The Filth in Erdogan's Closet

[JayAtl]

I never said the control is 100%.

The Iranian deal is being pushed primarily by the Executive branch because, as a second term President, Obama doesn't have re-election worries. Congress is still doing its best to push the Israeli concerns.

are you really showing videos of a handful of folks to sustain an argument that is shown to have failed when facts are presented? look as I even showed you the latest - Iran deal . it flies in the face of any such conspiracies. are they Israeli lobbies , yes, are they strong yes, but ultimately we do want we want to do and not beholden to any " imaginary powerful lobby".

 

[Developereo]

are you really showing videos of a handful of folks to sustain an argument that is shown to have failed when facts are presented?

Exactly which 'facts' have you presented?

I already explained how the power of lobbies is not absolute; it is measured relative to other lobbies.
And I explained to you the (Executive v/s Legislative) dynamic of this deal with Iran. And I gave you the academic study about the Israeli lobby by Mearscheimer et al.

All you can come back with is "I don't want to believe you".

 

[JayAtl]

Exactly which 'facts' have you presented?

I already explained how the power of lobbies is not absolute; it is measured relative to other lobbies.
And I explained to you the (Executive v/s Legislative) dynamic of this deal with Iran. And I gave you the academic study about the Israeli lobby by Mearscheimer et al.

All you can come back with is "I don't want to believe you".

all you are doing an citing articles but no actual overwhelming actions . It is akin to just words . Show me the overwhelming actions. Every President has tempered Israel down, has worked towards a peace deal.

 

[Developereo]

all you are doing an citing articles but no actual overwhelming actions . It is akin to just words . Show me the overwhelming actions. Every President has tempered Israel down, has worked towards a peace deal.

RESOLUTIONS RELATED TO ISRAEL OPPOSED BY THE UNITED STATES

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/162419.pdf

That's just for 2010. Read the Mearsheimer book for more.

 

[JayAtl]

RESOLUTIONS RELATED TO ISRAEL OPPOSED BY THE UNITED STATES

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/162419.pdf

That's just for 2010. Read the Mearsheimer book for more.

those are just resolutions... UN has no power and we all know that. a resolution can't be enforced on Israel if they don't want to. How did resolution world out on saddam, he ignored it. How is working on syria?

actions that US has taken on Israel and in that theater is what is more important. actions where israel has given up lands like Gaza, west bank etc. mean a lot more. Actions where we support the economy and growth of the Fatah dominated areas and then the subtle behind the scenes pressure we put on Israel.

 

[Developereo]

those are just resolutions... UN has no power and we all know that. a resolution can't be enforced on Israel if they don't want to. How did resolution world out on saddam, he ignored it. How is working on syria?

actions that US has taken on Israel and in that theater is what is more important. actions where israel has given up lands like Gaza, west bank etc. mean a lot more. Actions where we support the economy and growth of the Fatah dominated areas and then the subtle behind the scenes pressure we put on Israel.

US support in UN shields Israel from international pressure and accountability. As for US economic and military aid to Israel, it's well known, so no point mentioning it. Also worth noting the US duplicity on Israel's (alleged) nukes v/s everyone else's.

If the US applied the same yardstick to Israel that it applies to others, it would have pushed for sanctions against Israel on any number of occasions.

US help to Palestinians is no big shake. It's peanuts compared to the help given to Israel.

 

[JayAtl]

US support in UN shields Israel from international pressure and accountability. As for US economic and military aid to Israel, it's well known, so no point mentioning it. Also worth noting the US duplicity on Israel's (alleged) nukes v/s everyone else's.

If the US applied the same yardstick to Israel that it applies to others, it would have pushed for sanctions against Israel on any number of occasions.

US help to Palestinians is no big shake. It's peanuts compared to the help given to Israel.

no big shakes , what have you guys done? where are you in the peace process? what have you accomplished to help the situation towards peace ? zip , nada , nothing other than hollering and hooting and funding of terror groups and boat load of conspiracies

 

[Developereo]

no big shakes , what have you guys done? where are you in the peace process? what have you accomplished to help the situation towards peace ? zip , nada , nothing other than hollering and hooting and funding of terror groups and boat load of conspiracies

Utterly irrelevant to the question you posed.

 

[JayAtl]

Utterly irrelevant to the question you posed.

you claim there is this powerful Jewish cabal that influences US's actual actions. then when I give you examples of many things we have done that are fly in the face of the ' cabal'- you say what we have done is " no big shakes"...

and now when I challenge that assertion of no big shakes - you say " Utterly irrelevant to the question you posed"

Bottom line is, you claim these cabal theories, but refuse to see what we have to advance peace- contrary to this great influence you claim the jewish lobbies have over us and rather cast our efforts aside as no big shakes.

