The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

[anon45]

ahaah, the west is pleased to despise Russia, but China won't.
In the cold war, Russia failed because Russia look down on China and push China into American camp..

I won't say pleased, i personally had hopes for a rapprochement given the shared interest in fighting terrorism among other things, but alas!

I suppose like Eastern European countries are paranoid of Russia, Russia is paranoid of NATO even though it is clearly a defensive alliance and was struggling for relevancy before Russia invaded Ukraine. Well no questions about its relevance now.

India being a pole is something I'm afraid I won't be living to witness. India has enormous problem and they haven't really figure out how to solve their energy need which will become a crisis in the future.

For Russia, it is a great power. Russia is a mature power. It has enormous strategic depth that across vast boundary and territories. Being on Russia's side is not a bad thing. Guarantee nuclear cover and energy, which is all we need when facing the US in an all out war, if that day ever comes. Although the current policy is not to take any side in the West vs Russia dispute, there is no question we favor toward the balancing act. We will continue to support and lift Russia when we see it is being push to the corner. This does not mean we are against the West as we have very favorable view and relation with European Powers. It means we protecting our securities and national interests by keeping the world multi-polar balance instead of submitting to the US unipolar hegemony.

If the current Russia is considered Russia as a mature and developed power, then I weep for Russians .

 

[Economic superpower]

That will have to be a hope for the long term,
Russia's military will not earn it 'positive' respect in the EU (primarily Eastern Europe), only fear in the short term due to the Soviet Union's legacy, this is regardless of the US having influence on EU decisions or not.

As long as Russia occupies Crimea and carries on a proxy invasion in Ukraine, there will be no neutrality for Russia in the EU for the medium term. I only say this because in the long term anything is possible.



So the US though of China in the 1990's

India is not China. Never has been and never will be.

I thought you were an American. Sounds like you're an Indian.

 

[xunzi]

If the current Russia is considered Russia as a mature and developed power, then I weep for Russians .

So you think Russia should lay down, and let Ukraine join EU and having NATO expand further into Russia proper is the right thing to do then? Remember when you push the mother bear to the end of death, it will aggressively attack and defend their cubs.

 

[anon45]

India is not China. Never has been and never will be.

I thought you were an American. Sounds like you're an Indian.

well its possible i'm overestimating India, but just because i'm optimistic about India's future is hardly a reason to doubt me being American.

Yes India is not a pole today, but given its demographics and being one of the geographically larger countries in the world, it definitely has the potential.

 

[Broccoli]

USA's foreign policy is all messed up. They just bit more than they can chew.

Silly cheese burgers and freedom fries.

US foreign policy is messed up because there is weak president in White House.

 

[Shotgunner51]

How is Russia a pole exactly?

The only thing that Russia has is a lot of land, a lot of nukes, and lot of oil.

Russia is a 2 trillion economy, which is in recession. (Japan is a 4 trillion dollar economy, European Union combined a 17 trillion dollar economy)

Russia has 140 million people, with an average percapita GDP of just above middle class.

Russia has almost no industry of any note, apart from Soviet legacy military complex.

Far more research happens in Germany alone, then the whole of Russia.

Russia is now surrounded by NATO, upto its borders.

Almost all nearby countries hate Russia, especially in Eastern Europe.


I would say, the actual poles are US, Europe, China, and then the rest are small regional actors.

US is a pole for sure.

As you have mentioned biggest land, biggest nuke stockpile, biggest gas/oil reserve, big "medium" developed society, Soviet legacy military-industrial base, then add UNSC P5 membership, geopolitical influence in CEE/MENA/SA, this combo makes Russia a definite pole.

EU is arguably a pole. It's an "Union" of small/medium sized nations, so is it truly coherent as a pole, given its sovereign members differ alot in their geo-economic interests? Also, Germany is all that matters.

China is also arguably a pole, since it actively maintains trade relationships with any country, no geopolitics attached, ending up as biggest trade partners for most countries in the world. China will continue to deepen trade ties with Eurasian countries, whether they are under western sanctions or not.

The only two poles are US, and Russia.

Being on Russia's side is not a bad thing

Russia is the only pole fighting against US global hegemony, so being on Russia's side is the righteous thing to do. Sino-Russia economic integration should be deepened.

 

[anon45]

So you think Russia should lay down, and let Ukraine join EU and having NATO expand further into Russia proper is the right thing to do then? Remember when you push the mother bear to the end of death, it will aggressively attack and defend their cubs.

Russia proper? Ignoring that NATO is a defensive alliance and would not attempt to invade Russia without something catastrophic first happening caused by Russia, shouldn't Russia's own nuclear arsenal give it enough piece of mind? No army is going to invade faster than a nuke flies.

As for NATO expanding, the continued expansion is due to Russia's foreign policy. These countries aren't being forced into joining, they choose to themselves because they fear Russia enough to do so!

 

[xunzi]

well its possible i'm overestimating India, but just because i'm optimistic about India's future is hardly a reason to doubt me being American.

Yes India is not a pole today, but given its demographics and being one of the geographically larger countries in the world, it definitely has the potential.

