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The growing agitation of Pakistanis against USA

haviZsultan

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A recent survey conducted by Pew Global Attitudes (a project of a research center in Washington) in Pakistan has proven that the 64% of the people in Pakistan see USA as one of the greatest threats to Pakistan. On the other hand only about 9% believe that the US can ever be Pakistan’s ally. However 70% of the Pakistanis who were questioned are absolutely against the Taliban and seek their utter elimination. Another survey conducted for the international broadcaster Al Jazeera by Gallup Pakistan found that 59 percent of Pakistanis felt the greatest threat to the country was the United States rather than the Taliban.

As the report suggests Pakistanis despise the USA but do not side with the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Generally Pakistanis view US unfavourably but they see the militants negatively too.

Unfortunately the Americans cannot come to understand why Pakistanis see them as their foremost enemy rather than the terrorists. On the other hand Pakistanis feel they have been constantly betrayed despite seeing the Americans as allies. They believe they have been used to accomplish USA’s strategic goals and interests in the region and have then been abandoned.

A look at history

The Taliban were formed, supported and funded by the USA in the 1980’s
in order to drive away the Soviets from Afghanistan and offset the defeat they suffered to the Communists in the Vietnam War. According to newly opened CIA files USA wanted the Soviets to intervene in Afghanistan and aid was being transferred to Anti communist elements since July 1979 which was before the Soviets had officially invaded.

Pakistan was not always keen to join the war and did so upon USA’s insistence. Sources even claim that Zia Ul Haq did not want to get involved in the war but many promises of opening up military and economic assistance were offered to President Zia by American diplomats to convince him to join the war. This and the promise of a long lasting relationship with the USA convinced Pakistanis.

However by directly interfering in neighbouring Afghanistan on the behest of American urging Pakistan suffered over 120 incidents of terrorism which killed many citizens. One such bombing was the Islamabad depot bombings which were blamed on Najibullah’s Soviet backed Afghan government. USA suffered no losses as they had no troops on the ground and were too far away from the region.

Not surprisingly when the war was over Pakistan was not needed and the country was abandoned. In 1990 military and economic ties were cut off with Pakistan under the Presler Amendment which required proof that Pakistan did not possess a nuclear weapon. Tests by India on the other hand which were actually conducted much earlier were ignored and no sanctions were slapped on India.

Pakistanis also felt betrayed because America itself has one of the largest stockpiles of nuclear weapons in the World and is the only Nation to have used them.

Pakistan’s Nuclear Tests

India conducted its first surprise nuclear test in 1974 known as the “Smiling Buddha.” USA turned a blind eye to the first test but India’s second test in 1998 which followed a similar test by Pakistan almost immediately received international condemnation. Initially sanctions were imposed on both India and Pakistan.


However after a few months the sanctions on India were removed while those on Pakistan remained. Certain military sanctions specially relating to nuclear technology continue till today however no such sanctions are being imposed on India. The differential treatment annoys Pakistanis as India has 10 times Pakistan’s population and is much larger than Pakistan. The military as well is larger than Pakistan’s own with a ratio of 3:1

Furthermore Pakistanis cannot understand why USA signed a nuclear deal with India but is not willing to sign the exact same deal with Islamabad which has sent clear signals that it wants a peaceful nuclear deal with the USA for power generation purposes. Pakistan is facing crippling power shortages that are affecting the daily life of its citizens. In major cities people have to make do without 6-10 hours of electricity in a day.

The relationship today


Americans believe that the aid they are giving Pakistan in the War on Terror is more than enough and is a message to Pakistan to forget the past and move on. However what they don’t seem to understand is that the losses of Pakistan in the WOT have crossed $35.5 Billion (this is an old article: it is now $80 Billion) in damages to Pakistan. The aid does not compensate Pakistan for the losses given that the $11 Billion in aid given as yet is not even a quarter of this figure.

To aggravate things further much of the aid given to Pakistan has still not been delivered and much of it will be eaten up by the administrative costs of the US embassy.

In addition the Americans have expressed no sympathy for the 8000 Pakistani civilians and 2500 (40,000+ deaths till today) soldiers killed in a highly unpopular war but have always pushed Pakistan to do more as if it were their colony.

Many Pakistanis as a result believe that USA is supporting terrorism in their country. The fact that the US has released several Taliban commanders from its custody such as Abdullah Mehsud who have attacked Pakistani Nationals soon after their release has further supported this belief. The latest addition to the long list of such commanders is Mehdi-Mohammed Ghazali who was captured in Pakistan recently and is a Swedish National released from Guantanamo Bay.

