The evolution of Civilization in North India

[Cobra Arbok]

Full extent of NBPW. As you can see it included parts of Pakistan as well

 

[Hamza913]

This shows that people who think that we have progressed and became civilized in last few hundred years are wrong. This myth is borrowed from West.

What kind of moron thinks that? It's more like the other way around, but even that's not entirely accurate.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

I was pondering over that, but I think including all of Europe is more appropriate since the UK has also played a major role in world history (e.g worlds largest empire, we speak English, etc). Also, remember, many Americans have ancestry from northern Europe.

Good point. I was referring to ancient history though. Northern western and Eastern Europe did not play a major role until the Rennaissance. Also, you forgot to mention China.

Anyway most of the greatest scientific and mathematical achievements of the Modern world were from Western Europe, so they definitely have reasons to be proud.

 

[Hamza913]

Full extent of NBPW. As you can see it included parts of Pakistan as well

You know it's just a style of pottery right? It doesn't mean they all lived under one unified rule.

Good point. I was referring to ancient history though. Northern western and Eastern Europe did not play a major role until the Rennaissance. Also, you forgot to mention China.

China is cool and all, but to be honest, I think the Middle East, Europe and South Asia have done more (no disrespect to the Chinese, their culture is still fabulous).

 

[Cobra Arbok]

You know it's just a style of pottery right? It doesn't mean they all lived under one unified rule.

I know. That's why it is referred to as a culture. It was likely spread by trade between Patilputra, Taxila, gandhara, Maghada, Ujjain, and other major urban centers of the subcontinent. In no way was it an empire. The period did have several empires that included parts of modern India and Pakistan such as the Mauryas. I should have been more specific about that, I apologize.

 

[Hamza913]

Anyway most of the greatest scientific and mathematical achievements of the Modern world were from Western Europe, so they definitely have reasons to be proud.

Yeah, but they get a little too carried away about this. For example, their achievements are only possible because of the groundwork laid out for them by Muslims (I say Muslim rather than their ethnicity because they were all from different ethnic groups and were very religious Muslims), but even then, the early Muslims got some of it (e.g numerals) from the Indus (although, most people from the Indus are now also Muslim).

I apologize.

Don't apologise, you're making me feel as if I'm scolding you lol.

You can just say "I know", or "I'm not stupid, don't treat me like that you monkey". You know, something a little more aggressive.

Might as well mention something I found cool:

This is the Dholavira, an old Indus settlement in Gujarat that was used for trade between the Indus settlements in the Punjab, Sindh and southern Gujarat.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Yeah, but they get a little too carried away about this. For example, their achievements are only possible because of the groundwork laid out for them by Muslims (I say Muslim rather than their ethnicity because they were all from different ethnic groups and were very religious Muslims), but even then, the early Muslims got some of it (e.g numerals) from the Indus (although, most people from the Indus are now also Muslim).[/QUOT
Actually the Arabs were heavily influenced by Indian mathematicians such as Arybhata. The decimal system was invented by Aryabhata for example. But they can be credited for spreading that knowledge throughout Europe. A lot of concepts "discovered" by Euoropeans can also be traced to India, such as the origins of Calculus(believed to have been discovered by Madhava)
http://storyofmathematics.com/indian_madhava.html

 

[HariPrasad]

I think the belief system plays a very important role in evolvement of any civilization with so many other factors like geography and availability of natural resources. In modern time , many barriers and compulsion are no more there but still I see culture evolving in many dimensions unlike the the waste where the diversity has shrunk continuously.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Yeah, but they get a little too carried away about this. For example, their achievements are only possible because of the groundwork laid out for them by Muslims (I say Muslim rather than their ethnicity because they were all from different ethnic groups and were very religious Muslims), but even then, the early Muslims got some of it (e.g numerals) from the Indus (although, most people from the Indus are now also Muslim).



Don't apologise, you're making me feel as if I'm scolding you lol.

You can just say "I know", or "I'm not stupid, don't treat me like that you monkey". You know, something a little more aggressive.

Might as well mention something I found cool:

This is the Dholavira, an old Indus settlement in Gujarat that was used for trade between the Indus settlements in the Punjab, Sindh and southern Gujarat.

HAHHa I will follow your advice from now on. And yes, Dhlavira was an important IVC site for that reason. Lothal was also important because it was used for trade with the ARab world and Persia. That is the reason IVC seals have been found in those regions, and why Persian and Arab seals have been found throughout the IVC.
I think I talked about that in my history of Gujarat thread.

