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The graveyard of empires calls to China

striver44

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Military presence may accompany the extension of the Belt and Road Initiative to Afghanistan
A boy sells dried fruit on a street in Kabul, Afghanistan

A boy sells dried fruit on a street in Kabul, Afghanistan © Omar Sobhani/Reuters

Afghanistan is not known as the graveyard of empires for nothing. Alexander the Great, the British empire, the Soviet Union and now mighty America, all have been humbled in their attempts to conquer this fierce country. Now China, the world’s nascent superpower, risks falling into the same trap before it has even properly begun its own neo-imperial project.

As America’s longest war draws to a close before the symbolic date of September 11 2021, China’s leaders and foreign policy thinkers are struggling with contradictory impulses. On the one hand, Beijing has always felt the US campaigns in Afghanistan were part of a new “Great Game” intended to encircle, contain and potentially destabilise China, which shares a small strip of border with the country. So America’s final humiliating withdrawal and potential re-establishment of Taliban control in the country is welcomed from that perspective.

On the other hand, the looming power vacuum has the potential to create chaos in a country that could destabilise the entire region. A renewed civil war could attract jihadist forces that are already turning their attention to what several western governments have described as the “genocide” of China’s Muslim Uyghur population just across the border. Beijing is especially worried about Uyghur fighters returning from Syria, where a small number have fought alongside Isis.

Early this month, foreign ministers from China, Afghanistan and Pakistan met to discuss security arrangements following the US pullout from the country. China has also courted the Taliban and has even held out the offer of infrastructure and rebuilding projects to the group. Beijing is hoping to extend its grand Belt and Road infrastructure construction project from its main branch in Pakistan up into Afghanistan and is optimistic this can help provide stability to the war-torn country.

Having witnessed and welcomed America’s overextension in its “forever wars” of the last two decades and with memories of the Soviet experience in Afghanistan in the 1980s, the last thing China’s leaders want is to become bogged down in their own Afghan quagmire. Beijing considers the US entanglements in Afghanistan and Iraq after the 9/11 terrorist attacks mostly as a foreign policy distraction that provided a window of opportunity for a more assertive China.

Now the White House has publicly said it is ending the war in part to free up resources to meet the challenge of this rising power. The expectation that Beijing will get sucked into the country may well have played a part in President Biden’s decision to leave.

Beijing’s plan to extend the Belt and Road into Afghanistan is fraught with danger. In most other countries, these projects have been carried out with Chinese loans paying for Chinese workers to build roads, railways, ports and bridges. But thanks in part to the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang, Chinese contractors have already been targeted in parts of Pakistan. Given the much greater danger in Afghanistan and the political cost for Xi Jinping if workers come home in body bags, it is likely that any Belt and Road project in the country would have to be accompanied by a significant security presence.

Advisers to the Chinese Communist party have already recommended that China send peacekeeping troops to the country under the auspices of the United Nations to protect the “safety and interests” of Chinese people and companies there. Such missions have a habit of spiralling into much deeper engagement. President Xi should heed the lessons of history and avoid the fate of other would-be empires.

 
damn these afghans need war all the time for them war is economy bread and butter , they always need someone to be in afghanistan so half afghans became pro occupaid forces and half fighting them both earn money . a brother in taliban and another in ANA both go home sleep together in same room at night
 
damn these afghans need war all the time for them war is economy bread and butter , they always need someone to be in afghanistan so half afghans became pro occupaid forces and half fighting them both earn money . a brother in taliban and another in ANA both go home sleep together in same room at night
The Taliban will naturally be a headache for China. Especially for BRI
 
People may find it funny for Afghans is not. They are already talking about whose the next super power they will face. It started as a joke but now they seriously talk about taking on China.
 
People may find it funny for Afghans is not. They are already talking about whose the next super power they will face. It started as a joke but now they seriously talk about taking on China.
Yes, a smart move would see the US making peace with Talibs. and supply them with Manpads.
 
Military presence may accompany the extension of the Belt and Road Initiative to Afghanistan
A boy sells dried fruit on a street in Kabul, Afghanistan

A boy sells dried fruit on a street in Kabul, Afghanistan © Omar Sobhani/Reuters

Afghanistan is not known as the graveyard of empires for nothing. Alexander the Great, the British empire, the Soviet Union and now mighty America, all have been humbled in their attempts to conquer this fierce country. Now China, the world’s nascent superpower, risks falling into the same trap before it has even properly begun its own neo-imperial project.

