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The Doklam Standoff between China and India is more complex that what is made to appear.

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From the blog of Mr. Wangcha Sangey.

The Doklam Standoff between China and India is more complex that what is made to appear.

The public may be under the impression that Indian soldiers are still at Doklam side claimed by China. That cannot be true. Indian soldiers had gone into the disputed area between China and Bhutan upon which India has no claim of her own. However, it is apparent that the Indian soldiers were pushed back and subsequently Chinese soldiers had entered the Indian line on Sikkim side and even destroyed few border post make do shelter of the Indian Army. So now both must be at their original post albeit with additional re- inforcement.

The video footages in fb of Chinese and Indian soldiers confronting each other are of different times and at different place , not at Doklam. The Indian Army has been very tight lipped about the present Doklam incident. Therefore, there is no chance of them sharing video footages.

In the year 2012, India and China had agreed not to interfere into border issues that India or China may have with Bhutan or Burma ( Myanmar) at tri-junction boundaries. And on that basis, the Border Agreement between Indian Sikkim and Chinese Tibet was finalised. It seems that both the Doklam status of China and the Nathu La Trade Route Opening were part of several overall understandings reached between India and China. Also during the Sino- Bhutan Border Talks, the Chinese position on Doklam Plateau was very clear and firm from the very beginning. Bhutan understood the Chinese claim regarding Doklam.

This time at Doklam, India had breached that Bilateral Agreement and understandings between China and India when Indian soldiers transgressed into Doklam. And now in retaliation, China is abrogating that Agreement and demanding that Indian Army withdraw back from its existing position at Sikkim -Tibet border. China is insisting upon re-negotiating the Tibet- Sikkim border.

India had not expected such a strong reaction from China. And caught flat footed, tried to wriggle out of the tight corner by saying that Indian Army entered Doklam at the request of Bhutan Army. In other words declaring that Bhutan is a " Protectorate " of India. And projecting a international posture of India protecting tiny Bhutan from a big bully China.

Bhutan naturally cannot support such blatantly invasive contention of India. Bhutan is a sovereign nation and member of UN. Not a " Protectorate " of India. And anyway China is not buying any such blabbering from India.

It appears that an overzealous Defence Ministry of India ordered the Indian Army intrusion into Doklam area. Maybe it was one strategy aimed at foiling Sino- Bhutan Border Agreement happening during the next Ministerial level Sino- Bhutan Border Meeting. It could also be an internal strategy of Defence Ministry officials to push through lucrative Defence Purchase Deals through hyping Sino- Indian conflicts at sensitive border points. Defence Deals worth billions of dollars could result in huge dividends for those making the Deals. And any sign of heightened tensions with China or Pakistan could hrlp to seal big defence related procurement Deals.

Whatever the reasons may have been for the unprecedented transgression at Doklam, the Indian war hawks had not envisaged such a huge fallout upon the Sikkim -Tibet Border Agreement and the Kashmir conflict. India had already breached part of understandings with China by playing up the Dalai Lama card at Arunachal. And Doklam intrusion sort of broke the camel back. Since the departure of the Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar to take up the post of Goa Chief Ministership, the Defence Ministry of India under Shri Arun Jaitley has been embarking upon a new defiant policy against China.

It is also quite clear that Indian Army Command was against such a confrontational move at Doklam. But had followed the order issued by the Defence Ministry. The fallout from the foul up by the Defence Ministry has compelled Modi Cabinet to trim away Defence Ministry bureaucratic powers and transfer the same to the Indian Army Command. Recently the strategic and defence powers including armament procurement authority of both the Chief and Deputy Chief of Indian Army have been considerably enhanced. India may also find it necessary to appoint a full time new Defence Minister. Presently Shri Arun Jaitley is holding double portfolios of Finance and Defence Ministries. And that may have lead to war hawks at Defence Ministry taking over.

India could be prepared to fight 2 and 1/2 wars at the same time. But this is turning out to be 5 and 1/2 wars. Chicken Neck, Arunachal, Kashmir, Bay of Bengal and Arabian Sea plus that 1/2 meaning internal security. And America, Japan and Israel cannot be trusted to fight from Indian side against China in case of war. Going against three nuclear nations China, Pakistan and North Korea for sake of Indian interest alone is not sufficiently tempting for United States. And in any case, other world powers would love to see India and China bleed each other as they look upon from afar. What America and other nations dread is the two Asian powers teaming up.

