THE F16 DILLEMA---PAF HAS GONE TOO FAR--NO MORE F16's PLEASE

[New World]

Hi,

All through the 90's we cried about the sanctions----the withholding of our F16's by the americans for which we had already made the payments in advance.

Our air force became a skeleton---just an air force in name only and then came 9/11. The sanctions came off----a prudent person would have thought that the paf must have had a plan set up in place in advance that if the sanctions came of in this this and this year---this is the air craft that we will procure on a fastrak basis----and if the sanctions came off after the next 3 or 5 years then we might consider this other aircraft.

So---basically---one would assume that the moment the sanctions came off---the paf would be ready to jump in and make the deal happen to fill in the role of a much needed AIR SUPERIORITY fighter aircraft which they had assessed during the time of sanctions.

Now that the sanctions have come off, but there is no urgency on the part of the paf to fill in that big gaping hole where an air superiority fighter would fit in. A year passes nothing happens---two years pass---then three years pass and nothing comes up. And now right close to three and a half years agfter the sanctions came off---they decide to go for the F16 BLK52 for a number of 72 aircraft----and still there is no urgency to sign the deal.

The earthquake happens in kashmir----supposedly the funds are re-routed to other causes and what we are left is with 18 F16's. Then we decided to make our own fighter---which actually was in the process of being designed at that time.

What we needed was something like the ' right in your face ' kind of air superiority aircraft----to fill the TOP TIER hole---but our air force decided to go for a utility aircraft to start filling the bottom tier hole---with the aircraft we now call the JF 17---a wonderful aircraft by all means---but not what was needed for the local war scenario.

It has been 14 years since the sanctions came off---. We should have had a 150 F16 type aircraft by now and another 100 JF17 type aircraft---but poor decisions---bad planning---poor judgement----has brought us down to 60 JF 17's and about 72 F16's MLU's and BLK52's etc put together. These two put together are similar in numbers of enemy's mirage 2k's and MIG 29's---and I am not even going to begin counting the twin engine air superiority fighters that the enemy has---the SU30---around 240 of them.

The chines J10 is ready---they started with the A---then the B package---an extremely potent air superiority aircraft---and then later they came up with a top notch the J10C version---with an aesa radar---a built in IRST package---and an excellent electronics warfare package for this aircraft.
The long range BVR missile the SD10 was already in operation---the next long range latest BVR missile the PL15 is also ready to be integrated---the high off bore sight missile is also ready to be integrated and this makes this J10C aircraft an extremely deadly air superiority fighter aircraft in the class of Eurofighter and the Rafale.

The paf should have switched over to the chinese J10C aircraft once it got into the production line----with the aesa and the latest chinese electronic warfare package---this aircraft would be superior to the BLK52 and a little less than the emirati BLK 60 but as good as the israeli soufa and in the due process of time---like around 5 years---with fresh upgrades---it would be competing with the Rafales and the Eruofighter head on.

But then the paf has waited till the last minute---. There is a stoppage by the U S congress on the F16 sale---. Rather than going for the F16----they should have signed a deal for the J10C and told the americans to hit the sand---and if the americans wanted the pakistani business---they would have come running back.
In major weapons purchase---time is of the ultimate essence.

You cannot be indecisive---humming and hawing---lollygagging---you have to be pro-active and make timely changes---because it takes many a years to INTEGRATE these new fancy machines into the system and learn to fly them and to use them to their maximum abilities----.

This love affair with the F16 of the pakistan air force has really hurt and damaged pakistan's strength to fight a war or defend its skies with its arch enemy.

We are left so far behind in this battle---that it is not even funny at this stage.

new 8 f-16 cost us $1.5bln and that money we can have 2 sqd of J-10C and weapon package can also be integrated on JF-17...

and many congratz to the US congress for stopping sale of F-16

 

[Jaam92]

Sir what will we do during PAK India war? US will tech all software of f16 to India now a day they both are in love affair.

do not underestimate pakistani Scientist and technology

 

[jamal18]

You are forgetting that once the infrastructural support for the f-16 was in place, it automatically became the best option for the choice of further aircraft.

By now let's hope our technicians have reached the level that they can support the aircraft without US help. There is no doubt that at some stage the US will re-impose sanctions.

 

[MastanKhan]

new 8 f-16 cost us $1.5bln and that money we can have 2 sqd of J-10C and weapon package can also be integrated on JF-17...

and many congratz to the US congress for stopping sale of F-16

Hi,

Thank you---30 J10C's will beat 8 F16's anytime of the day---. The PL8 wvr is a massive equalizer in close combat.

 

[Paksanity]

Hi,

Thank you---30 J10C's will beat 8 F16's anytime of the day---. The PL8 wvr is a massive equalizer in close combat.

F-16 is the most wise choice, PAF can make if we consider the capability only. J-10C is twice the cost and half the capability. You sir, living in U.S. should be aware of quality of U.S. engineering. There is absolutely nothing that comes even close to US military hardware at that price point.

PAF only recommends the suitable aircraft. They don't have control over budget allocation and diplomacy involved therein. That is the domain of so called democratic governments. Asif Zardari, Hussain Haqqani, Nawaz Sharif, Ishaq Dar and Shaukat Tareen can really answer your questions. Not the PAF.

 

[Imran Khan]

no we are crazy nation even in 2042 we will looking for F-16

 

[Spectre]

J-10C the alternative being proposed - How many of them have been inducted in PLAAF? Have they been combat tested? Is there any data available about the cost, availability rates, quality of avionics, maintenance and spare requirement etc.

