The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[Xeric]

Similarly its a UN demand that Pakistan get back the terrirtoy it unilaterally gifted to its friend,a UN demand to stop supporting cross-border terrorism,A UN demand not to violate ceasefire..

You need to prove all this, until then please carry on with the yap and keep on calling the kettle black.

 

[harish]

And in case if you have forgotten of those soldiers who die in vain in Kashmir (that's the amount of respect that you have for them), allow me to remind you that it is india that is committing a 0.5 million army there, not us.

Sir they do not die in vain. They die to keep us safe. And to protect what is ours. From those that would snatch it in the name of religious fundamentalism. And we do respect our braves sir. When they lay down their lives for the country, their bodies come home dressed in full uniform, draped with the Indian tricolor. And full military honors. Not left unclaimed on a mountainside. Jai Hind.

 

[harish]

allow me to remind you that it is india that is committing a 0.5 million army there, not us.

You sir are not committing forces because there is no part of your country hostilely coveted by mine. Were that not the case, I do believe the luxury of diverting boots towards the Taliban internally would be the lowest on your list of military priorities.

 

[prodevelopment]

A ramble from a think tank? Someone is getting fidgety

Well i know what these resolutions mean, ofcourse it wont leading into an united miltary effort against india if it is not binding, but as we have already seen the indian support for the israeli action recently we arent surprised that india is very willing to join the list of those who blatantly disgrace civility and uprightness.

Talks of civility and uprightness coming from those who train and support illegal gurilla fighters does not bode well my dear. The fact that you have to resort to India's military partnership with Israel to find something incriminating against us shows that India is on the right parth.

BTW, if india is so jumpy in not biding by the resolution, it shouldnt have agreed to it at the first place. This we call, licking ones own spit.

The fact remains that Pakistan has completely disregarded the resolutions in gifting part of Kashmir to China and changing the demography of North-West J&K. And then you tried to take the rest of J&K by force in multiple wars. When that came to nothing, you are trying to run back to the UN resolutions?

Is that not called licking ones own spit?

Anyhow, no worries, it is your soldiers that are killed every day there and dramas like those that happened in Mumbai take place if this Kashmir issue lingers on.
.
.
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And in case if you have forgotten of those soldiers who die in vain in Kashmir (that's the amount of respect that you have for them), allow me to remind you that it is india that is committing a 0.5 million army there, not us.

You seem weak at maths, boy.

Sirji, calling Mumbai like attacks a drama does not suit you. Jinke apne ghar sheeshe ke hote hain, wo doosro ke ghar par patthar nahi fainkte.

And the way you celebrate the death of our soldiers, the same way we celebrate the death of those trained assassins sent by you. In fact, your callousness is precisely the reason those brave soldiers are needed in J&K.

 

[Xeric]

Sir they do not die in vain. They die to keep us safe. And to protect what is ours. From those that would snatch it in the name of religious fundamentalism. And we do respect our braves sir. When they lay down their lives for the country, their bodies come home dressed in full uniform, draped with the Indian tricolor. And full military honors. Not left unclaimed on a mountainside. Jai Hind.

Well for me the sure die in vain because there isnt any existential threat from Kashmiris to india, at maximum the only threat to someone that belongs to the indian union is to those soldiers that commit suicides, turn into rapists and experience a high degree of PTSD that too due to an enemy that they have create themselves - no occupation, rape, atrocity, no problems.

They lay down their live in vain because had this Kashmir abyss not created by india, hundreds of indian soldiers would have been saved and utilized to fight the maoists and re-gain those some 220 districts.

Believe me, it would be a profitable exchange of priorities for indian, if this happens.

 

[karan.1970]

Lolz... what an enlightening piece of info.

Well i know what these resolutions mean, ofcourse it wont leading into an united miltary effort against india if it is not binding, but as we have already seen the indian support for the israeli action recently we arent surprised that india is very willing to join the list of those who blatantly disgrace civility and uprightness.


BTW, if india is so jumpy in not biding by the resolution, it shouldnt have agreed to it at the first place. This we call, licking ones own spit.


Moreover, you are just some internet champion who is of a different opinion, your govt has already agreed to the implementation of the resolution but isnt doing it because of the issues like troops withdrawal etc, and not because of what you have mentioned.

