The Filth in Erdogan's Closet

[Developereo]

I'm American....and I've known about the Armenian issue loooong before Erdogan was around. But nice try....

You are an academic. The general public doesn't know Armenia from Azerbaijan, and certainly not what (allegedly) happened at the turn of the twentieth century.

And the demon Jooo lobby is very effective....we all eat Christian babies at Thanksgiving now....

The Israel lobby consists of more than just Jews. One of the most hardcore supporter groups -- far more fanatical compared to liberal Jews -- is probably the (Southern) evangelicals.

 

[Juice]

When I was younger I felt bad for the Palestinians...and hoped for a decent solution. It looked soooo close to an agreement. But then when Israel made a few concessions....the Palestinians kicked off the Intifada. I know darn well the few concession were "no big shakes" as you put it. But my idea of working out a solution would have been "take the offer, show you can be good neighbors and work on a better deal then. The Palestinians took the path of "they showed weakness! go nuts and try to grab it all!" Now I won't get into wether or not the creation of Irael was fair. (I am a strict non-revanchist...even though I at least admit they had a kingdom there 1000's of years ago...denying this makes people look like idiots). But they aren't gonna throw up their arms and march into the sea...no matter how many times you click your heels and wish real hard. After 9/11 and the Palestinians celebrating...I lost the last little sympathy I have for them. Israel did not need to "tell" me who to support.

And if you have read my other post....I know there is a "tiered" system of citizenship in Israel. And it is STILL better than most neighbors.

 

[hussain0216]

Israel's time is limited, its in a tough situation.

It eventually needs the palestinian and muslim population around it to give up so it can live a normal life.

However they have the problem of a rising muslim population in both israel, the west bank and Gaza

They are occupying and suppressing millions of people and this can go on only for so long. The pressure on israel is increasing & if you study israeli news and sites you will know they are begining to feel it

 

[A1Kaid]

Western media especially the likes of NYtimes is not a stooge of the govt. You have a fundamental misunderstanding or ignorance when it comes to them. Sure there are media sources that are bais... but large media houses like NYtimes ????

come on now- if you are even a casual reader of the NY times, you would know that they have had daming articles about the US government, put unfavorable articles busting the US govt on many things- forced legislation changes because of the secrets they have brought to light. And there are many news organizations like NYtimes in west that are the pinnacle of journalism.

you chose to have knee jerk reaction to post and I still can't understand this fixation with Israel . NY times has written many articles daming Israel stances on many issues. Mostly fair and some debatable

Fool, he's right no matter how your a.. kissing Indian-American self tries to spin it. The fact is NY Times is a Jewish and Zionist pro-Israel newspaper and probably even receives funding from Jewish lobbyist groups. They rarely criticize Israel, or expose corruption in Israel, or terrorists activities done by Israel. They are targeting PM Erdogan because they dislike his center-right pro-Islam party which has been bad for Israel.

You really think NY Times cares about corruption? There are hundreds of governments and many of them have corrupt politicians. Having a few million in "shoe boxes" this sht is ridiculous...

 

[Developereo]

When I was younger I felt bad for the Palestinians...

I am a bit reluctant to get into the details of the Israel-Palestine thing in this thread. My initial comment was merely that the NY Times' interest in Erdogan had more to do with his Israeli policies than his domestic corruption (which I don't deny).

 

[Juice]

You are an academic. The general public doesn't know Armenia from Azerbaijan, and certainly not what (allegedly) happened at the turn of the twentieth century.



The Israel lobby consists of more than just Jews. One of the most hardcore supporter groups -- far more fanatical compared to liberal Jews -- is probably the (Southern) evangelicals.

Yeah....Christian fundies and even moderate Christian groups support Israel. They actually get far more support from this than any "Jewish" lobby. If it weren't for many Christians and the whole "bible prophesy", they would have far less support (still plenty enough though...)

I am a bit reluctant to get into the details of the Israel-Palestine thing in this thread. My initial comment was merely that the NY Times' interest in Erdogan had more to do with his Israeli policies than his domestic corruption (which I don't deny).

You have to throw in the mix that he's from an Islamist party...which doesn't play well with an American audience, Isaeli policy or not.

 

[Developereo]

You have to throw in the mix that he's from an Islamist party...which doesn't play well with an American audience, Isaeli policy or not.

"Islamist" is a rather vague word bandied about by many people to discredit others.

I don't know Erdogan's "extreme" views, but some of his views and policies are actually more liberal than his secular opponents'.

For example, the right of women to wear a headscarf in public, including in educational institutions, is aligned more with the American style of inclusive secularism, which celebrates diversity, as opposed to the French style of draconian secularism, which denies and castigates diversity.

 

[Juice]

"Islamist" is a rather vague word bandied about by many people to discredit others.

I don't know Erdogan's "extreme" views, but some of his views and policies are actually more liberal than his secular opponents'.

For example, the right of women to wear a headscarf in public, including in educational institutions, is aligned more with the American style of inclusive secularism, which celebrates diversity, as opposed to the French style of draconian secularism, which denies and castigates diversity.

I don't have to tell you "liberalism" has its own agenda....same as everyone. While you could certainly argue that his loosening of the head-scarf policy was allowing freedoms...a hard core feminist faction on the left will see anything to do with head scarfs differently.

 

[Developereo]

I don't have to tell you "liberalism" has its own agenda....same as everyone. While you could certainly argue that his loosening of the head-scarf policy was allowing freedoms...a hard core feminist faction on the left will see anything to do with head scarfs differently.

Well, I was speaking of liberal principles rather than self-proclaimed liberals per se.

Lots of people call themselves liberal, but are not.

 

[JayAtl]

Fool, he's right no matter how your a.. kissing Indian-American self tries to spin it. The fact is NY Times is a Jewish and Zionist pro-Israel newspaper and probably even receives funding from Jewish lobbyist groups. They rarely criticize Israel, or expose corruption in Israel, or terrorists activities done by Israel. They are targeting PM Erdogan because they dislike his center-right pro-Islam party which has been bad for Israel.

You really think NY Times cares about corruption? There are hundreds of governments and many of them have corrupt politicians. Having a few million in "shoe boxes" this sht is ridiculous...

did not take long before the 'I see black helicopters coming against my ummah crowd got here'. spoken like a true conspiracist. I guess when you source of news is 'paranoid R us times'.... then lack of knowledge about NY times is expected