China was fully aware of behind the scene Indian pressures upon Bhutan in Sino- Bhutan Border negotiations throughout the last 34 years and 24 rounds of Talks. But China could not take punitive action until India directly and openly showed her hand. And this time at Doklam, India unmasked herself. That was what China was waiting for.

Now I think an Indian advance peace team is already in Beijing to be joined by Indian Security Advisor later. India is adopting a conciliatory approach to save the 2012 Sikkim- Tibet Border Agreement. The Indian Diplomat and Security Analyst Phunchuk Stobdan who recently authored the article " India's Real Problem lies in its Foreign Policy, Not Border " seems to be also a member of the Indian advance team at Beijing. His article is a sign of conciliatory gesture from the Government of India.

The Doklam standoff crisis may dissipate if India truly backs off from Sino- Bhutan Border negotiation and in other areas like opposing One Belt Road Initiative and stop playing up Dalai Lama card. I hope all goes well between our giant neighbours. War is terrible for all of us.

There is no written security pact as such between India and Bhutan or Bhutan with China. However, if Bhutan is invaded by either India or China, one could rightly assume that the other giant neighbour will get involved because of their respective concerns for national security. For both India and China, Bhutan’s buffer status is very crucial and non- negotiable. As of date, Bhutan has a 2007 Treaty ( revised 1949 Indo- Bhutan Treaty) with India which recognises each other' s sovereignty and declaration of friendship. Likewise Bhutan has an Agreement with China which also spelts out respect for each country's sovereignty and declaration of friendship.

In regards to Doklam crisis, I would like to reiterate that I have always had tremendous faith in the working of the Deities. And I hopefully pray that what happened at Doklam this time is a way of the Deities to clear the path for Sino- Bhutan Border Agreement. There is always a possibility of a silver lining to every dark cloud. I dare to be optimistic as well as forthright.

May Triple Gem watch over the Kingdom and guide our Leaders. Pelden Drukpa Gyel Lo ! Lha Gyel Lo !

Link: http://wangchasangey.blogspot.sg/2017/07/the-doklam-standoff-between-china-and.html
 
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Now I think an Indian advance peace team is already in Beijing to be joined by Indian Security Advisor later. India is adopting a conciliatory approach to save the 2012 Sikkim- Tibet Border Agreement. The Indian Diplomat and Security Analyst Phunchuk Stobdan who recently authored the article " India's Real Problem lies in its Foreign Policy, Not Border " seems to be also a member of the Indian advance team at Beijing. His article is a sign of conciliatory gesture from the Government of India.
 
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I think this is a golden opptunity for China to take south tibet and let northeast india become independent nations, afterall most of the locals there are not even indians and looks more like tibetans, and they actually look down on indians and want independence.
 
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I think this is a golden opptunity for China to take south tibet and let northeast india become independent nations, afterall most of the locals there are not even indians and looks more like tibetans, and they actually look down on indians and want independence.

It can also be an golden opportunity for China to lose Tibet, after all most of the locals there are crying for freedom. On topic China can claim Chennai and India can claim Beijing doesn't matter a hoot. There are only two ways Doklam can be solved either China or India backs down. India has pitched tents now the ball is in China's court. It looks like China's threat ministry will be on overdrive till winter after which both have to withdraw any which ways. Chinese are such pussies only talk, talk and more talk, it has been more than a month now.
 
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It can also be an golden opportunity for China to lose Tibet, after all most of the locals there are crying for freedom. On topic China can claim Chennai and India can claim Beijing doesn't matter a hoot. There are only two ways Doklam can be solved either China or India backs down. India has pitched tents now the ball is in China's court. It looks like China's threat ministry will be on overdrive till winter after which both have to withdraw any which ways. Chinese are such pussies only talk, talk and more talk, it has been more than a month now.

Yeah, you can feel free to try
 
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However, it is apparent that the Indian soldiers were pushed back and subsequently Chinese soldiers had entered the Indian line on Sikkim side and even destroyed few border post make do shelter of the Indian Army. So now both must be at their original post albeit with additional re- inforcement.

Then why is China specifically asking India to move out?

China is insisting upon re-negotiating the Tibet- Sikkim border.

