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The F-16s Go Round And Round

illusion8

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March 5, 2014: Pakistan recently bought 13 older F-16A fighters from Jordan. These F-16As had recently undergone a mid-life update and have, on average, 3,000 flight hours left. This increases the Pakistani F-16 fleet to 76 aircraft. This is far less than the Indian Su-30 fleet (over 200 and headed for 300 in the next few years), but every F-16 helps Pakistan in a potential air war with India.


Meanwhile Jordan has also been buying Cold War surplus F-16s to update its own air force. Back in 2006 Jordan bought 20 Cold War F-16s from the Netherlands. Jordan already had 35 used F-16s (from the United States and the Netherlands.) Most of these aircraft are upgraded with late model radars and electronics. Jordan got all these aircraft at about a third the price of new aircraft. Even with the recent sale to Pakistan that still leaves 46 F-16Cs in the Jordanian air force.


Pakistan also has a growing number of more modern F-16s. Back in 2012 they received three F-16 Block 52 fighters. These are all-weather aircraft that are particularly effective at night. These were the first all-weather fighters the Pakistani Air Force had received and another 15 of these aircraft were delivered by 2011. Pakistan had operated 40 F-16 since the 1990s, but was barred from buying any more after Pakistan revealed that it had nuclear weapons in 1998. That embargo was lifted in 2005 and another 14 F-16s were delivered by 2008.


Pakistan also hired a Turkish firm to upgrade its older F-16s from Block 15 configuration to Block 40 (about halfway to the highest upgrade level for an F-16). Now that the U.S. has lifted its arms embargo on Pakistan, there are many firms competing for all the work needed to update older American weapons still used by Pakistan. The Turks have long had good trade relations with Pakistan, and have also developed, with the help of the U.S. and Israel, a growing aircraft maintenance and upgrade industry. Most of the F-16 work was be done in Pakistan using Turkish engineers and technicians supervising some local workers and using largely imported (from Turkey and elsewhere) components. Turkey has long maintained one the largest F-16 fleets outside of the United States.


The F-16 is the most numerous post-Cold War jet fighter, with over 4,200 built, and still in production. During The Cold War, Russia built over 10,000 MiG-21s, and the U.S over 5,000 F-4s. Since the 1980s warplane production has plummeted about 90 percent. Yet since the end of the Cold War in 1991 the F-16 has been popular enough to keep the production lines going.


The U.S. F-16 is one of the most modified jet fighters in service. While most are still called the F-16C, there are actually six major mods, identified by block number (32, 40, 42, 50, 52, 60), plus the Israeli F-16I, which is a major additional modification of the Block 52. Another special version (the Block 60), for the UAE (United Arab Emirates) is called the F-16E. The F-16D is a two seat trainer version of F-16Cs. The various block mods included a large variety of new components (five engines, four sets of avionics, five generations of electronic warfare gear, five radars and many other mechanical, software, cockpit and electrical mods.)


The F-16 can also function as a bomber and ground attack aircraft, although not as effectively as the air force would have you believe. It can carry four tons of bombs. In air-to-air combat, it has shot down 69 aircraft so far, without losing anything to enemy warplanes. It was originally designed as a cheaper alternative to the heavier F-15.


The two most advanced versions of the F-16 are in use by foreign air forces. The UAE has 80 "Desert Falcons" (the F-16E) which is optimized for air combat. It is a 22 ton aircraft based on the Block 52 model, but with an AESA (phased array) radar and lots of other additional goodies.


