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the great "containing china" game - former naval chief speaks truth

r3alist

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a very good read, i think it basically captures all of the central issues of the region from a perspective the western media simply will not touch, this man speaks the truth



The up coming Pakistan-USA strategic dialogue must honestly address the two countries divergent strategic perceptions, imperatives, and compulsions.

After the last meeting officials in Washington claim that a trust deficit exists. This is a poor commentary on the achievements of previous meetings. What are the determinants of this trust deficit? Who is saying one thing and doing another? Who is hiding what and why? One or both partners must now come clean if the partnership is to respond to the genuine needs of their people.

The over riding compulsion of a superpower is to deny freedom of action to a challenger. This is an understandable and expected American strategic aim. It is currently manifested in containing a rampant China, the only possible challenger on the horizon. Pakistan facilitated America’s stated mission to remove the Taliban Government and hunt down Al Qaeda; but the American mission has broadened and morphed into a very different strategic direction, while the Pakistanis have been grappling with the harsh reality of violence at home.

Pakistanis are now worried about their position in the US’s China containment strategy, and the co-opting of India into that strategy. The people of Pakistan fear further visible destabilization of their state that is seen as a part of the US strategy to remove a thorn in the side of India, so it is free to stand up to China: and USA-India can cut off China’s resources and trade corridor through Pakistan. The people of Pakistan oppose Indian regional supremacy, and any distancing from China, and thus no longer see America as an ally. The trust deficit starts from this perceived American strategic shift. This fundamental divergence is the elephant in the dialogue that the Pakistan Foreign Minister and COAS can no longer gloss over.

The trust deficit is reinforced by “mission creep” into Pakistan, willingness to spend over $100 Billion a year on the war but reluctance to spend on weaning Taliban and Al Qaeda recruits away from a livelihood as militants to ROZ’s (we don’t hear of these any more), opposition to development of economic infrastructure like IPI and TAPI, access to American markets, Kerry-Lugar funds (where are they?). Facilitation of US strategy is destroying Pakistan’s economy and political cohesion without any offsets.

The US President set a July 2011 deadline, but on the ground huge US fortresses are being built in Islamabad, Karachi, and Peshawar. Is Pakistan supposed to believe that the contain China strategy will also end in July 2011?

The Pakistani side at the dialogue knows that India will never stand up to China on behalf of the USA, So in all honesty must wean their interlocutors away from unrealistic expectations. India is achieving its strategic ends through America vis-à-vis Pakistan. America will achieve nothing through India vis-à-vis China. Co-opting India to contain China should not result in misbalancing relations in South Asia to the detriment of Pakistan; specially the fragile conventional and strategic deterrence paradigm. America remains silent on Indian human rights abuses in Kashmir and persistent violation of UN resolutions on a Plebiscite; but has continued pressure on Pakistan for “NSAs” and nuclear issues. Similarly the occupying power allowing India ingress into Afghanistan is seen as collusion in India’s historic desire to create a two front external threat for Pakistan.

The other elephant in the dialogue is Iran. US strategy to control hydrocarbon resources of the Gulf and Caspian are understandable. The strategy of containing Iran’s ability to upset its Arab and Israeli allies can also be understood. However, silence on Indian de-stabilization of Baluchistan has no relevance or impact on the containment of Iran strategy. Pressure against the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline is being read in Islamabad as insensitivity to the economic imperatives of Pakistan.

The Pakistan side must not be apologetic about its relations with China and Iran. China is a time tested friend with many convergences in strategic aims. The people, of what are Iran and Pakistan today, share intimate history that goes far back in time. It is obvious that Pakistan and American perspectives on China and Iran are far apart.

That leaves Afghanistan. The people and tribes of Pakistan and Afghanistan are tied by their history, languages, culture, religion, economy, and strategic aims. The current aim of both is to see the orderly and early end of occupation of Afghanistan and arrest of mission creep into Pakistan. The key to Afghanistan’s future does not lie in Washington or Delhi. The Pakistani imperative that a post war Afghan Government, weighted in favor of the Northern Alliance or India, will not lead to peace in the region must be clearly understood. A repeat of the blowback after the Soviet withdrawal cannot be tolerated. Only the Afghans can decide their future, and the future of their relations with other countries. Given this backdrop it is a no brainer that there is a fundamental divergence on the current war and possible exit strategies in “AfPak”.

Overall the US and Pakistan strategic aims do not lend credence to any perception of “strategic partnership”. The US must come clean that it is here to contain China and Iran, and strengthen India. Those are not the strategic aims of Pakistan. As a superpower the US claims license to “control” the outcomes in Asia, but it has only demonstrated a weakening economic and military capacity to do so. This “burn-out” will run its course. The countries of the region have problems amongst themselves that cannot be resolved if there is no external interference. All would prefer emphasis on economic uplift in an environment of peace. That has perhaps not been the demonstrated strategic aim of the US for this region.

The time to end the war, occupation, and “control” strategy has arrived. America is losing friends, its moral standing, and its image as a reliable partner, and may thus become marginalized from the emerging Asia, if it continues its current strategy that few in Asia find acceptable.

