The grand children of holocaust survivors from World War II are doing to the Palestin

[Ratus Ratus]

To answer your biased and crude thoughts i'll like to take help from a senior member of this forum, namely Araz
i am just copying one of his replies that he wrote at some other thread which is also a befitting answer to your post. Here it goes:-

Let me ask you a simple question. A party is housed in your houseand given a room to stay in. That party then decides of its own accord to take more and more rooms in your house using force. You are then finally confined to one room, except the other party has access to all the corridors.The other party then declares you a persona nongrata and blocks all your access with force so that you can not go out even to get water or to the toilet. If you protest vociferously ----ARE YOU A TERRORIST?
Do me a favour look at the maps of Israel in 1946, 1968, 1990, 2000, and 2008. Is it becoming larger? Then come back and we will continue this discussion.
Regards
Araz
Courtesy of Araz

Where is the bias?
Where are the crude thoughts?
Yes what happened in those years to make Israel bigger?

Your quote is irrelevant in this. As I said Israel is there for good or bad. That is NOT a pro statement for Israel it is a cold fact and it will not change.

 

[Ratus Ratus]

I disagree, the term judeo-christian is used for value or thoughts held in common with judaism and christianity. A perfect example i can give you in America is 10 commandment that you see in American court houses.



It is also true that the Arba nations and other muslim nations have never recognized the nation of Israel, and in so doing have constantly stayed antagonist with Israel. Why not blame the root cause first.

That does not constitute a religious bond between Israel and the US or any other country for that matter.

If one was to scratch closely there may be similarities between Islam and Judaism.

BUT I find these analogies close to scraping the bottom of the barrel for trivial excuses for an argument.

You are endeavouring to place a high relationship of religious bonding. Even with the Christian nations there is little in the way of religious bonding between each other. The argument is thin and close to be meaningless.


Blame the root cause to your heart’s content. But that root cause also caused the Arab nations to exist as well, not to mention Pakistan, India. (Add other border issues such as Pakistan and Afghanistan and a few other issues)

The blame is meaningless as no one is ever going to redraw the national boundaries. I don’t see too many Arab nations wanting to give up their territories. In fact some will vanish completely if you want to really redraw boundaries in true wisdom.

You have what there is, work with it.

 

[Moscow]

There is no religious bond between Israel and the US.
Wake up not everything is religious based. The relationship is based totally on powerful Jewish lobby groups in the US and these lobby groups have big behind them.

Well as far as the Palestine people go they would have had monetary funds coming in if it was not for Hamas and their “destroy Israel” creed. That put Hamas on the terrorist list.

It is about time that people and groups realised for good or bad Israel is there to stay. That is NOT a pro statement for Israel it is a cold fact.

How Israel treats their neighbours and Palestinians is a different issue and should at present possibly receive world condemnation. I would also suggest that possibly the constant “at war” status of Israel with the Palestinians is there to provide leverage back in USA, but go prove it.

sir why i wrote "religious" bond is because of this post by our pdf member TRUTHSEEKER . i found his reasoning quite logical so iam posting this here for you sir to have a look.i never questioned the existance of israel at all in my post, monetary support is not the same a weapons support.

originally posted by truthseeker "pdf " member.
" I agree with your expectations that the selection of Emanuel telegraphs that the Obama administration will likely be as supportive of Israel as have previous US Presidents. But please think through your analysis that it has anything to do with oil. You are an intelligent person. Can you think of a logical reason why supporting Israel is in the self-interest of the US? I bet you can't, because there isn't a logical reason for our support. Our support of Israel is counterproductive to our access to oil resouces in the Muslim world. If we would abandon Israel we would be in a better position to make deals for oil and natural gas development and access. At the very least we can always buy Arab oil at world prices without spending billions and billions of $ supporting Israel and fighting with Muslims over it. No, the US support of Israel is the result of the masterful public relations success of Jewish Americans and Israelis in convincing the American public that support of Israel is the most "moral" position. Americans are convinced that if we didn't support Israel the way we do, the Israelis would be wiped out by the Arab neighbors and this second Jewish holocaust would be our sin and our fault. You may believe there is some power political reason, but, if you search for a Machiavellian logic for what we get out of our support for Israel, you will see that we get nothing. Our support is a misguided Christian morality."

thanks

 

[PakForce Unlimited]

What about Free Masonry???
Isn't it part of the plot?

