The F 16 Game---Paf Should Have Had A Different Game Plan

[Dalit]

I do not see USA abandoning Pakistan entirely (regardless of who win's the next election) the Pentagon need Pakistan to help stabilise Afghanistan, help with counter terrorism efforts, stem the drug narcotics trade as well as trying to keep you from moving all together in the Chinese sphere of influence.

Yes post Abbottabad and the San Bernardino shooting there is a underlying resentment but a country which has a huge nuclear arsenal and a vast Pakistani diaspora can't just be cut off and left to it's own devices. All I would say is be careful there is a old saying 'keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer' many still have not forgiven Pakistan in the US congress as they feel there was double dealings (I refer to the Haqqani network) and some even think Bin Laden was provided sanctuary be it true or not there is certainly a trust deficit present.

Pakistan needs to play the game, you still have cards in your hand but need to use them wisely.

Too late buddy. We are already with China in case you missed all the action in the past year.

Pakistan isn't going to do anything for the Americans. Pakistan is only going to act in its own interest. If our interest somehow converge with theirs so be it. Otherwise it is tough luck. Remember, these F-16s were offered by the Obama administration. We didn't specifically ask for them. As for the Americans being angry at Pakistan, when have they not been angry? We don't care anymore. They can shove their anger where the sun doesn't shine.

LOL @ the narcotics arguments. If the Americans really care, why would they support an Afghan regime that survives on opium trade? The last time I heard even the CIA was benefitting from opium production in Afghanistan.

The Americans support anti-Pakistan elements in Afghanistan. Terror attacks emanating from Indian consulates across the border happen under the noses of the US coalition. We also haven't forgotten the Salala attack which was designed to murder our troops in broad daylight. Pakistanis have fought for these Americans and lost tens of thousands of innocent lives. All we get to hear is to do more. We are not that stupid and we too have a list of grievances.

We are not here to serve anyone, but only our own interests. The Americans better understand this. Let the US abandon Pakistan (whatever that means). We don't care.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The issue is not of the 8---but the 30 plus that would be ordered in the future and the issue is also of the 72 in stock---.

As I stated in my earlier post----an aircraft like the J10C with AESA could have changed the playing field for pakistan completely---.

I repeat again----with 1 sqdrn of J10C' in stock and 1 sqdrn on order----pakistan could have easily manipulated an aesa for its existing F16's----.

So---in this case---what would be the worst case scenario---the U S will say---no aesa but you can still have the BLK52's---. So---now in this case---the threat of sales and sanctions has lost its punch---.

If you have 2 sqdrn's of J10C's----the sanctions mean nothing now----except for an egg on the face of the U S.

Now as for money----it is a lie that paf does not have the funds---. The ACM just threatened the U S---if you don't sell us the aircraft---we will go elsewhere---we have choices.

I keep bringing back the J10C---because that is the first aircraft and the easiest aircraft to get----so that is the baseline-----at upper tiers are the J16---SU35---Mig35's.

 

[mingle]

Hi,

The issue is not of the 8---but the 30 plus that would be ordered in the future and the issue is also of the 72 in stock---.

As I stated in my earlier post----an aircraft like the J10C with AESA could have changed the playing field for pakistan completely---.

I repeat again----with 1 sqdrn of J10C' in stock and 1 sqdrn on order----pakistan could have easily manipulated an aesa for its existing F16's----.

So---in this case---what would be the worst case scenario---the U S will say---no aesa but you can still have the BLK52's---. So---now in this case---the threat of sales and sanctions has lost its punch---.

If you have 2 sqdrn's of J10C's----the sanctions mean nothing now----except for an egg on the face of the U S.

Now as for money----it is a lie that paf does not have the funds---. The ACM just threatened the U S---if you don't sell us the aircraft---we will go elsewhere---we have choices.

I keep bringing back the J10C---because that is the first aircraft and the easiest aircraft to get----so that is the baseline-----at upper tiers are the J16---SU35---Mig35's.

@Mastan r we looking more 30 new F16s other than 8 in near future if that correct we will keep LM in bussiness for another 5 yrs

 

[Hamza913]

haha bernie sanders , rofl

What's so ROFL about him? He is better than those idiot republicans.

 

[Bheemsen]

What's so ROFL about him? He is better than those idiot republicans.