As America’s longest war draws to a close before the symbolic date of September 11 2021, China’s leaders and foreign policy thinkers are struggling with contradictory impulses. On the one hand, Beijing has always felt the US campaigns in Afghanistan were part of a new “Great Game” intended to encircle, contain and potentially destabilise China, which shares a small strip of border with the country. So America’s final humiliating withdrawal and potential re-establishment of Taliban control in the country is welcomed from that perspective.

On the other hand, the looming power vacuum has the potential to create chaos in a country that could destabilise the entire region. A renewed civil war could attract jihadist forces that are already turning their attention to what several western governments have described as the “genocide” of China’s Muslim Uyghur population just across the border. Beijing is especially worried about Uyghur fighters returning from Syria, where a small number have fought alongside Isis.

Early this month, foreign ministers from China, Afghanistan and Pakistan met to discuss security arrangements following the US pullout from the country. China has also courted the Taliban and has even held out the offer of infrastructure and rebuilding projects to the group. Beijing is hoping to extend its grand Belt and Road infrastructure construction project from its main branch in Pakistan up into Afghanistan and is optimistic this can help provide stability to the war-torn country.

Having witnessed and welcomed America’s overextension in its “forever wars” of the last two decades and with memories of the Soviet experience in Afghanistan in the 1980s, the last thing China’s leaders want is to become bogged down in their own Afghan quagmire. Beijing considers the US entanglements in Afghanistan and Iraq after the 9/11 terrorist attacks mostly as a foreign policy distraction that provided a window of opportunity for a more assertive China.

Now the White House has publicly said it is ending the war in part to free up resources to meet the challenge of this rising power. The expectation that Beijing will get sucked into the country may well have played a part in President Biden’s decision to leave.

Beijing’s plan to extend the Belt and Road into Afghanistan is fraught with danger. In most other countries, these projects have been carried out with Chinese loans paying for Chinese workers to build roads, railways, ports and bridges. But thanks in part to the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang, Chinese contractors have already been targeted in parts of Pakistan. Given the much greater danger in Afghanistan and the political cost for Xi Jinping if workers come home in body bags, it is likely that any Belt and Road project in the country would have to be accompanied by a significant security presence.

Advisers to the Chinese Communist party have already recommended that China send peacekeeping troops to the country under the auspices of the United Nations to protect the “safety and interests” of Chinese people and companies there. Such missions have a habit of spiralling into much deeper engagement. President Xi should heed the lessons of history and avoid the fate of other would-be empires.


with all due respect to all the groups other than NATO out there :

we did not get defeated in Afghanistan.

we pruned the Taliban and alQuada in Afghanistan for 20 years very effectively.

we kept our homelands safe from large terror strikes like 9/11.

we did the same in many other muslim native areas, like Syria, Libya, etc, etc, *at the same time*.

we are now giving all groups like ISIS and alQuada and the Taliban the room to raise a new generation of fighters and leaders, hoping that they learn the utter futility of their attempts to impose their will and rule upon others by their methods of horrible violence against weak and innocent targets.

if they don't, and if other world powers like Pakistan or China or the Russians don't deal with any renewed threat from muslim extremists / fundamentalists / terrorists, then we'll simply prune them again.

this was not a defeat, it's a show of mercy and the fact that we can be reasonable when a threat has been eliminated, much like the Taliban (or the Chinese, or the Russians, for that matter) don't hurt those who obey to *their* moral code and laws without resistance.

*EVERY* single group / empire that has aimed for world conquest has been defeated and driven as ruins into the history books.

you either respect the territories of those who don't live like you do, or you end up in war.
and if you fight all groups that live by different codes, you'll be defeated sooner rather than later.

look it up in the history sub-forum here at defence.pk if you want..

oh, and one last thing : you Muslims did convince me during the past few years that the Israeli settlement expansion policies are inhumane and evil. i have, and will continue to make a very serious effort to get the Palestinians better living conditions.
 
we kept our homelands safe from large terror strikes like 9/11.
No, that is empahtically not the case. How many attacks did Netherlands get from Afghanistan before or after 9/11? In fact how many attacks did Europe get from Afghanistan before or after 9/11? In fact Europe got more dangerous because it decided to stand by USA.