Not commenting about the Israel issue at this time, but on Kashmir, no matter how you disguise it, the situation is simply of Pakistan sponsored terrorism in the valley to win territory through a proxy war.

On agreeing to the implementation, the whole thing made sense at the time it was proposed. Pakistan did not cooperate in withdrawl of troops etc. Over next few years post 1948, the resolution lost its applicability and was rejected by India starting 1954 or so. Post 1965, when Pakistan attempted and failed to implement a sneaky military solution, the resolution lost whatever lilttle significance it had at that time. Right now, Kashmir issue and the above resolution is only an outdated artifact which only Pakistan is clutching at as a desperate ploy to divert attention from other explosive issues within the subcontinent that are totally contained within Pakistan. This we call burrying one's head in sand.

Anyhow, no worries, it is your soldiers that are killed every day there and dramas like those that happened in Mumbai take place if this Kashmir issue lingers on.


That's what you like all of us to believe, but guess what, tt will take us atleast somewhere, which ofcourse is not digestible to an oppressor.

Ooooo... i am shivering!


^^ Well dont see us f;inching either.

And in case if you have forgotten of those soldiers who die in vain in Kashmir (that's the amount of respect that you have for them), allow me to remind you that it is india that is committing a 0.5 million army there, not us.

You seem weak at maths, boy.

A nice underhanded attempt to use acts of terrorism (Mumbai) to add weight to the Kashmir arguement. Isnt by association, you are making the Kashmir war also an act of cross border terrorism against India. ??

But anyway, while highlighting costs of Kashmir issue to India, you do realize the manifold cost Pakistan is paying for supporting these acts of terrorism against India. In the words of your own govt, you are having a Mumbai like incident every week in Pakistan. Do you call those Dramas as well??

 

[karan.1970]

Well for me the sure die in vain because there isnt any existential threat from Kashmiris to india, at maximum the only threat to someone that belongs to the indian union is to those soldiers that commit suicides, turn into rapists and experience a high degree of PTSD that too due to an enemy that they have create themselves - no occupation, rape, atrocity, no problems.

They lay down their live in vain because had this Kashmir abyss not created by india, hundreds of indian soldiers would have been saved and utilized to fight the maoists and re-gain those some 220 districts.
Believe me, it would be a profitable exchange of priorities for indian, if this happens.

Really the same arguement can be applied to a lot of other issues like Baluchistan, NWFP etc? But a country can not withdraw from a part of its territory simply because there is insurgency there. J&K is as much a part of India as the 220 districts you talk of. Niether is going anywhere.

Irrelevent, but just to clarify, the soldiers saved in Kashmir will have no impact on the fight with Maoists since Army is not playing a role there (yet)

Just like Pakistani irregulars (disguised as Kashmiri terrorists) getting killed in J&K does not impact Pakistan's ability to fight multiple indigenous terrorist organizations across its land.

 

[harish]

Well for me the sure die in vain because there isnt any existential threat from Kashmiris to india, at maximum the only threat to someone that belongs to the indian union is to those soldiers that commit suicides, turn into rapists and experience a high degree of PTSD that too due to an enemy that they have create themselves - no occupation, rape, atrocity, no problems.

They lay down their live in vain because had this Kashmir abyss not created by india, hundreds of indian soldiers would have been saved and utilized to fight the maoists and re-gain those some 220 districts.

Believe me, it would be a profitable exchange of priorities for indian, if this happens.

Ofcourse 'you' would find their death to be in vain sir. We do see things differently. India is not at risk from Kashmiris, just as she is not at risk from Maharashtrians or Tamilians. Why would you think otherwise? The enemy comes from across our borders and he is not a figment of our imagination sir. The only stress our men in uniform face is the marked lack of opportunity off late in finally coming to terms with their uniformed ex-brothers who prefer to send civilians across to fight their fight. Coming to the Kasmir abyss kind sir, it was Pakistan who started hostilities. India's military position simply is to be around when the time comes to end it once and for all, or to prevent misadventure till the enemy gathers resources and the requisite courage for the final push. We are happy to wait and watch up until the point that happens. You see, our position is defensive. We protect what is ours. We do not covet what is yours, and so the onus of the first move lies on you. Coming to the Maoists, the army is going to be raising 7 crack units of our CRPF who would be trained and armed and commanded by the Rashtriya Rifles. It would also add to a credible force at the nation's disposal once the civil objectives are met, should the army ever need back-up, anywhere, anytime. You see sir, unlike some other nations, we believe our army is only for the enemy without. Not for killing our own people. Our armed forces in Kashmir meanwhile grow lonely and bored as they wait for your own to finish off your own.