The American media has a way of aggravating the situation and pouring salt to the fresh wounds of the Nation. The suggestion that Pakistani nukes may fall in the hands of terrorists only fuels rage and in turn is seen as a scheme to take possession of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons. On the other hand the constant campaigns of accusations aimed at Pakistan’s premier intelligence agency the ISI and the military are seen as an attempt to isolate and destroy the military and ISI so that it cannot stop CIA’s designs in the region.

When it is stated that Pakistan is not serious in the War on Terror despite the death of thousands of its own people it also fuels Anti Americanism. The Pakistanis have now become even more suspicious of the USA because of these media campaigns.

Due to the American policies towards Pakistan in the past and those that still continue today many Pakistanis simply see the terrorist organizations as American agents. For the majority of Pakistanis the USA and Taliban are two sides of the same coin.

Is USA losing Pakistan?


The very attitude of the USA towards Pakistan leaves lingering resentment and rage amongst Pakistanis. It does nothing but make terrorist organizations more powerful.

Where yesterday only a section of the population believed no productive ties could ever develop between Pakistan and USA today this phenomenon is noticeable even amongst the moderates as they see the USA as their sworn enemy. Pakistani analysts now believe it is time for Pakistan to take a tougher stance with the USA and design a policy that stops the tide of rising extremism and ensures Pakistan is not seen as an American lackey.

Most Pakistanis are already suggesting that either the Pakistanis take a tougher stance towards the USA and demand to be treated with the respect they deserve or withdraw from the War completely declaring themselves neutral to both the USA and the Afghan Taliban.

Whatever the case Pakistanis are now adamant to stand up to the United States and present themselves as an independent Nation that has enough spine to say no to the Americans when needed and guard its own interests. US is on the path to losing Pakistan much like it lost Iran in the 1980's.


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Now this is an old article I wrote but do note it is a valuable discussion topic. Our relationship with US.
Here we can look at a number of things:
1) Is it beneficial? (I believe the article looks at this to some extent and my belief about this is clear.
2) If it is not then what are the alternative solutions and their possible shortfalls.
3) If we are talking about developing a more beneficial or neutral relationship with US how might the country react.

The link to this article is here on Havi Sultan's webspace-do comment or rate please.
@FaujHistorian this is a continuation of our debate but I will start from 2 to answer Muse's question.
 
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U.S. doesn't Care about Pakistan . Is past decade not enough to open your eyes .

They don't care you hate them or love them . Non of their concern .

Don't be that rude...U never break a news of someones Breakup on his face with such Cruelty.....U shld tell them ..he(in this Case US) will always care for u ..and want u to be happy...find some happiness if u can....
Time for my nxt Chintaka chinta chinta tah:chilli:
 
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Recently I said the following in a response to @FaujHistorian:

Dear dear dear HaviZ,

I so respect your posts. But I am just flabbergasted as to why on earth would you condemn our 200 million people to the curse of sanctions?

There is something like living with honor which no one taught us, thats why.

Our rupee to dollar ratio is 100 and we are crying every minute due to the sky rocketing prices.

You are even more cynical than me. You are right. But that doesn't reduce the disrespect we suffered at their hands.

Iranian Mullah Hullah Ayatullah have driven their economy to the ground

Right now their ryal trades or hovers around 12,000 to a dollar

At least they are standing up for what they believe in. There is an option of throwing your interests in the bin and following in quiet subservience while there is another of raising your head and living with pride. We are being blamed, disrespected despite being in the war. Why not get out of it then. The Taliban are against us, the US is, India is, and we've made an Afghanistan that is hostile... fun times.

They are only surving because they are underselling their god given oil to the few low-balling leaches from around the world.

And you want to align with them and even using a childish argument using nukes.

It can be used to pressure Americans into reassessing the role they have played in our issues.

What an awful awful awful stance. Please.
such an ill-thought stance will increase our misery 100000 times and you will not be here with us to suffer through it. You will be gone to the same USA or one of its allies and live there comfortably.

I am not directing policy. But if I was I would prefer to stay in a jhopri to create a precedent.

Please move away from this Qiaymati shaitani stance.

Coming back to the so-called "mal-treatment" by USA?

Well USA did slap on our wrist 3 times (60s, 80s, and 90s) when we did what they begged us not to do.

We are not a child to be slapped. We did not toe the line and wished to guard our interests so they slapped us and it wasn't on the wrist.