Dont know much about them, isnt it just a big conspiracy theory that they control the world agenda?

My professor is a freemason (he has a nice ring with the logo) and today he was talking warmly about Gaza.

 

[Xeric]

Where is the bias?
Where are the crude thoughts?

I'll leave this to your imagination.

Yes what happened in those years to make Israel bigger?

Why don't you find it yourself.

Your quote is irrelevant in this. As I said Israel is there for good or bad. That is NOT a pro statement for Israel it is a cold fact and it will not change.

Wow, now it becomes irrelevant.
Ya israel is there for guud or bad, but why it is there at the first place.
They were given a place to breath, not to rule!

 

[zhero]

So, where was this common judeo-christian value system during WW II and the holocaust?

The jewish lobby is strong in the US. After the holocaust, they decided that they were going to influence world politics. Can't really blame them, can you?

Why don't more petro-dollars go to the Palestinians?

 

[jeypore]

That does not constitute a religious bond between Israel and the US or any other country for that matter.

If one was to scratch closely there may be similarities between Islam and Judaism.

BUT I find these analogies close to scraping the bottom of the barrel for trivial excuses for an argument.

You are endeavouring to place a high relationship of religious bonding. Even with the Christian nations there is little in the way of religious bonding between each other. The argument is thin and close to be meaningless.

The Israel lobby that we are all taking about resides heavily towards the Democratic Party, so it is very understandable where there loyaltis lie. But the bigger question would be where would the republican party loyalties lie? And you really do not have to go so far, just visit your local American church and get your weekly sermon of the Judio-Christian. Also you can see it on TV with Christian Monitor or the 500 Club every Sunday. Where the slogans of "We must protect Israel.", on a weekly dosage.

Blame the root cause to your heart’s content. But that root cause also caused the Arab nations to exist as well, not to mention Pakistan, India. (Add other border issues such as Pakistan and Afghanistan and a few other issues)

The blame is meaningless as no one is ever going to redraw the national boundaries. I don’t see too many Arab nations wanting to give up their territories. In fact some will vanish completely if you want to really redraw boundaries in true wisdom.

You have what there is, work with it.

Here I am bit confused based on your argument. If I am not wrong, your argument was based on, Israel has a constant financier by creating a fear of the Palestine and Muslim nation. My argument is that Israel has the right to exists, and the constant noices that created by the Arabs and Muslims world constantly keeps one at guard, and is paranoid of any movement.

 

[Ratus Ratus]

The Israel lobby that we are all taking about resides heavily towards the Democratic Party, so it is very understandable where there loyaltis lie. But the bigger question would be where would the republican party loyalties lie? And you really do not have to go so far, just visit your local American church and get your weekly sermon of the Judio-Christian. Also you can see it on TV with Christian Monitor or the 500 Club every Sunday. Where the slogans of "We must protect Israel.", on a weekly dosage.

Bluntly if I want humour I will watch The Simpson’s or Futurama.

As far as Democrazies or Repubics I don’t care. From what I can see neither party are at all useful. As I said in another tread USA can have a House of Representatives, Senate and President, all Democrats, and still there can be 3 distinct and different attitudes to a single bill, even if that was a democrat bill in the first place. Great politics.

Here I am bit confused based on your argument. If I am not wrong, your argument was based on, Israel has a constant financier by creating a fear of the Palestine and Muslim nation. My argument is that Israel has the right to exists, and the constant noices that created by the Arabs and Muslims world constantly keeps one at guard, and is paranoid of any movement.

No we agree. BUT I just added that part of the leverage that Israel exerts is this constant conflict attitude. It is part of the intent to maintain that USA financial backing. This financial backing I disagree with as I don’t believe it is relevant anymore.

I believe more international pressure needs to put to stop the violence in the West Bank and Gaza as well as developing a stable Palestine state. This also means transparency of government, lack of corruption, and the removal of the Hamas’s statement of wiping Israel off the map.
It also means removal of ALL Israeli settlements in the West Bank.

 

[Xeric]

Dont know much about them, isnt it just a big conspiracy theory that they control the world agenda?

My professor is a freemason (he has a nice ring with the logo) and today he was talking warmly about Gaza.

Without any prejudice and harshness...are you really that innocent?
How would you expect the new world order to grow with people like you and me having a complete knowledge about it?