The 9/11 attack had nothing to do with Europe least of all Netherlands. It had everthing to do with US imperial policies in Middle East with regards to Israel and stationing soldiers in Saudia. This is what drove the 9/11 terrorists and OBL.

we'll simply prune them again.
No you won't. While you were 'pruning' this triggered a avalanche of refugees from Afghanistan, Syria, Libya which flooded Europe. In addition with collapse pf Gaddafi's Libya millions of XXX sized Christians are now heading to Europe from Sub Saharan Africa who will begin to prune your women while your stuck in these stupid wars.

If you call this success I would not want to know what defeat would look like.
 
Back then Taliban slaughtered Russians like pigs. These days Chinese have attack drones that slaughter Taliban like pigs. Gotta love technology.




Care to elaborate how exactly will a Wing Loong help in this scenario!! The Yanks had some of the best drones is existence...much more advanced than anything the chinese could currently field
 
Back then Taliban slaughtered Russians like pigs. These days Chinese have attack drones that slaughter Taliban like pigs. Gotta love technology.




America pioneered this technology you bragging about. And even they got their a$$es kicked. Nothing can stand in front of Iman and a man not afraid of death. So what does it matter?
with all due respect to all the groups other than NATO out there :

we did not get defeated in Afghanistan.

we pruned the Taliban and alQuada in Afghanistan for 20 years very effectively.

we kept our homelands safe from large terror strikes like 9/11.

we did the same in many other muslim native areas, like Syria, Libya, etc, etc, *at the same time*.

we are now giving all groups like ISIS and alQuada and the Taliban the room to raise a new generation of fighters and leaders, hoping that they learn the utter futility of their attempts to impose their will and rule upon others by their methods of horrible violence against weak and innocent targets.

if they don't, and if other world powers like Pakistan or China or the Russians don't deal with any renewed threat from muslim extremists / fundamentalists / terrorists, then we'll simply prune them again.

this was not a defeat, it's a show of mercy and the fact that we can be reasonable when a threat has been eliminated, much like the Taliban (or the Chinese, or the Russians, for that matter) don't hurt those who obey to *their* moral code and laws without resistance.

*EVERY* single group / empire that has aimed for world conquest has been defeated and driven as ruins into the history books.

you either respect the territories of those who don't live like you do, or you end up in war.
and if you fight all groups that live by different codes, you'll be defeated sooner rather than later.

look it up in the history sub-forum here at defence.pk if you want..

oh, and one last thing : you Muslims did convince me during the past few years that the Israeli settlement expansion policies are inhumane and evil. i have, and will continue to make a very serious effort to get the Palestinians better living conditions.
STFU you're leaving humiliated just like Soviet Union. In a couple weeks when Taliban topple entire puppet Afghanistan. What will Biden and other European whities say then?

What spin will you give to that story?
 
The Chinese aren't stupid, they're not going into Afghanistan. They built that wall thousands of years ago for a reason. It's keeps Chinese inside and keeps non-Chinese outside. The best thing China can do is fence and mine the border with Afghanistan.

with all due respect to all the groups other than NATO out there :

we did not get defeated in Afghanistan.

we pruned the Taliban and alQuada in Afghanistan for 20 years very effectively.

we kept our homelands safe from large terror strikes like 9/11.

we did the same in many other muslim native areas, like Syria, Libya, etc, etc, *at the same time*.

This is beyond delusion. Europe never faced a 911 style attack ever - it was a one off event, most likely orchestrated by the USA itself.

Meanwhile many European countries have faced an increase in terrorist attacks, the type you like to call lone-wolf attacks. Clearly extremists have realised that simplicity is the key to success.

You didn't prune Al Queda - what was an insignificant little group hiding in Afghanistan ended up spreading across North Africa and the Middle East. You also created ISIS from it too. These elements have held or do hold significant sway in Mali, Nigeria, Kenya, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, LIbya. They have sleeper cells across Europe.

As for the Taliban, they are taking back Afghanistan a district at a time. In the last 50 days they've taken 50 districts; there's only 421 in the whole of Afghanistan!

You people and your arrogance devastated Iraq, Syria, Libya. Middle income countries where people lived comfortable lives destroyed thanks to your proxies and the civil wars you fueled. In the case of Iraq you invaded it too, whereas in the other two the you had limited military intervention, prefering to use proxies instead. WTF is safe in any of those countries? When where people safer in Iraq? 2002 or 2022?
 
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