The funniest Darism till date - To beg IMF on my own terms

[Mav3rick]

And commando succumbed to Saudis, Just like he did to India in Kargil?

The commando did not succumb to India, it was your PM Sharif that capitulated to US pressure to withdraw forces from Kargil. And yes, Saudi Arabia has always been a different matter altogether and the brotherly ties do weigh on everyone.

Here are the figures
1998 23,009 Million USD
1999 26,735
2000 26,589
2001 26,966
2002 27,773
2003 28,487
2004 28,847
2005 29,630
2006 32,550
2007 37,535
2008 39,916
http://www.sbp.org.pk/departments/stats/PakEconomy_HandBook/Chap-9.4.pdf

Again, I must say that your self claimed financial specialist tag is looking increasingly shady as you did post the figures above but failed to read the lines following them, let me post them here:

1.Outstanding of IBRD and IDA includes exchange adjustments, based on World Bank Statements.
2.Total excludes 12.1 million as insurance recoveries in respect of Tarbela repairs contributed by Various Countries
3.Tables contains only Public & Publically Guaranteed Position excluding Military Debt & IMF

So, basically you failed to mention the 2 most important aspects of our Debt, 1. IMF and 2. The most excruciatingly painful, although extremely important, Military Debt!! With these included, the debt jumps to 42+ Billion USD!! I have gone through the following link and although it does not include overall Military debt, specially the amount owed to the US & UK Governments, it does however explain things beautifully along its relationship (in percentage) to the GDP, yearly.

And secondly while Mushi maintained this at 60, the forex reserves exhausted in 2007 (as exchange rate inteventions to make it stable at and then came the famous jump to 80+ from 60 within weeks.

Similarly, while it was held steady and stable by the Musharraf regime, the same was allowed to settle wherever the Government felt comfortable. Not just that, the massive printing of currency kept devaluing the rupee against the $ to the point where we stand today. Under Musharraf, not only the $ held steady at 60, there were massive subsidies on many everyday utilities and commodities yet the financial condition of the country and of the common man continued to get better and better.

Direct taxes to total taxes (Direct+Indirect) ratio
1996 29.16%
1997 30.15%
1998 35.14%
1999 35.72%
2000 32.54%
2001 31.76%
2002 35.29%
2003 31.60%
2004 31.67%
2005 30.97%
2006 31.96%
2007 38.19%
2008 38.39%
http://www.sbp.org.pk/departments/stats/PakEconomy_HandBook/Chap-3.1.pdf
So except for last two years Mushi Admin's direct tax/ total tax ratio was lower than where N left it in 1999.

I post this:

So Musharraf was actually making people poorer by lowering taxes, lowering interest rates, lowering USD, giving massive subsidies on everyday commodities and electricity and in general by allowing the common man access to personal transport, accommodation, mobile and financial security? Hmm.....

And you could only come up with the ratio of direct to indirect taxes? Very smart. Now, try to read my post again and kindly post a reply that is worth something.

The total investment in one or two year is another thing but was Pakistan economy able to grow at consistent rate of 7% after or before 2006-2007? Two years of outstanding growth and average growth before and after that doesn't mean a sustainable growth. It was also at the Middle of Mushi's government that power crisis started to emerge. Please do enlighten me how many magawatts were added to national grid during his tenure. How much investment in energy sector was made? The economy grows on real production.

You ask me how many megawatts were added to the national grid, and I will tell you that even today we have enough capacity to produce surplus electricity. You are not producing at your peak and I am sure you know why. Yet you are against Musharraf is not only a surprise, it is actually what I consider treason. This is the kind of thinking that has brought Pakistan where it is today.

 

[SBD-3]

The commando did not succumb to India, it was your PM Sharif that capitulated to US pressure to withdraw forces from Kargil. And yes, Saudi Arabia has always been a different matter altogether and the brotherly ties do weigh on everyone.





Again, I must say that your self claimed financial specialist tag is looking increasingly shady as you did post the figures above but failed to read the lines following them, let me post them here:

1.Outstanding of IBRD and IDA includes exchange adjustments, based on World Bank Statements.
2.Total excludes 12.1 million as insurance recoveries in respect of Tarbela repairs contributed by Various Countries
3.Tables contains only Public & Publically Guaranteed Position excluding Military Debt & IMF

Okey then tell me what would be the effect on debt figures if these positions are included since you seem to know more about the impact of these provinsions. (Remember my last post about the sovereign guarantee)

So, basically you failed to mention the 2 most important aspects of our Debt, 1. IMF and 2. The most excruciatingly painful, although extremely important, Military Debt!! With these included, the debt jumps to 42+ Billion USD!! I have gone through the following link and although it does not include overall Military debt, specially the amount owed to the US & UK Governments, it does however explain things beautifully along its relationship (in percentage) to the GDP, yearly.