P.S. Now i know what exactly is the problem with your mind. It's not you it's your warm professor.

 

[PakForce Unlimited]

Without any prejudice and harshness...are you really that innocent?
How would you expect the new world order to grow with people like you and me having a complete knowledge about it?

P.S. Now i know what exactly is the problem with your mind. It's not you it's your warm professor.

I didnt knew that one was "innocent" if the person do not believe in a "new world order" and freemasons tagteaming with Jews. Please, stop! There is no need for responding when you have nothing to add to the discussion but rather go personal.

 

[Xeric]

I didnt knew that one was "innocent" if the person do not believe in a "new world order" and freemasons tagteaming with Jews. Please, stop! There is no need for responding when you have nothing to add to the discussion but rather go personal.

Yes that's exactly what innocence is called.
Closing your eyes from the reality and acting like a newly born won't make your solicitees bona fide and clear of all the blames that majority of the world claims on them!

 

[TruthSeeker]

sir why i wrote "religious" bond is because of this post by our pdf member TRUTHSEEKER . i found his reasoning quite logical so iam posting this here for you sir to have a look.i never questioned the existance of israel at all in my post, monetary support is not the same a weapons support.

For the record, moscow, you are misunderstanding my point in the quote from me. The Jewish lobby PLAYS on Christian feelings of guilt over the European holocaust. The result is not a RELIGIOUS bond between the US and Israel but rather one of sympathy (by US Christians) for the needy and downtrodden (Israel) in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. There is a huge religious bond between American Jews and Israel, but not between mainstream US society and Israel.

 

[Moscow]

For the record, moscow, you are misunderstanding my point in the quote from me. The Jewish lobby PLAYS on Christian feelings of guilt over the European holocaust. The result is not a RELIGIOUS bond between the US and Israel but rather one of sympathy (by US Christians) for the needy and downtrodden (Israel) in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. There is a huge religious bond between American Jews and Israel, but not between mainstream US society and Israel.

sir similar sympathy exists for the palestine people by fellow arab and islamic countries, that the people there were undone and given a raw deal and also suffering so much at the hands of israel, the islamic world never fail in claiming this at all but why then are they not doing enough for the cause, if the americans feel moral sympathy for israel and can help them because of this then why cant the islamic world do so, thats the question.humanatarian aid on a regular baisis is always welcome and many arab nations can afford that also.
sir my point was if people are questioning that israel thrives because americans provide them with aid then why cant the islamic organisation of nations plan a similar kind of permanent aid for the palestine people.

so my whole point was there is no point in blaming the americans for doing something that they feel must be done while we sit mum in cases where people are not doing what needs to be done.

thanx

 

[TruthSeeker]

so my whole point was there is no point in blaming the americans for doing something that they feel must be done while we sit mum in cases where people are not doing what needs to be done.

thanx

Yes, moscow, it is INEFFECTIVE to blame Americans for what they are doing in support of Israel without tackling the root cause of American support, which, I contend, is a "morally driven" desire to prevent a 2nd Jewish holocaust. That is why, in many posts here at the PDF, I assert that the most EFFECTIVE way to change or to balance this support in favor of the Palestinian side is for the Palestinians and/or Israeli Arabs to develop a countering MORAL imperative that favors them. I think this could be accomplished by a NON-VIOLENT "civil rights" movement, especially in Israel. It has to be non-violent or it does not counter the American moral fear of a Jewish holocaust. VIOLENT Palestinian movements only serve to re-enforce this American fear. The present Obama Administration, and the people who he has brought with him into the American Government, make it the American Government the MOST susceptible to being swayed by an Israeli Arab civil rights movement since the founding of Israel.

On the other hand, we have a saying here in the US: "The Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance for peace."

 

[Xeric]

For the record, moscow, you are misunderstanding my point in the quote from me. The Jewish lobby PLAYS on Christian feelings of guilt over the European holocaust. The result is not a RELIGIOUS bond between the US and Israel but rather one of sympathy (by US Christians) for the needy and downtrodden (Israel) in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. There is a huge religious bond between American Jews and Israel, but not between mainstream US society and Israel.

Don't get into specifics.
Whether you call it religion, sympathy, aid, charity or benignity. The fact remains that isrealis can be termed as parasites, sticking to the down side of Americans.