 

[Xeric]

A ramble from a think tank? Someone is getting fidgety

Acting funny or what?

Talks of civility and uprightness coming from those who train and support illegal gurilla fighters does not bode well my dear. The fact that you have to resort to India's military partnership with Israel to find something incriminating against us shows that India is on the right parth.

You need to prove those accusations or else keep shut.

Or may be you can post a few of those links stating ' Pakistani terrorists tried to cross the LoC and in turn india found a few rabbits or perhaps (ecevn better) a pegion!'

The fact remains that Pakistan has completely disregarded the resolutions in gifting part of Kashmir to China and changing the demography of North-West J&K. And then you tried to take the rest of J&K by force in multiple wars. When that came to nothing, you are trying to run back to the UN resolutions?

Is that not called licking ones own spit?

That's your version of the story.

Just by 'believing' NAs as part of Kashmir wouldnt make them, almost all of you have been yapping about this but still no one has been able to prove it. So keep on dreaming and let us enjoy the lush greens of Pakistan's NAs.

We have done whatever we like to what that belonged to us. Let's see if you can do any guud to that something except killing and raping that dont even belongs to you.

Sirji, calling Mumbai like attacks a drama does not suit you. Jinke apne ghar sheeshe ke hote hain, wo doosro ke ghar par patthar nahi fainkte.

Mumbai is a drama and it has been proved. Those whom you accused of roam freely today in Pakistan and would do so until you plan and execute another drama with a little bit more precision.

And as for the sheeshe thing, well your cold start BS and two front war had already sucked up shyt. Let's see what your land graber generals comes up with next.

And the way you celebrate the death of our soldiers, the same way we celebrate the death of those trained assassins sent by you. In fact, your callousness is precisely the reason those brave soldiers are needed in J&K.

We dont celebrate death of any human, its just the byproduct of your sick mentality. Celebrate was used by you not me. Being a soldier myself, i just feel demoralized watching men in uniform dieing in vain without achieving anything but disgrace, a stigmatic life and increased levels of mental sickness!

 

[Xeric]

Really the same arguement can be applied to a lot of other issues like Baluchistan, NWFP etc? But a country can not withdraw from a part of its territory simply because there is insurgency there. J&K is as much a part of India as the 220 districts you talk of. Niether is going anywhere.

Irrelevent, but just to clarify, the soldiers saved in Kashmir will have no impact on the fight with Maoists since Army is not playing a role there (yet)

Just like Pakistani irregulars (disguised as Kashmiri terrorists) getting killed in J&K does not impact Pakistan's ability to fight multiple indigenous terrorist organizations across its land.

Ok, another genius who equate Kashmir with Balochistan and FATA-so the remaining lines doesnt even merit a read.

 

[Xeric]

Not commenting about the Israel issue at this time, but on Kashmir, no matter how you disguise it, the situation is simply of Pakistan sponsored terrorism in the valley to win territory through a proxy war.

Exactly the manner that you have adopted in Afghanistan against Pakistan, right?

BTW, please provide recent links that prove Pakistani involvement and supporting the freedom fighters there or else your yap is futile.

On agreeing to the implementation, the whole thing made sense at the time it was proposed. Pakistan did not cooperate in withdrawl of troops etc. Over next few years post 1948, the resolution lost its applicability and was rejected by India starting 1954 or so. Post 1965, when Pakistan attempted and failed to implement a sneaky military solution, the resolution lost whatever lilttle significance it had at that time. Right now, Kashmir issue and the above resolution is only an outdated artifact which only Pakistan is clutching at as a desperate ploy to divert attention from other explosive issues within the subcontinent that are totally contained within Pakistan. This we call burrying one's head in sand.

An excellent piece of what india want others to believe but has o grounds. india is keep more troops than Pakistan in Kashmir, if you dont mind. Withdrawal, my foot..

A nice underhanded attempt to use acts of terrorism (Mumbai) to add weight to the Kashmir arguement. Isnt by association, you are making the Kashmir war also an act of cross border terrorism against India. ??