The Israeli F-16I is optimized for bombing. It's a 24 ton, two seat aircraft, and is probably the most capable F-16 model in service. It's basically a modified version of the Block 52, equipped with a more advanced radar (the APG-68X) and the ability to carry Israeli weapons like the Python 4 air-to-air missile and the Popeye 2 air-to-surface missile. Costing $45 million each, the F-16I has an excellent navigation system, which allows it to fly on the deck (a few hundred feet from the ground), without working the pilot to death. The aircraft can do this at night or in any weather. The F-16I can carry enough fuel to hit targets 1,600 kilometers away (meaning Iran is within range). The aircraft uses the latest short and long range air-to-air missiles, as well as smart bombs. Electronic countermeasures are carried, as is a powerful computer system, which records the details of each sortie in great detail. This is a big help for training. The F-16I is basically optimized to deliver smart bombs anywhere, despite dense air defense


Since 2008 Pakistani F-16s have been heavily used in the tribal territories, along the Afghan border, dropping smart and dumb bombs, and giving the pilots experience using targeting pods. This is the first combat experience the Pakistani F-16s have received and the Pakistanis are satisfied with F-16 performance as a bomber.

Procurement: The F-16s Go Round And Round
 
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Israeli F16I - is it similar to the one that was offered in MMRCA? does the Israeli F16's have AESA radars?.
 
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First of all, I would like to send a general greetings from Brazil.

Regarding the Pakistani Air Force, I would like to know why buying F-16 old versions and pay huge amount of US Dollars to upgrade it instead of increase production of JF-17 which is capable fighter.

In the case of F-16, instead of buying war planes from US, seems to be more applicable increasing the production rate of the JF-17 and to concentrate efforts on the development of more capable versions of the aircraft, considering the JF-17 has a great future ahead of it, in contrast the F-16 is already on its limits.
 
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Israeli F16I - is it similar to the one that was offered in MMRCA? does the Israeli F16's have AESA radars?.

Negative on both counts - F16IN super viper with a APG80 AESA radar was offered for MMRCA unlike the APG68 radar on Israeli F16's.
 
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The US government prohibited Israel from installing AESA radar on the F-16I fighter, which is instead equipped with the mechanically scanned APG-68(V)9 radar.
Israeli F16I - is it similar to the one that was offered in MMRCA? does the Israeli F16's have AESA radars?.
 
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First of all, I would like to send a general greetings from Brazil.

Regarding the Pakistani Air Force, I would like to know why buying F-16 old versions and pay huge amount of US Dollars to upgrade it instead of increase production of JF-17 which is capable fighter.

In the case of F-16, instead of buying war planes from US, seems to be more applicable increasing the production rate of the JF-17 and to concentrate efforts on the development of more capable versions of the aircraft, considering the JF-17 has a great future ahead of it, in contrast the F-16 is already on its limits.

first of all Welcome to defence.pk, regarding your query about the purchase of old F-16 blk 15 (all will get MLU to bring them close to blk 52) you must understand that PAF is operating the same bird from last 30 years therefore all the required infrastructure is already in place, therefore it is a cost effective solution to increase the number and fire power of existing F-16 fleet by 20% & time saving of at least 2 to 2.5 years in terms of production & integration of a single squadron of 4 generation fighter plane.

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex have the ability to produce 16 units of JF-17 in routine production which can be increased up to 25, but production or increased number of production is not the issue it is the integration of the platform which take time as the support infrastructure at airbase and at squadron level is required to be built so that the platform could be operational in services.

PAF is matching the production rate with operational requirements which mean rate of production of JF-17 = number of platforms going to be retired.

In short it is not the case of JF17- vs F-16, both platforms have different roles in PAF.
 
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we have no any aggressive plans
i think paf is playing cards
 
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The Israeli F-16I is optimized for bombing. It's a 24 ton, two seat aircraft, and is probably the most capable F-16 model in service. It's basically a modified version of the Block 52, equipped with a more advanced radar (the APG-68X) and the ability to carry Israeli weapons like the Python 4 air-to-air missile and the Popeye 2 air-to-surface missile. Costing $45 million each, the F-16I has an excellent navigation system, which allows it to fly on the deck (a few hundred feet from the ground), without working the pilot to death. The aircraft can do this at night or in any weather.

Israel's F-16I, which is all in all a custom built fighter jet as per Israeli requirements. Its actually based on the 'Enhanced Strategic' model, allowing for further flight and greater payloads.