Europe has distanced itself from the US strategy because it wants a future of economic co-operation with Asia. In fact this distancing may signal the decline of NATO that experts are grappling with in formulating the upcoming “Strategic Concept” to be deliberated at the NATO summit on 20th November in Lisbon.

The Pak-US strategic dialogue, coming before the Lisbon summit, should end on a note of caution for America and NATO. A strategy of economic co-operation and political non-interference in Asia, including China and Iran, would pay the people of America and Europe far greater dividends in the future, than the current self defeating strategy of “control”.

In the new world time and events are moving fast. The American Century based on the flawed and anti-human strategies of imperialism has ended within a decade. Military superiority allows killing many people, but cannot bomb there ideologies, cultures, and civilization out of them. These are realities that Washington must clearly understand.

The Pakistan side must go into the dialogue with a clear understanding that it can no longer facilitate imperial strategy in Asia. Pakistan too is losing friends, its moral standing, and its image as a reliable partner, and may thus also become marginalized from the emerging Asia, if it continues its current suicidal strategy that few in Asia find acceptable.

The only visible remaining convergence in the Washington-Islamabad relationship appears to be of hiding many skeletons in their cupboards before it is too late. If this is a strategic partnership for improving people’s lives, it should focus on ending the war and re-engineering political and economic relations with China and Iran, re-constructing the Pakistan and Afghan economies that have been ravaged by three decades of imperial war games, and redesigning Pakistan and America’s relationships with the countries of this region.

Admiral Fasih Bokhari was the Chief of Naval Staff Pakistan Navy. During his service besides other command and staff appointments, he was also Commander Submarines. Post retirement he has been very active in the Pakistan Ex-Servicemen Association that he headed for 2 years. Admiral Fasih has also been active in the South Asia Forums.

US-Pakistan: STRATEGIC DIALOGUE | Opinion Maker
 
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The Pakistan side must go into the dialogue with a clear understanding that it can no longer facilitate imperial strategy in Asia. Pakistan too is losing friends, its moral standing, and its image as a reliable partner, and may thus also become marginalized from the emerging Asia, if it continues its current suicidal strategy that few in Asia find acceptable.

With the kind of stance shown by the delegation of Leader, this can't be expected....however we can bank on military .

Was listening to Dr Shahid Masood review on PAK-US dialogues , he emphasized on the fact that Cameron Munter the next Ambassador of US in Pakistan will also be focusing on reducing the trust deficit of US in Pakistan.

Also Obama's decision of not visiting Pakistan on his trip to India in November, could also raise speculation among the military rank as well as civilian govt. However i believe that in order gain trust amongst the government, military and populace of Pakistan, Obama's visit in November could play an integral role.
 
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American hit us at time we were most vulnerable effectively selling out our sovereignty hence they cannot be trusted for eternity. And we can only offer enhanced cooperation vis a vis equivalent co-op.

So the shopping list:

1. Nuke deal
2. Market access
3. Reduced tariffs
4. Resolving kashmir
5. Balance of power versus India!
 
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Sorry America, its NOT in Pakistan's national or strategic interest to see a weak China and Iran.
And its NOT in Pakistan's national or strategic interest to see a strong india.



I hope the Pakistan Army, ISI, and Pakistan government always protect Pakistan's national and strategic interests.


:pakistan::china:
 
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Very interesting and balanced perspective. Pakistan has no desire to be "used" against China and Iran. This will simply not happen. If this means that relations with those who seek to leverage Pakistan against these two countries will not remain "strategic", then so be it.

In my view, however, it is not that simple and nor is it a zero-sum game. Pakistan is the world's 6th most populous state and has tremendous potential in almost every respect. It cannot be ignored and must be engaged constructively by everyone. And these engagements must remain focused on shared goals. Arm-twisting Pakistan into doing things that run counter to its strategic interests will only lead to frustration for all involved.
 
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Very interesting and balanced perspective. Pakistan has no desire to be "used" against China and Iran. This will simply not happen. If this means that relations with those who seek to leverage Pakistan against these two countries will not remain "strategic", then so be it.

In my view, however, it is not that simple and nor is it a zero-sum game. Pakistan is the world's 6th most populous state and has tremendous potential in almost every respect. It cannot be ignored and must be engaged constructively by everyone. And these engagements must remain focused on shared goals. Arm-twisting Pakistan into doing things that run counter to its strategic interests will only lead to frustration for all involved.

You're being so pretentious and condescending.

Potential is useless unless it is tapped. By your logic, India had tremendous potential right from 1947 but nobody started taking us seriously until we started tapping into that potential from 1991.

Just thinking that you can do something and getting happy about it will lead you nowhere.

You don't score a goal until you score a goal.
 
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American hit us at time we were most vulnerable effectively selling out our sovereignty hence they cannot be trusted for eternity. And we can only offer enhanced cooperation vis a vis equivalent co-op.