 

[Developereo]

you claim there is this powerful Jewish cabal that influences US's actual actions. then when I give you examples of many things we have done that are fly in the face of the ' cabal'- you say what we have done is " no big shakes"...

and now when I challenge that assertion of no big shakes - you say " Utterly irrelevant to the question you posed"

Bottom line is, you claim these cabal theories, but refuse to see what we have to advance peace- contrary to this great influence you claim the jewish lobbies have over us and rather cast our efforts aside as no big shakes.

What you fail to understand is that the US actions ostensibly in favor of Palestinians are necessary to maintain the charade of 'neutral arbiter' in the process.

Once again, you have failed to provide any evidence to counter the evidence that US policies are overwhelmingly in favor of Israel. All you can say is that the US throws an occasional bone to the Palestinians; a bone that is comically woeful compared to the economic, diplomatic and military support given to Israel.

 

[JayAtl]

What you fail to understand is that the US actions ostensibly in favor of Palestinians are necessary to maintain the charade of 'neutral arbiter' in the process.

Once again, you have failed to provide any evidence to counter the evidence that US policies are overwhelmingly in favor of Israel. All you can say is that the US throws an occasional bone to the Palestinians; a bone that is comically woeful compared to the economic, diplomatic and military support given to Israel.

Charade? once again you claim our efforts are charade or throwing bones and disrespect us.

what do benchmark against to give us this title of it being a " charade " ? Certainly not you islamic countries that only give freakling speeches and funding to Hamas.

You dismiss us while all that you guys do is, is jack towards peace.

you think we throw a bone at them? hell you don't even do that... this is your ummah not ours. We a christian Judea country do more than you do for your brethren. all you do is yap and bad mouth us... while having no clue / idea or desire to enter the peace process.

all you do- blah blah jews are evil. If we did / acted like your one sided talk , palestinians would be doomed.

 

[Developereo]

all you do- blah blah jews are evil. If we did / acted like your one sided talk , palestinians would be doomed.

As an Indian, you haven't the faintest clue about the dynamics of the "Judaeo-Christian" country in which you live. Just parroting phrases you have picked up in the media doesn't qualify as debate. Neither does it make you sound educated or informed on the matter.

I provided you with academic evidence and voting records.

All you can come back with is that the US provided some money to the Palestinians and the pathetic "anti-Semitism" shield.

Educate yourself about your adopted country before wasting my time.

 

[JayAtl]

As an Indian, you haven't the faintest clue about the dynamics of the "Judaeo-Christian" country in which you live. Just parroting phrases you have picked up in the media doesn't qualify as debate. Neither does it make you sound educated or informed on the matter.

I provided you with academic evidence has voting records.

All you can come back with is that the US provided some money to the Palestinians and the pathetic "anti-Semitism" shield.

Educate yourself about your adopted country before wasting my time.

BS - I challenged you to show what you have done for the peace process!

all you do is freaking whine about the other side, negate the existence of the other side.

I ask you again, what have you done towards the peace process other than demonize us on the other side?

You guys are a one trick pony of just complaining- while having done jack for your brethren. Come on tell me what do you bring to the table other demonize the other side?

had the US taken your POV about palestinians, they would be doomed...

this is you - " blah blah other side is bad and evil" ... just freaking talk

 

[Developereo]

BS - I challenged you to show what you have done for the peace process!

Because it is irrelevant to the question of Israeli lobby's influence on Washington.

Just because you couldn't come back with anything to counter the evidence provided, you are running off into a tangent and desperately seeking refuge in the old standby of anti-Semitism.

The question here isn't what other countries have or haven't done; the question is whether the US foreign policy is heavily tilted in favor of Israel v/s the Palestinians.

Once again, educate yourself about your adopted country and the dynamics of the Israeli lobby. I already gave you the academic references and voting patterns. If you choose not to learn about the subject, that's not my problem.

 

[Juice]

This is not about Erdogan at all. Yes, he has exceeded power, like all politicians do. If you think the Western media gives a damn about the well being of ordinary Turks, you are wrong.

The Western media turned on Turkey (Armenian genocide, etc.) as soon as Turkey/Israel relations soured.

I'm American....and I've known about the Armenian issue loooong before Erdogan was around. But nice try....


And the demon Jooo lobby is very effective....we all eat Christian babies at Thanksgiving now....and we are throwing a ticker-tape parade for Pollard soon...