The nav system, has 2 purposes; 1. Obviously Nav. 2. Allows for the jet to 'hug' the ground lower than a radar system's altitude specifications can pick out planes.

The entire platform is different from your average F-16. F-16Is have more bulging and 'fairings?', Conformal Fuel Tanks, a dorsal spine, Almost all it's accessories are Israeli made, this is what sets it part from all the other F-16 variants.

Israeli's ability to test, and quickly modify the electronics to allow their battle hardened Pilots even greater survivability rates. They dont have to wait for the US to open the sensitive areas for maintenance or modifications, Israeli Air Force Mechanics can do it, on the spot, as many of them are deputized to Israeli Defense manufacturers.
 
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HVKK Vipers, guarding Turkish Airspace, contributing to allied operations (From Bosnia to Libya...etc.) for over 30 years. Turkish Air Force (HVKK) operates 270 F-16s. Turkey has Block 40/50/50+ variants. Block 40s are under CCIP and ASELPOD upgrade by TAI.

Turkish+F16s.jpg


wMZpma.jpg

407-20140130101845-408-20130722131941-73_t.jpg

752992_8757.jpg

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How come Israeli F-16I is superior to the UAE's F-16E Block 60?

F-16E carries an AESA radar, AIM-120D BVR (the most advance BVR weapon in the world), more powerful engine, and superior avionics as compared to F-16I.

F-16Is are specifically designed for an operation in Iran. Look it up.
 
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First of all, I would like to send a general greetings from Brazil.

Regarding the Pakistani Air Force, I would like to know why buying F-16 old versions and pay huge amount of US Dollars to upgrade it instead of increase production of JF-17 which is capable fighter.

In the case of F-16, instead of buying war planes from US, seems to be more applicable increasing the production rate of the JF-17 and to concentrate efforts on the development of more capable versions of the aircraft, considering the JF-17 has a great future ahead of it, in contrast the F-16 is already on its limits.

The Pakistani air force has been operating the F-16 for over 30 years, it has the infrastructure in place for it, it has training regimes and it knows very well how to fly and fight with the platform.The F-16 is still a very potent fighter and in its upgraded form very capable fighter bombers.

Additionally, the F-16 is now more of a medium weight fighter and has the ability to carry more payload than the JF-17. It also has more range on it. So the F-16 serves as the heavy end. deep strike element of the PAF while the JF-17 fits the general purpose air defense role.


And the article itself is so full of errors that calling it amateurish would be an insult to amateurs.
 
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Hi,

The most important art is that of integration. The moment the aircraft is in Pakistan,s hands, the pilots can use it to 100 % of its capabilities the same day---meaning there re no issues of integration.

We have pilots trained for F 16's, we have the infra structure, we have wvr and bvr missiles and all other paraphernalia to support this aircraft.

Basically, if we get these aircraft on the 30th of March, then on 1st of April, they are in operation full strength. That is what our immediate need was.

A full sqdrn of fighter aircraft is like or close to a fully equipped army strike division. Can you develop a strike division in 30 days.

This sqdrn gives us a massive bvr capability and night flight missions. Plus it fills out our flank very well.

For jf17, we will have to wait for two years for a sqdrn and then go thru integration. It is all about time. Jf17 will have its own place in the hierarchy.
 
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March 5, 2014: Pakistan recently bought 13 older F-16A fighters from Jordan. These F-16As had recently undergone a mid-life update and have, on average, 3,000 flight hours left. This increases the Pakistani F-16 fleet to 76 aircraft. This is far less than the Indian Su-30 fleet (over 200 and headed for 300 in the next few years), but every F-16 helps Pakistan in a potential air war with India.


Meanwhile Jordan has also been buying Cold War surplus F-16s to update its own air force. Back in 2006 Jordan bought 20 Cold War F-16s from the Netherlands. Jordan already had 35 used F-16s (from the United States and the Netherlands.) Most of these aircraft are upgraded with late model radars and electronics. Jordan got all these aircraft at about a third the price of new aircraft. Even with the recent sale to Pakistan that still leaves 46 F-16Cs in the Jordanian air force.