Similarly, while it was held steady and stable by the Musharraf regime, the same was allowed to settle wherever the Government felt comfortable. Not just that, the massive printing of currency kept devaluing the rupee against the $ to the point where we stand today. Under Musharraf, not only the $ held steady at 60, there were massive subsidies on many everyday utilities and commodities yet the financial condition of the country and of the common man continued to get better and better.





I post this:



And you could only come up with the ratio of direct to indirect taxes? Very smart. Now, try to read my post again and kindly post a reply that is worth something.





You ask me how many megawatts were added to the national grid, and I will tell you that even today we have enough capacity to produce surplus electricity. You are not producing at your peak and I am sure you know why. Yet you are against Musharraf is not only a surprise, it is actually what I consider treason. This is the kind of thinking that has brought Pakistan where it is today.

1- I am not a financial expert. I neither claim any expertise and more importantly I am not interested in promoting myself as "financial expert" here. I post whatever i know or have studied in my textbooks and the day to day routine.
2- I posted the reverent information. So if you have come accross anything contradictory to whatever I have posted, do come forth with that. I'll be glad if you can present any information that contradicts mine. Mere verbatim without any evidence is worth little.

 

[Leader]

 

[Mav3rick]

Okey then tell me what would be the effect on debt figures if these positions are included since you seem to know more about the impact of these provinsions. (Remember my last post about the sovereign guarantee)

Bhai it's quite simple really. Musharraf was on the right track, given another 10 years he may have been able to eliminate our external debt, internal debt was already non existent or negligible. He always stated that he had a 20 year plan for Pakistan, too bad it was terminated prematurely by our real enemy, democracy.

Lets just talk layman ok? Tell me, was the common man much better or much worse off under Musharraf?

1- I am not a financial expert. I neither claim any expertise and more importantly I am not interested in promoting myself as "financial expert" here. I post whatever i know or have studied in my textbooks and the day to day routine.
2- I posted the reverent information. So if you have come accross anything contradictory to whatever I have posted, do come forth with that. I'll be glad if you can present any information that contradicts mine. Mere verbatim without any evidence is worth little.

I tried to do exactly that, please refer to my earlier post.

 

[SBD-3]

Bhai it's quite simple really. Musharraf was on the right track, given another 10 years he may have been able to eliminate our external debt, internal debt was already non existent or negligible. He always stated that he had a 20 year plan for Pakistan, too bad it was terminated prematurely by our real enemy, democracy.

The debt kept mounting as the data shows. And btw I am still awaiting the explaination of your points. I said it again and again and saying it again. If you have any stats that show the external debt of Pakistan was declining, by all means share them with us.

Lets just talk layman ok? Tell me, was the common man much better or much worse off under Musharraf?

1-I didn't present the ratio for nothing, the ratio of direct taxes to total taxes repesent the extent of progressive taxation in the economy. If you have any interpertation contrary to that please by all means share it with me. I'll be glad to hear.
2- Here's the thing about Mushi's successful FX maintainence (Eventhough economically nominal exchange rate is self balancing)

You can also verify this from
Forex.pk - Open Market Rates - Currency Convertor - Currency Charts - Forex News - Gold Rates for open market
and from SBP's official exchange evaluations for interbank market as well
Economic Data - M2M History

I tried to do exactly that, please refer to my earlier post.

Please highlight a single one for us. I could find a single one
And yes here are the stats about installed capacity where democratic governments added around 10000MV to national grid in 9 years (1990-1999) where as commando could just add 2000MV roughly in 8 years.
http://www.sbp.org.pk/departments/stats/PakEconomy_HandBook/Chap-2.2.pdf
Now what I want to see are stats which you may have against these. You're free to use worldbank, Imf, UNESCO, UNIDO etc. But your reply should be backed by solid stats. And you still need to reply my earlier question regarding soveriegn guarantee and its impact.

 

[Fracker]

I don't know what kind of currency exchange dealer your father is, but I know what the rate of USD was in 1999 because we were one of the many affected by the NS govt.'s decision to freeze FCAs. Open market rate went as high as 84 after Kargil & just before Musharraf assumed power.

Sahi hey, I am wrong all online rates are wrong. Only you who don't even sit in the market is right. Jhootay pay khuda ki lanat.. Enough said.

 

[Mav3rick]

Sahi hey, I am wrong all online rates are wrong. Only you who don't even sit in the market is right. Jhootay pay khuda ki lanat.. Enough said.

Jhooton pe Allah ki laanat, that's for sure. Waise konsa working online link paste kia tha tum ne from the year 1999???

 

[Fracker]

Jhooton pe Allah ki laanat, that's for sure. Waise konsa working online link paste kia tha tum ne from the year 1999???

Check my Previous Post.. you can search previous dates.. similarly there are many online website where you can check the historical rates

 

[Mav3rick]

Check my Previous Post.. you can search previous dates.. similarly there are many online website where you can check the historical rates

I tried to do that, it's not working. I tried other ways too, couldn't find any open market currency converter from 1999.