THE F16 DILLEMA---PAF HAS GONE TOO FAR--NO MORE F16's PLEASE

[Sully3]

Cant see PAF inducting a new fighter for the next decade atleast. Baring any sanctions they will try to get the f16 number to 100 and by then they would have inducted 150/200 f17's depending on the facilities being added at PAC Karama.

So maybe in 2025 PAF will be looking to induct a 5th generation fighter

 

[Xracer]

Turkey can also produce F16 cant we Purchase for them??????????????

 

[rockstar08]

@MastanKhan why don't you come back to Pakistan and start Protesting against the PAF ?

you have written so many letters to ISPR and so .. seems like you got connections

why not bring change in PAF ? making threads on PDF will get you nothing but the moderators will be enjoying the business

 

[asia2000]

new 8 f-16 cost us $1.5bln and that money we can have 2 sqd of J-10C and weapon package can also be integrated on JF-17...

Seems F16 cost too much. In comparison, China's 24 su-35 only $2 billion. Pakistan should really go for su-35.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Turkey can also produce F16 cant we Purchase for them??????????????

nO tHEY CANT

 

[Donatello]

Apart from getting F-16s from USA, PAF should also focus of getting used F-16s from other nations looking forward to upgrade their fleets, and upgrade them domestically with Turkish help.

Hain?

Bhai Saheb, you would still the need LM and their parallels as the primary contractor because they supply the kits. That again, has to be approved by congress.

 

[New World]

Seems F16 cost too much. In comparison, China's 24 su-35 only $2 billion. Pakistan should really go for su-35.

f-16 comes with weapon packages and maintenance and the salary of american employees is far greater than those of chinese and Russians employees...
yes, Su-35 are comparable to f-16 in price but indian pressure is still high in russia..
su-35 are still hard to induct unless indian did some blunder in their relation with Russia..

 

[sohail.ishaque]

f-16 comes with weapon packages and maintenance and the salary of american employees is far greater than those of chinese and Russians employees...
yes, Su-35 are comparable to f-16 in price but indian pressure is still high in russia..
su-35 are still hard to induct unless indian did some blunder in their relation with Russia..

They r working on that....

 

[Kakaspai]

Hi,

Thank you---30 J10C's will beat 8 F16's anytime of the day---. The PL8 wvr is a massive equalizer in close combat.

Sir i have been reading that f16 is the best option because we have all the infrastructure and training support for the f16 so it will be lie plug and play.I want to ask you how long will it take to fully operate j10 c if we ever induct it ?

 

[544_delta]

J-10C the alternative being proposed - How many of them have been inducted in PLAAF? Have they been combat tested? Is there any data available about the cost, availability rates, quality of avionics, maintenance and spare requirement etc.

Have they been fielded for exports and any country evaluated them to their satisfaction?

What is being proposed here is to replace a battle proven, modern jet with all the 4.5 Gen features with what is an excellent jet on paper. Further there has been no price discovery of J-10C in international market and no other country has opted or expressed interest.

If J-10C was such a miracle jet then I would have hoped atleast the GCC countries to have expressed interest.

this right here.....f-16 is a battle proven aircraft that always delivers its the best thing we can have under current conditions plus what other plausible option is out there? most of the chinese stuff is in development and nobody else will sell us 5th gen stuff (or even 4++)

 

[araz]

What we are seeing is the problem of being a small country in a politcally charged environment. The opener of thread has made speculative use of the retrospectoscope to mark a decision as incorrect. For you to be able to say that is to have foresight beyond the realms of possibility.
PAF procured the first batch of F16s in 1984. With that batch we sealed our fate in committing to a nation which had a record of sanctioning us. Yet there were not many descenting voices then. Come 1990 and we are sanctioned. We had 40 planes of which 37 were active. I would understand if someone says that the whole thought process was wrong and we should have gone for the French lock stock and barrel.
However once the sanctions were lifted and we became the darling of US eyes our fate had already been sealed as we had made provisio s for 110 planes and built infrastructure for them. We worted our economic situation out and started looking around. But the US was not playing ball with us till 2002-03. Now if we had ditched the US then we had the options of taking on 2nd hand M2K5s or going for Rafale. We tried the Gripin but were politely but firmly rebuffed. We did not want a twin engined plane and the M2K offer was for 60 million a plane refurbished plus arms. It is the financial aspect of the deal which made M2K deal too expensive. Plus the assembly line had already shut and spares would have been even more expensive. So we made a logical decision to bide our time with more 16s MLUed and new andmade the deal large enough to make Lockmart greedy and bite and once we got approval we reduced numbers with a view to keeping them coming for more business. We had planned right but not on the political scene where Zardari Dacait say on the throne and looted everything in sight along with money for procurement of arms. The only good thing that has happened is that JFT has come on line inspite of very stiff opposition from our friends and masters. The time for the remaining planes elapsed and we are now in the doledrums. We have cunningly asked them to supply us with 8 more planes from FMF but they are not playing ball with us at the moment. The subsequent step depend on US assessment of its need for us. If the Afghanistan issue continue to em roil the US they will give the planes to us. Otherwise we have to look else where. Contrary to peoples enthusiasm for J10 series, the recent accidents point to a possible structural and engine issues which still need resolving. So we are not going anywhere with our acquisitions till 2018. So it will be more of JFTS irrespective of whether 16s arrive or not. The eventual target is J31 which will be modified for PAF use and will most likely be our next acquisition irrespective of whether there are more 16s arriving or not.
My 2 paisas worth.
A

 

[rockstar08]