He is not even winning Democratic GOP nominee it will be Hillary vs trump rest up to voters of USA , current pollsters predicting close contest both are hated across sections

 

[araz]

Hi,

The issue is not of the 8---but the 30 plus that would be ordered in the future and the issue is also of the 72 in stock---.

As I stated in my earlier post----an aircraft like the J10C with AESA could have changed the playing field for pakistan completely---.

I repeat again----with 1 sqdrn of J10C' in stock and 1 sqdrn on order----pakistan could have easily manipulated an aesa for its existing F16's----.

So---in this case---what would be the worst case scenario---the U S will say---no aesa but you can still have the BLK52's---. So---now in this case---the threat of sales and sanctions has lost its punch---.

If you have 2 sqdrn's of J10C's----the sanctions mean nothing now----except for an egg on the face of the U S.

Now as for money----it is a lie that paf does not have the funds---. The ACM just threatened the U S---if you don't sell us the aircraft---we will go elsewhere---we have choices.

I keep bringing back the J10C---because that is the first aircraft and the easiest aircraft to get----so that is the baseline-----at upper tiers are the J16---SU35---Mig35's.

With all due respects you are contradicitng your self. On the one hand you want the PAF slayed and bayonetted for buying F16s and raise the spectre of embargoes. Then you want the 16s to tbe armed with AESA. Firstly could you clarify whether you propose that the whole fleet gets upgraded to AESA. Also how does it mitigate the threat of embargoes. Secondly who is going to bear the cost of this upgrade. With the Rafale in the arena and MKI upgrade the AESA will enter into the subcontinental arena in any case. For PAF my thinking is thatAESA is a cost which we will have to bear and another 7_10 million/platform which the US will ask for is untenable for us especially for 8-18 platforms. There will be issues related to spares and specialist maintenance which may mean even more reliance on US. On the other hand you propose we buy J10Cs and then wave that in front of the US to offer us an AESA. If you could clarify the situation and your proposal we may be in a position to continue the discussion.
Regards.
A

 

[MastanKhan]

With all due respects you are contradicitng your self. On the one hand you want the PAF slayed and bayonetted for buying F16s and raise the spectre of embargoes. Then you want the 16s to tbe armed with AESA. Firstly could you clarify whether you propose that the whole fleet gets upgraded to AESA. Also how does it mitigate the threat of embargoes. Secondly who is going to bear the cost of this upgrade. With the Rafale in the arena and MKI upgrade the AESA will enter into the subcontinental arena in any case. For PAF my thinking is thatAESA is a cost which we will have to bear and another 7_10 million/platform which the US will ask for is untenable for us especially for 8-18 platforms. There will be issues related to spares and specialist maintenance which may mean even more reliance on US. On the other hand you propose we buy J10Cs and then wave that in front of the US to offer us an AESA. If you could clarify the situation and your proposal we may be in a position to continue the discussion.
Regards.
A

Hi,

The threat of embargo is only there when you don't have a secondary option in parallel that will take your load.

But if you already have another aircraft---then the embargo disappears---.

The embargo is only there to hurt you---but if you are not hurt by an embargo---then it defeats the purpose---.

As for a lack of money---it is a lie---the ACM is on record in the U S---" we have other options available---it is not the 90's ".

It is just like the Aim 120----our JF17 got the SD10's---the aim120 did not change the playing field---so if it is a J10C / J16 / JH7B / SU35 / MIG35---an aircraft is just a conduit. Even though we ordered aim 120 just before the JF17 came into deployment---but it was understood that it would fly with the SD10's---and in 2006 Mushy had a lots of influence in the U S.

Let us not talk about the costs---because then we are ready for excuses---.


Excuse-----

I am posting a link for readers to read this item---because in my business and Job----there are no excuses---excuses are not acceptable---either I did my job or I fckd up----period---.

So---when you guys see me animated about this issue----it is because of 25 years of job training---so here is a quote from excuses---and then a link

"
Excuse Me?
Psychologists place excuse-making in the ‘self-handicapping’ category – that is, it’s a behavior we express that hurts our own performance and motivation. It serves as a distraction of sorts that prevents us from achieving the task, but it stems from a deeper, unconscious desire to protect ourselves (our Ego, if you asked Freud) against anxiety and shame. And the more anxious or ashamed we are likely to feel, the more likely we are to build barriers that impede our chances of attaining a goal. Excuses aim to shift the focus from issues pertaining to our sense of self to issues that are relatively less central. For example: someone asks you why you failed the test. Anxiety and shame ensue. Your subconscious quickly tries to protect your sense of self from being attacked or criticized, and you blurt out – the test was unfair "!