 

[Hamza913]

Actually the Arabs were heavily influenced by Indian mathematicians such as Arybhata. The decimal system was invented by Aryabhata for example. But they can be credited for spreading that knowledge throughout Europe. A lot of concepts "discovered" by Euoropeans can also be traced to India, such as the origins of Calculus(believed to have been discovered by Madhava)

I didn't know that, I thought they got it from the Indus (including north-west Hindustan btw).

Yeah, European discoveries tend to have been based on earlier work by others, but that's how most discoveries are found.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryabhata
Yes a lot of his works influenced the Persians and Arabs, who in turn spread theirs to Europe(particularly Spain) I may be mistaken, but I believe Spanish was the first modern European language to incorporate the Arabic Al-Jabr into its vocabulary. But the Arabs deserve credit for educating the Europeans who in turn used that knowledge to create great things.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

I know. That's why it is referred to as a culture. It was likely spread by trade between Patilputra, Taxila, gandhara, Maghada, Ujjain, and other major urban centers of the subcontinent. In no way was it an empire. The period did have several empires that included parts of modern India and Pakistan such as the Mauryas. I should have been more specific about that, I apologize.

"Several", can you name any more? The Mauryan occupation over the Indus region was loose and lasted less than a century.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

"Several", can you name any more? The Mauryan occupation over the Indus region was loose and lasted less than a century.

Maybe several was a bad word to use. My point was the NBPW spread across Northern India and parts of Pakistan, and manifested in different Empires throughout the region.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

All right it has been a very long time since I posted here. I have been intending to contribute to this thread for a while, but between other threads I made and my bans, I never got around to it. Anyway, this thread was about the history of the Gangetic plains/North India up to around 100 AD. It looks like we are nearing the finish line of that milestone. For this post I am going to talk about something I briefly mentioned earlier. That is Greek influence in North India. It is a well known fact that Greeks had tremendous influence over Pakistan and Afghanistan , leading to the Indo-Greek Empires that dominated the region for a long period of time. Obviously, Greeks had more influence in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran due to their geographical proximity to Greece. However, Greek influence did spread to India as well, especially since Indian Empires at the time(mainly the Mauryans and GUptas) were major world powers and traded extensively with Greece. If you are interested in Greek interactions with modern day India, check out Indika by Megasthenes. There's already a helpful thread about that.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indika-an-ancient-greek-description-of-india.91714/

Sanchi- around 115 BC, the ambassador of the Greek King Heliodorus Visited Sanchi in modern day Madhya Pradesh, then a part of the Vidisha Kingdom. As a sign of friendship between the Indo-Greek and indigenous Indian kingdoms, Heliodorus established the Heliodorus Pillar, circa 113 bc. Heliosorus also converted to Hinduism.


Heliodorus also brought along many craftsmen with him, who helped construct and decorate the Sanchi Stupa All Carvings date to 115 BC

A carving of Goddess Lakshmi, similar to images of Venus


A winged griffin

The Greek mythological figure of Anguipede


Woman riding a centaur


Hero fighting against lions


Bactrian camel(suggesting many of Heliodorus's craftsmen were from Gandhara.


Man riding Centaur


Foreign man riding a horse


A griffin. Note the above inscription is in Kharoshti, not Brahmi, indicating that it was inscribed by Gandharan craftsmen.

Most of the earliest carvings were simple floral designs.

Lotus with Greek Beads and Reel motif

Flower medallion

Elephant
The later carvings were added by 15 BC

Ahsoka and his wives

Indo-Scythian man

Indo-greeks and Indo scythians(important not to confuse the two) also had major influence over Mathura, a major city in the Gangetic plains. A good example is the Mathura Lion capital, built by the Indo-Scythian King Rajuvela who ruled Mathura around the first century CE. It was probably built to honor the Indo-Scythian King Maues on his funeral. It is currently held in the British Museum.


Buddhist symbol of the Tiratana

Kharoshti inscriptions at the base.
One of the most amazing works of Indo-Scythian art in modern India is the Sapartish stature, a life-size statue of


There are conflicting theories as to its origin. Some believe it depicts Kamuia, Rajavela-s queen. Others believe it depicts Hariti, a Godess and demon in some Buddhist traditions.

Anohter major Indo-Greek work of art found in Mahtura is the Mathura Herakles, depicting a man strangling a lion. It is believed the man is Herakles(or Hercules) strangling the Nemean lion. It dates to 200 CE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanchi_Stupa_No.2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathura_Herakles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathura_lion_capital
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saptarishi_Tila_statue

@Indus Pakistan @Taimur Khurram @Talwar e Pakistan @Taimoor Khan @UnitedPak @Rusty @Desert Fox @DESERT FIGHTER @Peshwa @padamchen @Rollno21 @Śakra @third eye @Tshering22 @Suriya @Nilgiri @LASER @Rajesh Kumar @jaiind @manga @Papa Dragon @Dexon @KAL-EL @Peaceful Civilian @niaz @Sam. @Tom M
@Cherokee @scorpionx @surya kiran

 

[Sam.]