Have they been fielded for exports and any country evaluated them to their satisfaction?

What is being proposed here is to replace a battle proven, modern jet with all the 4.5 Gen features with what is an excellent jet on paper. Further there has been no price discovery of J-10C in international market and no other country has opted or expressed interest.

If J-10C was such a miracle jet then I would have hoped atleast the GCC countries to have expressed interest.

 

[Super Falcon]

This love affair will be ended by ending arrers of old minded people in PAF
after joy ride on EF i thought sohail aman should learned some thing why two engine jets re important but he is too busy to lauch fazaya town

J-10C the alternative being proposed - How many of them have been inducted in PLAAF? Have they been combat tested? Is there any data available about the cost, availability rates, quality of avionics, maintenance and spare requirement etc.

Have they been fielded for exports and any country evaluated them to their satisfaction?

What is being proposed here is to replace a battle proven, modern jet with all the 4.5 Gen features with what is an excellent jet on paper. Further there has been no price discovery of J-10C in international market and no other country has opted or expressed interest.

If J-10C was such a miracle jet then I would have hoped atleast the GCC countries to have expressed interest.

Combat tested is not important if u stuck to testing combat than in 80s F 16 was not fully tested in war why u bought yhem in 83 when it as not tested

 

[帅的一匹]

F-16 is the most wise choice, PAF can make if we consider the capability only. J-10C is twice the cost and half the capability. You sir, living in U.S. should be aware of quality of U.S. engineering. There is absolutely nothing that comes even close to US military hardware at that price point.

PAF only recommends the suitable aircraft. They don't have control over budget allocation and diplomacy involved therein. That is the domain of so called democratic governments. Asif Zardari, Hussain Haqqani, Nawaz Sharif, Ishaq Dar and Shaukat Tareen can really answer your questions. Not the PAF.

Twice the price and half capability. If that is a insult, I don't buy it. You seems don't give it a think before you write.

 

[帅的一匹]

J-10C the alternative being proposed - How many of them have been inducted in PLAAF? Have they been combat tested? Is there any data available about the cost, availability rates, quality of avionics, maintenance and spare requirement etc.

Have they been fielded for exports and any country evaluated them to their satisfaction?

What is being proposed here is to replace a battle proven, modern jet with all the 4.5 Gen features with what is an excellent jet on paper. Further there has been no price discovery of J-10C in international market and no other country has opted or expressed interest.

If J-10C was such a miracle jet then I would have hoped atleast the GCC countries to have expressed interest.

Combat tested? Have F22 being combat tested? If a fighter didn't fight, it could included in the bracket of junk? J10c is only for PAF, we not gonna sell it to India sir. A promise of unique and only user of J10 c is from China. GCC country is not trusted as they get too close with USA and NATO, they prefer expensive stuff to the most. If India can produce advanced fighter like J10c, I can assure you will be like standing on the peak of a mountain.

Firstly please fix you LCA right and then we talk how J10c is.

 

[Paksanity]

Twice the price and half capability. If that is a insult, I don't buy it. You seems don't give it a think before you write.

No disrespect intended to Chinese but US aircraft are far ahead in technology. They are also much easy in terms of operating cost. There is good reason behind their reputation.

 

[Spectre]

Combat tested is not important if u stuck to testing combat than in 80s F 16 was not fully tested in war why u bought yhem in 83 when it as not tested

Ok. How about price what is LCC of J-10 C ? only knowing that you can arrive at a comparison

Combat tested? Have F22 being combat tested? If a fighter didn't fight, it could included in the bracket of junk? J10c is only for PAF, we not gonna sell it to India sir. A promise of unique and only user of J10 c is from China. GCC country is not trusted as they get too close with USA and NATO, they prefer expensive stuff to the most. If India can produce advanced fighter like J10c, I can assure you will be like standing on the peak of a mountain.

Firstly please fix you LCA right and then we talk how J10c is.

F-22 has flown many many missions and have deployed overseas, participated in various multilateral exercises.

As for other part Pakistan is as close to US as GCC.

The comparison is not between Tejas and J-10C but F-16V and J-10 C on various parameters like availability, maintenance, avionics quality, price etc so dont go off topic and troll

 

[Muhammad Omar]

This can Serve PAF as Mirage replacement

 

[Viper0011.]

Fifth Generation is not coming till 2025....

we would only have JF-17 and F-16 till 2025 while F-7 and Mirage will be retired

There should be one Other Platform That should replace Mirages

I keep saying. Buy FC-20, block C with TOT or even internal manufacturing rights. Then, turn this into a Block IV of the JFT. This would fill ALL gaps that exist in between the JFT and the F-16's. And will prove out to be a well worth JV or investment on Pakistan's end. Theoretically, you could even develop a Stealthy JFT block 5 by adding Stealth capability to this FC-20C air-frame and avionics. This acquisition would put you in the same category as Rafale and EFT and you wouldn't need to buy another foreign jet as you can modernize it as you please. And even introduce a stealthy version too!!

This can Serve PAF as Mirage replacement

Exactly what I've been saying for a while. But not the "B", instead block "C" for Pakistan as a JFT block IV plan internally produced and never worry about buying another thing from the outside, unless someone is giving you guys a serious deal on the price and capability

 

[Path-Finder]

i saw the mention of Off boresight missile by the our forum member ho started the thread. isn't A-darter & PL-10 off boresight capable? Which will be for JF-17 thus making the purchase of more F16 redundant? (understanding that both are in development)