match. That's it.

 

[Contrarian]

Incorrect myths enforce incorrect views.
I wonder how an airforce with its major fleet of a lesser quality(Sabre vs Hunter.. the Hunter was superior).. is being projected in sheer idiocy by state propoganda through school books and bloggers as better quality.

THE ONLY edge the PAF had over the IAF was the Aim-9B... thats it.
Even in that ..the PAF performed pathetically to what it could have actually accomplished.. the 65 air war plan was a failure.

in contrast.. to all the ludicrous claims made by the so called "enthusiasts" who dont seem to bother to read up on books written by actual military personnel.. would find that the PAF actually did better in 71 in terms of sortie rate and objective holding than it did in 65.

It is a question of what IAF did.
IAF acted like a flying club in '65 instead of an Air Force.

The transition from that to an effective Force in 71, ie within 6 years is remarkable.

And the next major transition for IAF has been after 2001, since when IAF has started Air exercises with Western Countries. That exposed IAF to the way and ethos of the likes of USAF in materials management, spares management, logistics tail and what not. It changed a lot of views within IAF circles - and IAF has been trying to emulate that very hard.
PAF has always had access to such concepts and first hand experience over the long decades.

 

[Secur]

The two countries have made contradictory claims of combat losses during the war and few neutral sources have verified the claims of either country. The PAF claimed it shot down 104 IAF planes and lost 19 of its own, while the IAF claimed it shot down 73 PAF planes and lost 59.[42] According to one independent source, the PAF flew 86 F-86 Sabres, 10 F-104 Starfighters and 20 B-57 Canberras in a parade soon after the war was over. Thus disproving the IAF's claim of downing 73 PAF fighters, which at the time constituted nearly the entire Pakistani front-line fighter force.[43]

Can somebody verify the independent source ?

 

[kurup]

In 1965 India came to capture lahore.
Pakistan defended itself successfully. So Pakistan won the match. That's it.

Read about Operation Gibraltar and Grand Slam .

 

[haviZsultan]

What I fear more than India's growing military arsenal is its increasing assertiveness globally. Things at home for the Indians are at peace and therefore they have begun to look outside. This is making India even more than the aggressive bullying neighbour that we Pakistanis percieve it as.

India is trying, (albeit not fully successfully) to become a global power and gives every indication that it is going to play a role in global politics. Furthermore look at its efforts. It is readying to send a team to Mars while we Pakistanis don't even have a proper space program yet.

India will bully Pakistan more because they are increasingly gaining power and influence. They will send their RAW agents to spread havoc in Pakistan and we Pakistanis if we do not deal with our militant threat effectively, will be left to fearful of terrorism to even resist them as they frame innocent people on false terror charges. Our agencies, they will keep suspecting their own people and India will get away with every conceivable crime.

We Pakistanis need to resolve our issues. Pakistan needs to eliminate the Taliban and atleast stop the constant attacks that occur in her territory. Then we might be able to bring our attention back to India again.

 

[My-Analogous]

Actually in 65's war both countries fail to achieve their target. First Pakistan and then India. Rest is all bullshit

 

[Storm Force]

The indians are along way AWAY from being a mighty air force.

They have huge resources and OPEN access to TECHNOLOGY from both the Russians and the WEST ie USA & Euoope.

YET their lethargic red taped fuelled attitude has left them vulnerable and unprepared for a REAL WAR.

its shocking to think today in 2014 the IAF stil flys 300 mig21/27 COMBINED a cold war relic.

Despite more than adequate support from ISRAEL & others the TEJAS LCA is stil at IOC one.

You want to see a mighty AIR FORCE i suggest we look at the Israelis , saudis or the Japanease.

IAF might make a MIGHT air power one day they have the means BUT lack the vision and leaders to make this happen.

 

[Slayer786]

Yeah.... Pakistan lost 18 aircraft in 1965 ?! Funny author. Stopped reading there.

Well truth sometimes is funny. Why dont you read the book written by John Fricker, an English author, called 'Battle for Pakistan'.
If you found this true article to be funny, then you will find the englishmen's book to be hilarious.