I don't remember how we are forsaking these interests:
1) Nuke deal with India but refused to Pakistan
2) Davis kills 2 Pakistanis and escapes. There is no proof of Afia being a terrorist and still in jail and will be there forever.
3) Fazlullah hiding in Kunar. Faqir Mohammed's (Ex-Bajaur Chief's) bases in Afghanistan.
4) US refusal to condemn India for the Siachen incursion but raising an outcry on the Kargil one which was made by fauji's after the Siachen debacle when they took 1000 miles of our land.
5) USA's offer to sell better quality F16's to India compared to what they sold us.
6) Framing of Pakistani innocents in the name of terrorism-Seen it, researched it.
7) Maltreatment of Pakistanis in airports and hounding of Pakistani political Organizations in north America. Even secular ones. Yes-this is the only thing they are good at.
8) Support for dictators in Pakistani land. 3 major ones had their backing. Zia was the one who Islamicized Pakistan with their blessing in case you did not notice.
9) Presler Amendment. When we were not needed by USA anymore. Cold war over, Afghanistan in ruins but of course the Soviets disgraced as they wanted that is what came. Military and economic cooperation CUT and mark my words IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN-200% chance and I bet on my life when this war on terror is over this will come again. They will harass us even more than they are now.
10) The blame Pakistan suffers on a daily basis. Pakistan is held responsible for every failure. I believe you think we are responsible. Partly I agree, yes. But you do not know about the successes, Ramzir yousuf, Baradar, Khalid Sheikh (top 9/11 terrorist) were all capture by us.

11) Pakistan counting on US support and not getting any in 1971. Weak point? Leave that then. I think it is too. But consider the rest.
12) Add to this the Indian nuclear test smiling Buddha in 74 being ignored by the US while our military and economy being sanctioned.
13) Add to this the framing of Kashmiri activist Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai in a false case as an ISI agent in another attempt to malign ISI


And I already explained what a hypocritical country Solomon is from and what things it has done that destroy any moral standing it has at all.

Other than that,

USA has fed us through food research (Maxi-Pak wheat that changed the fate of so many of us)
USA has paid the asking price for anything they asked us to do
USA has brought up our military to a level among the top in our region
USA has trained or had them trained at one of the facilities in the West pretty much all our top level scientists.

If they are this benevolent then its time to re compensate us of $80 Billion we lost in the war on terror. Lets see their generosity. Till now I have only heard Panetta's orgasms and his threats or blame. When those end I will be eager to deal with the Americans.

I agree some Pakistanis have benefited. Not all though.

And yet you keep on repeating my dear dear dear sir, the propaganda of the Talib-bozo islamists.

I am a sworn enemy of every Islamist but I also admit that they have constantly throughout history been supported by our so-called allies-Ibn Abdul Wahab received massive support from British empire, and these terrorist commanders once sat with the Americans and Haqqani shook hands with the president. Bin Ladin sat in their embassy in Karachi.

I suppose it didn't occur to that president then that the Haqqani man he was shaking hands with had blood on his hands-or perhaps it did but that blood was cheap since it was Pashtun/Afghan blood he had spilled. Since you do not consider Wazirs your people you will not understand this point. I consider Pashtuns my people and work for my lands unity-therefore I am a Pakistani Nationalist.

But I could learn a lesson here. I have called many others the same word including Zarvan and now see how annoying it is.

That's not good

my dear that's not good

for country to be pitted against a super power.

Thank you for your kind consideration.[/QUOTE]

You fear them but a strong foreign policy is often better than an extremely weak one or in our case none at all but one of quiet subservience.

When a colleague of mine told me of a Sufferers Witness case of a young woman from Punjab who was continuously being raped by her cousin and refusing to report it to the police because of "family honor" but just wanted the activist on the phone to give her some help convincing him to stop. I told my colleague she is a hopeless case. But the women's rights activists are mad. She said she has to break loose. Say NO. We are that woman.

Just because that cousin is strong we should not let him bully into submission. Strenghthen our foreign policy, everything falls into place. We don't do it Pakistan may fall apart.
 
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In some discussions Indians can be an annoyance....

Let us discuss our policy issues here, you are free to disagree. And the factions that later would and even today make up the Taliban were supported by US such as Haqqani and Hekmatyar.Bin Laden even visited US embassy and Haqqani has a photo session with the president.
 