India advantage is having a big youth population and that's where everything begins and ends there. Its large demographics will become a problem when it seeks to grow. Expect much higher pollution coming out from them once they start to industrializing due to the fact it is a very tightly pack population. To feed its population with little resources. I don't know how they are going to accomplish that. I'm afraid India might already miss the 3rd industrialized period. With climate change talk and countries trying to reduce CO2, much stricter IPs, it is going to be much harder for India to industrialize now. If they can't industrialize, they have no shot at being a power because without playing a bigger role in global trade, security, and politics, they have no influence.

Russia proper? Ignoring that NATO is a defensive alliance and would not attempt to invade Russia without something catastrophic first happening caused by Russia, shouldn't Russia's own nuclear arsenal give it enough piece of mind? No army is going to invade faster than a nuke flies.

As for NATO expanding, the continued expansion is due to Russia's foreign policy. These countries aren't being forced into joining, they choose to themselves because they fear Russia enough to do so!

You like to spill that typical American propaganda that I doubt anyone believe in it. Oh right, you are not trying to invade Russia but only try to subjugate Russia by deploying missile defenses. LOL In this day and age, Russia is not going to allow anyone to intimidate Russia into changing their foreign policy. What Russia fear is not anyone in NATO attacking Russia, but it is the fact that you are crossing the red line into Russia influence and thus threaten their independent foreign policy. Ukraine and Syria crisis were two examples. Modern age war is fought by proxy through political; influence. Military force is only the last resolve.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

How is Russia a pole exactly?

The only thing that Russia has is a lot of land, a lot of nukes, and lot of oil.

Russia is a 2 trillion economy, which is in recession. (Japan is a 4 trillion dollar economy, European Union combined a 17 trillion dollar economy)

Russia has 140 million people, with an average percapita GDP of just above middle class.

Russia has almost no industry of any note, apart from Soviet legacy military complex.

Far more research happens in Germany alone, then the whole of Russia.

Russia is now surrounded by NATO, upto its borders.

Almost all nearby countries hate Russia, especially in Eastern Europe.


I would say, the actual poles are US, Europe, China, and then the rest are small regional actors.

Well, we are talking about independent poles of power.

Those others that you mentioned, they aren't independent poles of power. They fall entirely under the American pole.

Russia on the other hand is an independent power.

 

[Tractor]

Then Xi's visit to US this month must be forgotten.

 

[Zsari]

As for NATO expanding, the continued expansion is due to Russia's foreign policy. These countries aren't being forced into joining, they choose to themselves because they fear Russia enough to do so!

Oh, they are not forced to join, but regime change will be on the horizon for those that don't. NATO is not a defensive alliance, not the way US intend to use it. It's a containment mechanism and it is a constrictor.

 

[TaiShang]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh.... You're so mean to India and Indians.

Just being realistic and offer my educated opinion bro.

Oh, they are not forced to join, but regime change will be on the horizon for those that don't. NATO is not a defensive alliance, not the way US intend to use it. It's a containment mechanism and it is a constrictor.

That Indian person should read the NATO charter to understand the nature of it. It is not defensive at all. It is designed as preemptive.

 

[TaiShang]

I question neither your belief or mine, I merely pointing out the fact that it is ridiculous for any sane person to believe in such obvious lies from the govt.

You have to take the official line. Intentions are a whole different animal.

It is good to talk softly while clinching an iron fist at arms length.

 

[anon45]

As you have mentioned biggest land, biggest nuke stockpile, biggest gas/oil reserve, big "medium" developed society, Soviet legacy military-industrial base, then add UNSC P5 membership, geopolitical influence in CEE/MENA/SA, this combo makes Russia a definite pole.

EU is arguably a pole. It's an "Union", so is it truly coherent as a pole, given its sovereign members differ alot in their geo-economic interests? Also, Germany is all that matters.

Well they were united enough to agree to sanctions on Russia, so I would say there is enough unity of purpose for it to be considered a legitimate pole in its own right.

No American would ever say 'No American thought China would in the 1990s' with a smiley face.

You are Indian!

lol you have some strange ideas about what an american should or should not do. Do you deny that few could have imagined China's position today in the early 1990's?

Whatever, what you guys want my nationality to be is no matter, though it is somewhat annoying to be referred to as an Indian when I am in fact American .

Well admitting that i expect every troll on here to now refer to me as Indian in a misguided attempt to get under my skin.

Will respond to other post later.

Oh, they are not forced to join, but regime change will be on the horizon for those that don't. NATO is not a defensive alliance, not the way US intend to use it. It's a containment mechanism and it is a constrictor.

ok i lied, quick post! if by containment you mean Russia has little influence over the country with its military then yes, you are correct it does contain them. Otherwise any examples of aggressive NATO actions?

are you referring to Ukraine in this example? we will have to agree to disagree on that, but can you name any other members that were 'regime changed' into the alliance?[/QUOTE]

 

[Zsari]

ok i lied, quick post! if by containment you mean Russia has little influence over the country with its military then yes, you are correct it does contain them. Otherwise any examples of aggressive NATO actions?

are you referring to Ukraine in this example? we will have to agree to disagree on that, but can you name any other members that were 'regime changed' into the alliance?

Yugoslavia?