What we are seeing is the problem of being a small country in a politcally charged environment. The opener of thread has made speculative use of the retrospectoscope to mark a decision as incorrect. For you to be able to say that is to have foresight beyond the realms of possibility.
PAF procured the first batch of F16s in 1984. With that batch we sealed our fate in committing to a nation which had a record of sanctioning us. Yet there were not many descenting voices then. Come 1990 and we are sanctioned. We had 40 planes of which 37 were active. I would understand if someone says that the whole thought process was wrong and we should have gone for the French lock stock and barrel.
However once the sanctions were lifted and we became the darling of US eyes our fate had already been sealed as we had made provisio s for 110 planes and built infrastructure for them. We worted our economic situation out and started looking around. But the US was not playing ball with us till 2002-03. Now if we had ditched the US then we had the options of taking on 2nd hand M2K5s or going for Rafale. We tried the Gripin but were politely but firmly rebuffed. We did not want a twin engined plane and the M2K offer was for 60 million a plane refurbished plus arms. It is the financial aspect of the deal which made M2K deal too expensive. Plus the assembly line had already shut and spares would have been even more expensive. So we made a logical decision to bide our time with more 16s MLUed and new andmade the deal large enough to make Lockmart greedy and bite and once we got approval we reduced numbers with a view to keeping them coming for more business. We had planned right but not on the political scene where Zardari Dacait say on the throne and looted everything in sight along with money for procurement of arms. The only good thing that has happened is that JFT has come on line inspite of very stiff opposition from our friends and masters. The time for the remaining planes elapsed and we are now in the doledrums. We have cunningly asked them to supply us with 8 more planes from FMF but they are not playing ball with us at the moment. The subsequent step depend on US assessment of its need for us. If the Afghanistan issue continue to em roil the US they will give the planes to us. Otherwise we have to look else where. Contrary to peoples enthusiasm for J10 series, the recent accidents point to a possible structural and engine issues which still need resolving. So we are not going anywhere with our acquisitions till 2018. So it will be more of JFTS irrespective of whether 16s arrive or not. The eventual target is J31 which will be modified for PAF use and will most likely be our next acquisition irrespective of whether there are more 16s arriving or not.
My 2 paisas worth.
A

Can a Block 52 or V configuration F-16 match Rafale in a Dog Fight ??

 

[The Eagle]

Indeed due to our love and passions for all of our Forces, we wan the best for them but we should not forget the political dilemma which hurt the most of our time. It would be not feasible here in such scenario to bash the decision of our forces which were always to asses the equipment only and the purchase was the job of political government which always loved to lick the US & West for only their kick backs. Due to the same most reason, PAF played the best & smart in past that what it can as per available resources though there would be few lacks but not like what some of the sources are trying to project before all over the world. If we were smarter than our men in Uniforms, definitely the some of us would have been ACM and COAS.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Can a Block 52 or V configuration F-16 match Rafale in a Dog Fight ??

Rafale Beat F-16 Block 52+ 6-2 in 2011

for me it's like
1. F-22
2. Eurofighter
3. Rafale
4. Gripen/Mig-35/F-16/F-18/Su- 30/J-10

What we are seeing is the problem of being a small country in a politcally charged environment. The opener of thread has made speculative use of the retrospectoscope to mark a decision as incorrect. For you to be able to say that is to have foresight beyond the realms of possibility.
PAF procured the first batch of F16s in 1984. With that batch we sealed our fate in committing to a nation which had a record of sanctioning us. Yet there were not many descenting voices then. Come 1990 and we are sanctioned. We had 40 planes of which 37 were active. I would understand if someone says that the whole thought process was wrong and we should have gone for the French lock stock and barrel.
However once the sanctions were lifted and we became the darling of US eyes our fate had already been sealed as we had made provisio s for 110 planes and built infrastructure for them. We worted our economic situation out and started looking around. But the US was not playing ball with us till 2002-03. Now if we had ditched the US then we had the options of taking on 2nd hand M2K5s or going for Rafale. We tried the Gripin but were politely but firmly rebuffed. We did not want a twin engined plane and the M2K offer was for 60 million a plane refurbished plus arms. It is the financial aspect of the deal which made M2K deal too expensive. Plus the assembly line had already shut and spares would have been even more expensive. So we made a logical decision to bide our time with more 16s MLUed and new andmade the deal large enough to make Lockmart greedy and bite and once we got approval we reduced numbers with a view to keeping them coming for more business. We had planned right but not on the political scene where Zardari Dacait say on the throne and looted everything in sight along with money for procurement of arms. The only good thing that has happened is that JFT has come on line inspite of very stiff opposition from our friends and masters. The time for the remaining planes elapsed and we are now in the doledrums. We have cunningly asked them to supply us with 8 more planes from FMF but they are not playing ball with us at the moment. The subsequent step depend on US assessment of its need for us. If the Afghanistan issue continue to em roil the US they will give the planes to us. Otherwise we have to look else where. Contrary to peoples enthusiasm for J10 series, the recent accidents point to a possible structural and engine issues which still need resolving. So we are not going anywhere with our acquisitions till 2018. So it will be more of JFTS irrespective of whether 16s arrive or not. The eventual target is J31 which will be modified for PAF use and will most likely be our next acquisition irrespective of whether there are more 16s arriving or not.
My 2 paisas worth.
A

Just a noobish ques.... What if J-31 don't come up till 2024.. or it also has engine problem...?

Cause i think Chinese main Focus is J-20 there isn't any Prototype out of J-31 Version 2 shown in Zuhai Air show... not even the prototype of first version....

 

[rockstar08]

Rafale Beat F-16 Block 52+ 6-2 in 2011

for me it's like
1. F-22
2. Eurofighter
3. Rafale
4. Gripen/Mig-35/F-16/F-18/Su- 30/J-10

than why are we so crazy about F-Shola ?
Saalay khassi rafale ko tu maar nai sakte ...