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Mr. Havizsultan Sir:-

Let me go into the Nuclear Agreement alone.

a) First of all Americans unlike 1980's or Early 1990's (1990-1995) Don't follow Pakistan-India Policy. As former US Secretary pointed out "India and Pakistan are two different countries with two different Policies and Proliferation Records"

Regarding Kargil and Siachen:-

a) Siachen was fought on Disputed area and Kargil was fought on Indian Side of LOC. The west had no Locus standi to Intervene in Siachen Sector. Pakistan Strategic Affairs experts have also revealed many times Pakistan also planned to capture Peaks in Siachen Sector before India.
 
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HaviZsultan

Excellent post _ so what must be done now? How much longer, if at all, should we continue to barter away our autonomy of action in return for US "aid"?
@muse I am glad we reached this phase where we have identified the problem and are now moving towards a solution. The first stage is accepting that our interests are being grossly ignored while we are in the relationship with the US.

When?: The answer to your question is it can start now, today actually, if our government develops a spine. I personally believe we shouldn't say we are cutting ties but just say we want to have a neutral role. That means no bases in Pakistan, NATO goods charged exorbitant prices as surcharge to fix road damage and compensate drivers killed along the way to Landi Kotal. Also refusal to help them in any way (including with drones and Shamsi) unless absolutely necessary-simply in other words disengagement from the global war on terror and neutrality in this regard. However focus has to shift to Hakimullah Maseed whose power should greatly have been reduced as he cannot justify his attacks by using America.

About me: Now we do this. But what course of action are we to take? Let me start by saying that I am a Sunni and have no spiritual connection to Iran whatsoever nor am I a communist with a link to China-I am a secularist who has lived the latter years of my life almost in every way a Canadian does-though I refuse Canadian citizenship and am staunchly Pakistani in thinking and ideology-it is just my ways that contradict that sometimes. My point in saying this is that I should actually be on their side but must have seen their true faces to be saying this.

Since I was a child I have been opening up newspapers and reading articles, people think I am mad but I remember stats and figures and things in political arena that happened long ago. This has given me a very solid grip on world affairs. The 12 points I mentioned in that post most people either forget or ignore purposely. I remember and all Pakistanis should.

The consequences: Now after we declare neutrality we should be prepared for consequences. In this @FaujHistorian was right. In 2009 18.2% of our exports went to US. US is a superpower and it is mad, cruel and bloodthirsty and will do anything to save one American including killing 200 Afghan nationals for it. Proof being the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nuclear weapons. It is the only country to have committed genocide and escaped on account of a powerful media and modern technology. They will cause issues. We can take a lesson from the past-how they treated the Siachen/Kargil and 1998 nuke tests between India/Pakistan in both cases giving them preferential treatment (no presler amendment on India but a ban on arms sales and economic sanctions on Pakistan though they came running to us when the towers fell)... all of this is going to come back again as the glue that binds us together will have fallen apart.

We are just a tool to be used and discarded and we learned that in 1980's. This will happen again. Either we can break ties now or USA is going to do it and cast the blame for the failure of the war on terror on us and mark my words Niaz in either way it is going to happen, now or later. ISI, army and everything else will be blamed. It is to blame partly but what about the role US played. Everyone else is promoted as an enemy and the 4 Billion US $ pumped into mujahideen which later matured into Taliban forgotten here.

Pakistan will be sanctioned, Pakistan will be punished and it will be bullied. We are seeing the signs in the US-India nuke deal, the offer of better F16s than Pakistan. This is despite the last nuclear deal with Canada resulted in India using that technology to create a nuclear bomb.

Furthermore those exports can suffer. US is an insidious country that rules by force. Declaring neutrality comes with costs. USAID too stops operations.

The solution: The first thing we must do is reduce our dependence on the US. This is phase 1. 1) Initially we can start by trying to find new markets for our exports because in the event of us quitting their alliance they may increase tarriffs and create hurdles. We currently export about 18% of our goods to US (15.8 billion in 2012)

2) We have lots of defence contracts and a lot of components still have to be delivered. We have to ensure we make no new deals and initiate no new ventures with the US. Perhaps even wait an year for things we bought to be delivered. This field could suffer. Furthermore we have to begin concentrating on China, Russia and ingenious production. India is working on a 5th generation fighter.

Now we move to phase 2 of the solution. 1) Develop contacts with Iran. Now this might not go down well with a lot of people and even I don't like theocracies/mullahcracies. But I can only agree with their foreign policy. I mean what is a nation supposed to do? Even if they are seeking nukes, Iraq tried to build WMD's, US is in 2 neighboring countries (possibly 3 if Shamsi was used to spy on Iran) and is the only state to have used them and Israel has them as well as neighboring Pakistan. The negative point may be we may become too influenced by the system present there. I favor secularism so I am worried about the rights situation.