All right it has been a very long time since I posted here. I have been intending to contribute to this thread for a while, but between other threads I made and my bans, I never got around to it. Anyway, this thread was about the history of the Gangetic plains/North India up to around 100 AD. It looks like we are nearing the finish line of that milestone. For this post I am going to talk about something I briefly mentioned earlier. That is Greek influence in North India. It is a well known fact that Greeks had tremendous influence over Pakistan and Afghanistan , leading to the Indo-Greek Empires that dominated the region for a long period of time. Obviously, Greeks had more influence in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran due to their geographical proximity to Greece. However, Greek influence did spread to India as well, especially since Indian Empires at the time(mainly the Mauryans and GUptas) were major world powers and traded extensively with Greece. If you are interested in Greek interactions with modern day India, check out Indika by Megasthenes. There's already a helpful thread about that.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indika-an-ancient-greek-description-of-india.91714/

Sanchi- around 115 BC, the ambassador of the Greek King Heliodorus Visited Sanchi in modern day Madhya Pradesh, then a part of the Vidisha Kingdom. As a sign of friendship between the Indo-Greek and indigenous Indian kingdoms, Heliodorus established the Heliodorus Pillar, circa 113 bc. Heliosorus also converted to Hinduism.


Heliodorus also brought along many craftsmen with him, who helped construct and decorate the Sanchi Stupa All Carvings date to 115 BC

A carving of Goddess Lakshmi, similar to images of Venus


A winged griffin

The Greek mythological figure of Anguipede


Woman riding a centaur


Hero fighting against lions


Bactrian camel(suggesting many of Heliodorus's craftsmen were from Gandhara.


Man riding Centaur


Foreign man riding a horse


A griffin. Note the above inscription is in Kharoshti, not Brahmi, indicating that it was inscribed by Gandharan craftsmen.

Most of the earliest carvings were simple floral designs.

Lotus with Greek Beads and Reel motif

Flower medallion

Elephant
The later carvings were added by 15 BC

Ahsoka and his wives

Indo-Scythian man

Indo-greeks and Indo scythians(important not to confuse the two) also had major influence over Mathura, a major city in the Gangetic plains. A good example is the Mathura Lion capital, built by the Indo-Scythian King Rajuvela who ruled Mathura around the first century CE. It was probably built to honor the Indo-Scythian King Maues on his funeral. It is currently held in the British Museum.


Buddhist symbol of the Tiratana

Kharoshti inscriptions at the base.
One of the most amazing works of Indo-Scythian art in modern India is the Sapartish stature, a life-size statue of


There are conflicting theories as to its origin. Some believe it depicts Kamuia, Rajavela-s queen. Others believe it depicts Hariti, a Godess and demon in some Buddhist traditions.

Anohter major Indo-Greek work of art found in Mahtura is the Mathura Herakles, depicting a man strangling a lion. It is believed the man is Herakles(or Hercules) strangling the Nemean lion. It dates to 200 CE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanchi_Stupa_No.2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathura_Herakles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathura_lion_capital
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saptarishi_Tila_statue

@Indus Pakistan @Taimur Khurram @Talwar e Pakistan @Taimoor Khan @UnitedPak @Rusty @Desert Fox @DESERT FIGHTER @Peshwa @padamchen @Rollno21 @Śakra @third eye @Tshering22 @Suriya @Nilgiri @LASER @Rajesh Kumar @jaiind @manga @Papa Dragon @Dexon @KAL-EL @Peaceful Civilian @niaz @Sam. @Tom M
@Cherokee @scorpionx @surya kiran

Good post mate , always happy to read.

I wish you to share some knowledge on our bloodline. This is what i found in Wikipedia
The Rath (Rajasthani: रथ (Devanagari) رتھ‬ (Perso-Arabic)) are a Rajput community, found in the state of Rajasthan in India.[1] They also settled in Punjab and Sindh provinces Pakistan. They are also known as Rathi, although their preferred self-designation is Rajput.

Rajput part is wrong as we are jaats & prefer kshatriyas but i do heard stories from elders that we were rajputs until we rebel and civil war broke out.

@Cobra Arbok @padamchen @hellfire @ranjeet