1. Yes I support you there, the standard/Middle class Pakistani does not support terrorism. I have been to Pakistan myself so I know.
I hope you enjoyed your stay.
But if you tell me that the government of Pakistan or the army or the ISI or whoever is in charge of Pakistan does not support Terror as a state policy, then you are wrong.
I'm afraid I will have to disagree with you. None of the above supports terrorist groups. There may have been a few rotten apples in the past ---civilian/government/military/etc. that may have involved themselves in shady groups ---but it has no bearing or representativeness of the State of Pakistan.
Pakistan is a responsible country.
I dont know how can even say that, as this is a fact that is verified by many past presidents and prime ministers of Pakistan. Most recently being Mr.Zardari -
Pakistanis don't support terrorism.
And I can almost say with full conviction that Pakistanis don't support Zardari either!!
Sponsoring the so called Freedom Fighters, who indulge in terrorism related activities is also called using terror as a state policy.
We support political figures in Kashmir. It is our responsibility to heed to their calls and provide moral support to them, as we have been doing. As we will continue to do.
The GOP has provided much more than just Moral support to anti-social organizations in Kashmir. This is a fact that you must accept as to be frank it is the truth.
again, there's 2 sides to this. Most of the insurgency in iok is purely Kashmiri phenomenon. Those are mostly locals who are doing the fighting against indian security forces --whom they perceive as occupiers. To them, and to some in and outside of Pakistan --it is a legitimate cause.
Supporting Kashmiris doesnt make Pakistan state/citizens "terrorist"
sectarian groups; non-state individuals who carried out massacres like Mumbai tragedy; those that aim to wage war and chaos on nation -- those are terrorists. A good example would be Al-Zulfiqar group of the late Murtaza Bhutto; he was supported by certain nearby countries. Kind of like BLA
2. I can see that you have lots of info about Naxals and extremist organizations in India. Im sure you would also have the same kind of knowledge about similar organizations in Pakistan. Bhaijan its time you worry about Pakistan and I worry about India.
re-read my post please
Its when we both switch roles is when problems are created. India the most diverse country on this planet by far and there are bound to be issues between different school of thoughts. But even after your so called Freedom movements India has managed to not only hold itself to together but also grow at a amazing pace.
good for you......iron out the differences that do exist. Many of which there are. Of course we wont worry about your affairs, as long as you dont embroil yourselves in ours. Simple as that.
i think india is more guilty of this crime, but I wont resort to tit-for-tat cross-talk
Where on the other hand Pakistan who started at the same time as us, has way less problems, only one religion, 10 maybe 20 different language and cultures is suffering quite a lot.
indian civilian institutions are stronger and much better founded than our own. That in itself is an advantage for you.
In Pakistan, we are dealing with the greater effects of a war along our northern border. We are dealing with neglect stemming from 1980s, when a problem was allowed to grow bigger and bigger. Pakistan federation is still strong, and the people are united now more than ever.
Really either my perception is wrong or your state policy is. One of us has to change his ways bhaijan.
I never said we havent also made mistakes. I think leadership is very important. There needs to be mutual trust and respect. We will not accept being bullied or cornered. History has shown this. Why dont we just sincerely resolve all outstanding issues and not let a few unruly non-state actors do all the talking and ..... acting...
3. Now lets come to the big Baluchistan issue, as we can see its become routine for Pakistani members to put all the blame for everything that is wrong with Pakistan on India. Do you really think every problem in Pakistan is because of us ?
Who said we are blaming everything on you. As far as you (indian) are concerned --yes there are major outstanding issues. But we also have our own priorities and obligations to meet, and india has nothing to do with them.
The fact is that the Taliban was created by people such as Hamid Gul and the isi to fight the Russians during the Soviet-Afghan war.
who provided weapons and funding? Fact of the matter is, it was in our interests to not have the Soviets at our doorstep. There is a new gathering of people in Pakistan who are asking --was it worth it???
I still say, yes it was. Many agree with me; some don't. We helped create taleban because our northern neighbour was being occupied and the people resisting were being attacked. Millions of Afghan refugees were pouring en-masse into Pakistan. We had a crisis on ours own hands.
Now after many year that same tiger is coming bite you, it becomes quite easy to blame the other guy. Its people like Hamid Gul who you should blame as they are the cause of all the troubles.
I want to know why indians resort to poster-boy syndromes like these. You attribute something like this to a specific figure (e.g. Lt. Gen [r] Gul or Zaid Hamid etc.).
Quick reality check: Lt. Gen. [r] Gul is very limited in his means at this time. To say he supports taleban now is beyond ridiculous. When you retire from the Army in Pakistan --- the honour of having served the motherland is so great. People respect you. Peers, neighbours, everybody respects you....... but bank account and means of living remains quite modest. How in hell would he be supporting them?
He has made his views quite clear on the matter. Just because the West abandoned Pakistan after the cold war, it means we should just abandon the people who liberated Afghanistan from occupation?
Those people began their in-fighting, and the taleban stopped the war; stopped the drugs; and united the tribes; ended the mass rapes and killings of rival factions. To do that in Afghanistan is quite the feat. I wouldnt attribute this success solely to a Retired Lt. Gen.
Such disturbed individuals have washed away they honesty by putting the blame on India so that no one comes after them. People like him still advocate the victory of the Taliban which is a very scary prospect for Pakistan.
I don't see Pakistanis lining up and anxious to listen to him speak. Do you?
I personally think he's a patriot. He's charismatic and speaks well. He loves the soil. He served the country well while in uniform. I don't agree with some things he says. I do think America and the West feel threatened by him because he is basically the "man who knows too much"
Its time to introspect rather than blame India. I dont want to stress more on the Baluch issue as that is Pakistans internal matter and I dont claim to be an Expert, on it.
we arent blaming india for all the problems......it would be stupid and unpatriotic to do so.
Pakistan has not achieved anything from the Kashmir issues and all of its strategic goals are still where they were 60 years ago.
No, I beg to differ. Patience is an important virtue. I think more and more Pakistanis are realizing this. At least I hope so.
A country with the potential of Pakistan could have been on a different level but because of the continuous stress on Kashmir has stopped all growth.
would a mother stop worrying about her child simply because she gets tired and worn out by doing so?
What do you think, will India just get up one day and give up Kashmir. Common Bhaijan we both know that is never going to happen and as India grows stronger it becomes even less likely.
the worlds biggest democracy should do the most democratic and brave thing - and take Kashmir issue to the spotlight and be willing to resolve it, based on will of Kashmiris.
Its time for Pakistan to stop focusing its resources on Kashmir as its seriously hampering its growth.
out of the question....
India and Indian have been the victims of terror way longer than anyone else in the world.
I don't think so. This is an exaggeration.
What many Indian have sacrificed or lost is incomparable to anything else. Living in the constant fear of death while visiting a theatre or shopping at a market is not pleasant to live with bhaijan.
by now, after 2 very tumultuous and testing years -- we know.
But whatever happens, happens. You could die crossing the street tomorrow. Can't let fear or emotions control your life, can you?
Anyways I can go on and on but I hope you get my point and I can change you point of view even in the slightest way.
in the end, we reach no settlement.
But I appreciate that we can at least talk and agree on a few things.
We both want to see our countries succeed.....economically, politically, militarily etc. We want to lift the poor out of their desperate positions, we want modern facilities, modern infrastructure., favourable trade position, self-sufficiency etc. etc.
Unfortunately, sir, we have many diverging interests. The question is, how to narrow the gap.
I'm not an old fart yet
so maybe in my lifetime I will see an end to the instability and unpredictable nature of this sub-continent.