2) Offer China military bases in Pakistan in return for favoring us in UN and in all foreign policy matters. For example Iran was sanctioned to the teeth-but it could not have happened had the Chinese vetoed it. That veto has a lot of power. China may be a very important member and we must lean on it for our relationship. It is the bulwark of this idea. I would not have presented it even if China hadn't been an ally.

Optional: 3) I say optional because it will not go down well. Adopt secularism. Western nations sympathize with other secular states but I know the minds of my people still equate secularism with anti-Islamism which isn't true. In any case if it can't be done give people dignity, rights, freedom, justice and stop wrong and injustices whereever we see them. Most importantly deal with terrorism which should become easier after this since TTP will lose its backing since we are no more officially in the WOT.

Phase 3: 1) Become more assertive and defend national interest. This comes with being free of the US yoke. Demand things from the US we should be given. Recompensation for losses in war on terror. Aafia Siddiqui case. Everything. Present in the media how US has misused us. A knowledgable person can destroy the US narrative in moments. We suffered more in terrorism than we received aid so the narrative we are earning something is false and broken but not a single Pakistani challenges it. It is time to stand on our own feet. This should be the last phase.

Do add something Niaz bhai if you wish it. This is my solution.
 
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It does not have to be about "break up" and these kinds of characterizations - The entire relationship with the US is one of dependency, and this dependency is totally, entirely false -- we are constantly being told by Pakistani politicians that the economy is a basket case and only the US can help secure more IFI loans - and lets face it we buy it -- Reality is that the Pakistani economy is structured to benefit and function for the politicians and their cronies: in the name of the 'Awam" and other idiot propositions the politicians can label "Islamic" and "Welfare", the Pakistani economy is kept the captive of the political and military elite.

Some Pakistanis will not be able to accept this reality, however, it is because of the nature of the economy that Pakistan continues to barter away it's autonomy, it's freedom of action, not just in international affairs but also regional affairs and within Pakistan itself.

Can the Pakistani economy be changed? So long as "Democracy" is treated as a religion by some and not a means to an end, it CANNOT! Can the Pakistani economy be changed without a change in the politics or the nature of politics in Pakistan?? It CANNOT!

Some may suggest that such an eventuality is, well, extreme - in the same way as surgery to save a life is extreme??

The US is not only one of the foremost threat external and in many instances, internal threat to Pakistan, but will continue to be such a threat for a long time to come till the nation state of Pakistan is extinguished -- so what can Pakistan do about this threat?? It must reform itself, to reassert and prioritize the survival, safety and prosperity of the Pakistani people and it's very reason for existence - this in reality means that it must create an economy that affords Pakistanis the opportunity to create lives of dignity, an open economy.

So what kind of politics can help create such an economy?? 90 days of reform? Million man marches? Technocrats? Military?
 
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People of Pakistan are simply sick of US meddling in local affairs by riding on shoulders of Pakistan, supporting corrupt and incompetent leaders through US-AID and creating one after another challenge.
 
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From your views i dont believe you have still learnt. You are merely trying to substitute US with China.
The same expectations that you used to have of US and the same mistakes - giving them bases in your country, etc, you are willing to do with China.

Till the time you learn that NO foreign nation is your ally, you will suffer cyclically.
 
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I am sure China will not play the US - that's just the way they roll, so to speak -- many people just think that China wants to replace the US, this is just not reality - look, Who does China do more trade with, Pakistan or India? Has Pakistan used the opportunity to increase trade with China and compete with Indian trade?

So, to imagine that Pakistanis, especially the likes of Havi or me want China to replace the US, is to misrepresent - the only solution out of this is to open the Pakistani economy to ordinary Pakistanis, the feudal politicians would rather that all of Pakistan burn than do that - that means the nature of Pakistani politics must change or rather be allowed to change - so bye bye "Democracy"?? depends on what you say "Democracy" is, if you mean representative government to create an economy of opportuity, then certainly not - if you mean a continuation of Kleptocracy, then yeah, sure.
 
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I am sure China will not play the US - that's just the way they roll, so to speak -- many people just think that China wants to replace the US, this is just not reality - look, Who does China do more trade with, Pakistan or India? Has Pakistan used the opportunity to increase trade with China and compete with Indian trade?