So the shopping list:

1. Nuke deal
2. Market access
3. Reduced tariffs
4. Resolving kashmir
5. Balance of power versus India!

They just recently refused.
US rejects Pakistan's request to intervene in Kashmir dispute

As for the rest, their policies are deliberately pro-India, by nature anti-Pakistan. It seems the only reason why they are engaging Pakistan is to keep it suppressed and to somehow get it to implode. I don't see any other way they are playing this. It's up to the people in charge in Pak to grow some balls and take care of things appropriately. US is not interested in a strong Pakistan. That is the last thing it wants.
 
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You're being so pretentious and condescending.


Perhaps you need to look up the meaning of these words in the dictionary before you use them. I don't see how you can possibly construe a statement of fact, and that too, one that is alluding to the arm-twisting *others* are subjecting Pakistan to, as "condescending".

Potential is useless unless it is tapped. By your logic, India had tremendous potential right from 1947 but nobody started taking us seriously until we started tapping into that potential from 1991.

Just thinking that you can do something and getting happy about it will lead you nowhere.

You don't score a goal until you score a goal.

If you are unaware of your own history, I can't do much to help you there. Suffice to say that even though India was/is one of the poorest nations on earth with numerous internal problems, its size was one of the only reasons it *was* engaged by world players. The USSR certainly "took you seriously". So did the West when they thought they could use you against China (1962). India also played a role - under Nehru - in the NAM. Why do you think Nehru thought he could play a significant role in that forum? If he was the Prime Minister of Liechtenstein, I guarantee you nobody would care about him, his country or his political position. It is India's size as a market for Western products which makes India compelling in large measure even today.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread further by discussing India's past... we were talking about Chinese containment here.
 
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Notice how little discussion there is the US whether their policy to surround China has merit or not or whether it is even possible -- The US seems to think that the Indian has lost his mind and wants to be in confrontation with the Chinese, the Pakistanis, the Bangladeshis, the Sri Lankan and the Nepali - such is the quality in US policy making circles that reality is just a hindrance to the furtherance of the zone of exception, and all must submit to their silly vision in which what their business community cannot do, their armies and promises of Dollars will.
 
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And its NOT in Pakistan's national or strategic interest to see a strong india.



Wheather it is in your intrest or NOT..! but the reality is neither US nor pak can do anything about it...!:coffee:
 
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ok Pakistan will really gona screw up its ties with an All weather Ally like China and neighboring country Iran just to get its ties good with a country(half a globe away) which dumped us way back in the 90s..the logic doesn't seems to be working.

Hell they are not even ready to give us civilian Nuclear tech despite all our Nation has gone through in this fkd up WOT both in terms of human lives and material damage, and still dough us for supporting terrorist and fill there ordinary population with false,hate generating media reports. How the hell can you expect the trust deficit to reduce.
As long as Uncle Sam going to treat Pakistan like that and Kiss some Indian azz the Partnership btw Pakistan and US is prone to fail once again. Its only a matter of time when US finds it to be feasible....!

Is theres any other Partnership except for the support of PA to the ISAF in Afghanistan, due to which could drive the US to maintain its realtions with Pakistan ..?? NO they have it with India and we are Paying with the Blood of our soldiers dying fighting against the retards which they brough up and with the =Blood of our innocent citizens who frankly IMHO have nothing to do with all this Bullcrap happening around them..!!!
To expect something big from a Nation like US is like building Castles in the SKY , this relationship is already dying..!!!!

But does Pakistan have something other than the Military Partnership to offer to US as incase of Indians having tons of Cheap and Skilled Human Labour for which the Corporates in US outsource so much ..HELL YEAH
This country is Blessed with such an outstanding Geo Strategic Position like its the Eighth Fulcrum of the World and if any Nation on this Earth has dreams of Rulling the World for a next Hundred Years at least, This Place should bear the order or leadership defined Only and Solly by that Nation.

Even a kid know that US is here to fck things up for China and by doing so its manipulating the Indians and Iranians and Pakistanis by having there azz stuck up in Afghanistan. This aint gona do much good to Uncle Sam:agree:
 
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H2O3C4NITROGEN - Aka Fratello Chemico (Chemical Brother)


I'll make you a small wager, Pakistan's civilian governments and soon it's military officers will become susceptible to blackmail in which they will be required to allow Pakistani territory to used against Brother Ally China.
 
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H2O3C4NITROGEN - Aka Fratello Chemico (Chemical Brother)


I'll make you a small wager, Pakistan's civilian governments and soon it's military officers will become susceptible to blackmail in which they will be required to allow Pakistani territory to used against Brother Ally China.

Week Highlights - WEDNESDAY OCTOBER 20: Mega projects to be given to Chinese companies: Zardari wants LPG pipeline to be laid from Gwadar to China


Gwadar Port may be given to China Special Report on Balochistan




Pakistan and China share too many mutual strategic interests, Pakistan and U.S. share hardly any mutual strategic interest.


And I repeat its not in Pakistan's national or strategic interest to see a strong india.
 
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Thats' great but I was referring to the use of deception and blackmail
 
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