Pakistan also has a growing number of more modern F-16s. Back in 2012 they received three F-16 Block 52 fighters. These are all-weather aircraft that are particularly effective at night. These were the first all-weather fighters the Pakistani Air Force had received and another 15 of these aircraft were delivered by 2011. Pakistan had operated 40 F-16 since the 1990s, but was barred from buying any more after Pakistan revealed that it had nuclear weapons in 1998. That embargo was lifted in 2005 and another 14 F-16s were delivered by 2008.


Pakistan also hired a Turkish firm to upgrade its older F-16s from Block 15 configuration to Block 40 (about halfway to the highest upgrade level for an F-16). Now that the U.S. has lifted its arms embargo on Pakistan, there are many firms competing for all the work needed to update older American weapons still used by Pakistan. The Turks have long had good trade relations with Pakistan, and have also developed, with the help of the U.S. and Israel, a growing aircraft maintenance and upgrade industry. Most of the F-16 work was be done in Pakistan using Turkish engineers and technicians supervising some local workers and using largely imported (from Turkey and elsewhere) components. Turkey has long maintained one the largest F-16 fleets outside of the United States.


The F-16 is the most numerous post-Cold War jet fighter, with over 4,200 built, and still in production. During The Cold War, Russia built over 10,000 MiG-21s, and the U.S over 5,000 F-4s. Since the 1980s warplane production has plummeted about 90 percent. Yet since the end of the Cold War in 1991 the F-16 has been popular enough to keep the production lines going.


The U.S. F-16 is one of the most modified jet fighters in service. While most are still called the F-16C, there are actually six major mods, identified by block number (32, 40, 42, 50, 52, 60), plus the Israeli F-16I, which is a major additional modification of the Block 52. Another special version (the Block 60), for the UAE (United Arab Emirates) is called the F-16E. The F-16D is a two seat trainer version of F-16Cs. The various block mods included a large variety of new components (five engines, four sets of avionics, five generations of electronic warfare gear, five radars and many other mechanical, software, cockpit and electrical mods.)


The F-16 can also function as a bomber and ground attack aircraft, although not as effectively as the air force would have you believe. It can carry four tons of bombs. In air-to-air combat, it has shot down 69 aircraft so far, without losing anything to enemy warplanes. It was originally designed as a cheaper alternative to the heavier F-15.


The two most advanced versions of the F-16 are in use by foreign air forces. The UAE has 80 "Desert Falcons" (the F-16E) which is optimized for air combat. It is a 22 ton aircraft based on the Block 52 model, but with an AESA (phased array) radar and lots of other additional goodies.


The Israeli F-16I is optimized for bombing. It's a 24 ton, two seat aircraft, and is probably the most capable F-16 model in service. It's basically a modified version of the Block 52, equipped with a more advanced radar (the APG-68X) and the ability to carry Israeli weapons like the Python 4 air-to-air missile and the Popeye 2 air-to-surface missile. Costing $45 million each, the F-16I has an excellent navigation system, which allows it to fly on the deck (a few hundred feet from the ground), without working the pilot to death. The aircraft can do this at night or in any weather. The F-16I can carry enough fuel to hit targets 1,600 kilometers away (meaning Iran is within range). The aircraft uses the latest short and long range air-to-air missiles, as well as smart bombs. Electronic countermeasures are carried, as is a powerful computer system, which records the details of each sortie in great detail. This is a big help for training. The F-16I is basically optimized to deliver smart bombs anywhere, despite dense air defense


Since 2008 Pakistani F-16s have been heavily used in the tribal territories, along the Afghan border, dropping smart and dumb bombs, and giving the pilots experience using targeting pods. This is the first combat experience the Pakistani F-16s have received and the Pakistanis are satisfied with F-16 performance as a bomber.

Procurement: The F-16s Go Round And Round
We need more f-16 along with 100 + J-10c and JF-17 block 2 really soon @Aeronaut
 
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