So, to imagine that Pakistanis, especially the likes of Havi or me want China to replace the US, is to misrepresent - the only solution out of this is to open the Pakistani economy to ordinary Pakistanis, the feudal politicians would rather that all of Pakistan burn than do that - that means the nature of Pakistani politics must change or rather be allowed to change - so bye bye "Democracy"?? depends on what you say "Democracy" is, if you mean representative government to create an economy of opportuity, then certainly not - if you mean a continuation of Kleptocracy, then yeah, sure.

Yet Havi mentioned allowing military bases to China on Pakistani soil. That is an absolute NO NO. If you are willing to do such things in quid pro quo, you expect China to stand up for you.

These exectations will be badly dashed the day China's interests change, just like US's did.
 
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Yet Havi mentioned allowing military bases to China on Pakistani soil. That is an absolute NO NO. If you are willing to do such things in quid pro quo, you expect China to stand up for you.

These exectations will be badly dashed the day China's interests change, just like US's did.

Well, lets let Pakistanis decide what is and is not a " NO NO" - Pakistan and China are neighbors, share a border, the dynamic is very different from that between Pakistani and US, though you make a valid point that the interests of nations change, however, the interests of nations that share a border and a friendly border at that, well, that is a different dynamic isn't it?
 
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@haviZsultan Hope, you won't mind me answering and giving reason about the points you raised

1) Nuke deal with India but refused to Pakistan

Civil Nuclear Deal was part of changed Foreign Policy regarding India to make strategic ties after Cold war was over and Pakistan lost significance to US when Soviet Union fell. It was initiated by Bill Clinton and Bush carried it. 9/11 brought India and US closer as India has been victim and raising Terrorism as International headache for entire world but no one listened. Even Tony Blair said that we should have listened to India. Nuke Deal was explained by an analyst that US asked India to drop IPI pipeline which was in discussion and India agreed and in return asked for this deal. Growing Indian Economy meant for for US and NRIs in US had became a influential lobby. But to build ties with India, US has to distance itself from Pakistan as Soviet Union linkage with India and Us support to Pakistan has been major hurdle for Indo-US ties. (there is more to this story)

2) Davis kills 2 Pakistanis and escapes. There is no proof of Afia being a terrorist and still in jail and will be there forever.

Davis was a CIA agent and post 9/11, ISI and CIA worked together and since Pakistan was forced into WoT along with US, making Taliban its enemy and incurring huge losses, Pakistan needed ISAF Support Money. Pakistan didn't want to strain its ties with US as US has been ally of Pakistan for decades. Also, US ha significant influence in Monetary Organizations like WB, IMF etc. from which Pakistan has to take loans every now and then. Lives of two people didn't worth straining ties with US.

3) Fazlullah hiding in Kunar. Faqir Mohammed's (Ex-Bajaur Chief's) bases in Afghanistan.
Again, same argument. Can't go against US especially when WoT is not over.

4) US refusal to condemn India for the Siachen incursion but raising an outcry on the Kargil one which was made by fauji's after the Siachen debacle when they took 1000 miles of our land.

US don't mess in others affairs as long as it doesn't affect it or affect its national interest. They kept silent when Iraq attacked Iran and even used Chemical Weapons as Iran was no longer their ally after Islamic Revolution. These were the same Chemical Weapons, or Weapons of Mass Destruction, on which US invaded Iraq. So you can clearly see what I mean.

In case of Kargil, it was getting closer to nuclear threshold and when Clinton contacted Vajpayee, Vajpayee told him he has to answer to the nation. Clinton got the message and called Nawaz Shariff. Any nuclear war in our region would have spiral out.

5) USA's offer to sell better quality F16's to India compared to what they sold us.

US even offered F-35. You have to take into account that Defense industry is a major industry of US. it not only develps advance weapon but also advance technologies that trickle down to various other industries. It also take help of many other industries too and is their major customer. US economy was going down and Unemployment was rising. $ 12 billion dollar deal would have saved and provided thousands of jobs. For example Boeing was going to cut many jobs, which was saved due to Indian P8I deal. Their was even talk of F-35 deal to India too for brief period. They offered F-18SH too. they just wanted the deal.

6) Framing of Pakistani innocents in the name of terrorism-Seen it, researched it.

Can't comment on that unless mentioned in the post. But I can just say that US arrested many people, even innocents and sent to Guantanamo Bay for interrogation to get Bin Laden.

Rest I will answer later.
 
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