Now click on this link and enjoy the read---.

Why do we make excuses?

 

[帅的一匹]

J10c is not only a conduit for preventing embargo, it can fight hell lot.

 

[araz]

The threat of embargo is only there when you don't have a secondary option in parallel that will take your load.
But if you already have another aircraft---then the embargo disappears---.
The embargo is only there to hurt you---but if you are not hurt by an embargo---then it defeats the purpose---.
With 80 odd aircrafts making the high end of your force, what happens in case of embargo? I would disagree that the embargoes would lose their function as the PAF would still be stung badly. Hence my point about the fact that our fate was sealed the day we made our initial demand for F16s and established infrastructure.

As for a lack of money---it is a lie---the ACM is on record in the U S---" we have other options available---it is not the 90's ".
I would disagree and say that there is enough evidence to suggest that money is indeed a great uissue and will be more than obvious in the latter half of this year. I have quoted how much loans are maturing and if you count that against your assetts you will know what I am talking about

It is just like the Aim 120----our JF17 got the SD10's---the aim120 did not change the playing field---so if it is a J10C / J16 / JH7B / SU35 / MIG35---an aircraft is just a conduit. Even though we ordered aim 120 just before the JF17 came into deployment---but it was understood that it would fly with the SD10's---and in 2006 Mushy had a lots of influence in the U S.
Let us not talk about the costs---because then we are ready for excuses---.
The mattewr of a missile is quite different from a fighter. Look at the cost andinfrastructure involved. this is like comparing apples and oranges. Your post belays a naivity which is uncharacteristic of you. You should know better that Mushy had very little if at all influence over US. Sure US gave us a lot of equipment but at the same time he came in for a lot of stick as well. You also have to accept he took 3 yrs to convince the US to give us anything. I would agree that he was a poor negotiator but at the end of the day held very little influence over US policies and its arms supplies.

I will rest my case. I think the problem has remained one of not realizing the dire financial situation Pakistan has been, and is and will remain in for the forseeable future. Till we get out of this quagmire the policy of keeping up with the Jones(or Bhagwat Dases) will be too big a financial burden to bear.
A

 

[Hamza913]

He is not even winning Democratic GOP nominee it will be Hillary vs trump rest up to voters of USA , current pollsters predicting close contest both are hated across sections

Bernie is still a likely candidate to win. Hopefully he does. If he doesn't, time to buy more used f16's and upgrade them in Turkey.

 

[Pulsar]

It really does not make much sense to go for the ones without AESA.

BEWARE! AESA or no AESA, those F-16s are most likely fitted with 'Kill Switches' which can be remotely operated by the Americans through satellites on the hidden built-in transponders on the planes. In a war situation, the F-16s will go pffffttt! You won't be able to even start them!!

Thank Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works for this!

 

[MastanKhan]

BEWARE! AESA or no AESA, those F-16s are most likely fitted with 'Kill Switches' which can be remotely operated by the Americans through satellites on the hidden built-in transponders on the planes. In a war situation, the F-16s will go pffffttt! You won't be able to even start them!!

Thank Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works for this!

Hi,

I did not believe in the kill switch stuff ( though in my heart I did )----since the release of the videos of israelis drone and f16 videos as sabotaged by the british and the u s intel agy's---I now openly believe in the kill switches---.

 

[Paksanity]

BEWARE! AESA or no AESA, those F-16s are most likely fitted with 'Kill Switches' which can be remotely operated by the Americans through satellites on the hidden built-in transponders on the planes. In a war situation, the F-16s will go pffffttt! You won't be able to even start them!!

Thank Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works for this!

And your evidence is?

 

[rustom]

Hi,

I did not believe in the kill switch stuff ( though in my heart I did )----since the release of the videos of israelis drone and f16 videos as sabotaged by the british and the u s intel agy's---I now openly believe in the kill switches---.

And these are one of the reasons why india didn't choose American planes for MMRCA, even though they are best in business.

 

[MastanKhan]

And these are one of the reasons why india didn't choose American planes for MMRCA, even though they are best in business.

Hi,

And to add to that---I just finished reading something yesterday---last night---.

At this stage---I really don't think any reason for the equipment NOT TO HAVE " Kill switches ".