But anyway, while highlighting costs of Kashmir issue to India, you do realize the manifold cost Pakistan is paying for supporting these acts of terrorism against India. In the words of your own govt, you are having a Mumbai like incident every week in Pakistan. Do you call those Dramas as well??

Like i said, you need to prove the allegations. Pakistan is not supporting anything but morally the Kashmiri freedom movement.

Stop the rhetorics, it just make one look like a fool.

Provide credible links which claims any recent infiltration that was just not dreamingly foiled by the brave BSF, but got hold of a few Jiahdis and also provide soe proof that can suggest the Pakistani establishment is helping the freedom fighters in men and/or material, or else keep mum!

 

[karan.1970]

Ok, another genius who equate Kashmir with Balochistan and FATA-so the remaining lines doesnt even merit a read.

Had you read the post, you would have realized that I did not equate the two.

 

[prodevelopment]

Acting funny or what?


You need to prove those accusations or else keep shut.

Or may be you can post a few of those links stating ' Pakistani terrorists tried to cross the LoC and in turn india found a few rabbits or perhaps (ecevn better) a pegion!'

Not trying to be funny. Just sad that's all.

For proof of those accusations of cross border terrorism, there is a mega-thread running over here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/52736-pro-freedom-insurgents-vs-indian-army.html

Changing the name of the thread does not change its contents.

That's your version of the story.

Just by 'believing' NAs as part of Kashmir wouldnt make them, almost all of you have been yapping about this but still no one has been able to prove it. So keep on dreaming and let us enjoy the lush greens of Pakistan's NAs.

See that's why I'm sad. I thought a think-tank advocating the UN resolutions would at least know where they would be applicable. Here's a map of 1947 Kashmir:

We have done whatever we like to what that belonged to us. Let's see if you can do any guud to that something except killing and raping that dont even belongs to you.

Whatever attrocities take place in Kashmir due to hightened tension are deplorable. Using those to fulfill your own personal agenda is even more deplorable.

Mumbai is a drama and it has been proved. Those whom you accused of roam freely today in Pakistan and would do so until you plan and execute another drama with a little bit more precision.



And as for the sheeshe thing, well your cold start BS and two front war had already sucked up shyt. Let's see what your land graber generals comes up with next.



We dont celebrate death of any human, its just the byproduct of your sick mentality. Celebrate was used by you not me. Being a soldier myself, i just feel demoralized watching men in uniform dieing in vain without achieving anything but disgrace, a stigmatic life and increased levels of mental sickness!

You have mentioned that you are a soldier yourself. That's why I'm leaving this rant alone, out of respect. Please do not post such things unless you want a fitting reply.

 

[Xeric]

Had you read the post, you would have realized that I did not equate the two.

The first line says it all and i dont have time that i can waste on absurdness while reading illogical concepts from some weak raconteur.

 

[karan.1970]

Exactly the manner that you have adopted in Afghanistan against Pakistan, right?

If that is the case (I dont believe it though), then yes.. A good turn deserves another..

BTW, please provide recent links that prove Pakistani involvement and supporting the freedom fighters there or else your yap is futile.

Forget the links. Go over the posts in this forum only for validating the support for the so called freedom struggle.

An excellent piece of what india want others to believe but has o grounds. india is keep more troops than Pakistan in Kashmir, if you dont mind. Withdrawal, my foot..

The resolution did not ask for withdrawl of Indian troops. The deployment of existing forces in Jammu & Kashmir is post 1989. As I said, post 1965, this resolution is considered defunct by India

Like i said, you need to prove the allegations. Pakistan is not supporting anything but morally the Kashmiri freedom movement.

Stop the rhetorics, it just make one look like a fool.

Provide credible links which claims any recent infiltration that was just not dreamingly foiled by the brave BSF, but got hold of a few Jiahdis and also provide soe proof that can suggest the Pakistani establishment is helping the freedom fighters in men and/or material, or else keep mum!

Its either me or the mods that will decide if I need to keep mum

So if you are maintaining a stance that the support to the so called Kashmir freedom movement is only moral, then Ok, I will take your word for it. But that doesnt change my post. You linked the Mumbai incident to the insurgency in J&K, which by association makes both of them as acts of terrorism. Also Pakistan has a Mumbai like incident every week. I am sure you dont call that drama. So dont do that with Mumbai as well. Loss of innocent Life whether in Mumbai, Kashmir or Lahore is always regrettable.