??? That border is already settled by the 1890 treaty.

And this time at Doklam, India unmasked herself.

That may be true.
 
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I think this is a golden opptunity for China to take south tibet and let northeast india become independent nations, afterall most of the locals there are not even indians and looks more like tibetans, and they actually look down on indians and want independence.
China are contemplating cutting the chicken neck and effectively force India to return South Tibet if they want to get back other land, just like how Israel force Egypt to accept peace by cutting sinai.
 
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The entire article is based on the notion that Doklam plateau is a Chinese territory, which Bhutan has agreed of. Can any one post any link which asserts such claims?
Otherwise all these talks of India breaching agreement is nothing more than habitual propaganda.
 
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India was just a handful of kingdoms before the british came.

There was no india, how can they understand chinese situation?

Alot of land other countries now sitting on was chinese land
 
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From the blog of Mr. Wangcha Sangey.

The Doklam Standoff between China and India is more complex that what is made to appear.

The public may be under the impression that Indian soldiers are still at Doklam side claimed by China. That cannot be true. Indian soldiers had gone into the disputed area between China and Bhutan upon which India has no claim of her own. However, it is apparent that the Indian soldiers were pushed back and subsequently Chinese soldiers had entered the Indian line on Sikkim side and even destroyed few border post make do shelter of the Indian Army. So now both must be at their original post albeit with additional re- inforcement.

The video footages in fb of Chinese and Indian soldiers confronting each other are of different times and at different place , not at Doklam. The Indian Army has been very tight lipped about the present Doklam incident. Therefore, there is no chance of them sharing video footages.

In the year 2012, India and China had agreed not to interfere into border issues that India or China may have with Bhutan or Burma ( Myanmar) at tri-junction boundaries. And on that basis, the Border Agreement between Indian Sikkim and Chinese Tibet was finalised. It seems that both the Doklam status of China and the Nathu La Trade Route Opening were part of several overall understandings reached between India and China. Also during the Sino- Bhutan Border Talks, the Chinese position on Doklam Plateau was very clear and firm from the very beginning. Bhutan understood the Chinese claim regarding Doklam.

This time at Doklam, India had breached that Bilateral Agreement and understandings between China and India when Indian soldiers transgressed into Doklam. And now in retaliation, China is abrogating that Agreement and demanding that Indian Army withdraw back from its existing position at Sikkim -Tibet border. China is insisting upon re-negotiating the Tibet- Sikkim border.

India had not expected such a strong reaction from China. And caught flat footed, tried to wriggle out of the tight corner by saying that Indian Army entered Doklam at the request of Bhutan Army. In other words declaring that Bhutan is a " Protectorate " of India. And projecting a international posture of India protecting tiny Bhutan from a big bully China.

Bhutan naturally cannot support such blatantly invasive contention of India. Bhutan is a sovereign nation and member of UN. Not a " Protectorate " of India. And anyway China is not buying any such blabbering from India.

It appears that an overzealous Defence Ministry of India ordered the Indian Army intrusion into Doklam area. Maybe it was one strategy aimed at foiling Sino- Bhutan Border Agreement happening during the next Ministerial level Sino- Bhutan Border Meeting. It could also be an internal strategy of Defence Ministry officials to push through lucrative Defence Purchase Deals through hyping Sino- Indian conflicts at sensitive border points. Defence Deals worth billions of dollars could result in huge dividends for those making the Deals. And any sign of heightened tensions with China or Pakistan could hrlp to seal big defence related procurement Deals.

Whatever the reasons may have been for the unprecedented transgression at Doklam, the Indian war hawks had not envisaged such a huge fallout upon the Sikkim -Tibet Border Agreement and the Kashmir conflict. India had already breached part of understandings with China by playing up the Dalai Lama card at Arunachal. And Doklam intrusion sort of broke the camel back. Since the departure of the Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar to take up the post of Goa Chief Ministership, the Defence Ministry of India under Shri Arun Jaitley has been embarking upon a new defiant policy against China.

It is also quite clear that Indian Army Command was against such a confrontational move at Doklam. But had followed the order issued by the Defence Ministry. The fallout from the foul up by the Defence Ministry has compelled Modi Cabinet to trim away Defence Ministry bureaucratic powers and transfer the same to the Indian Army Command. Recently the strategic and defence powers including armament procurement authority of both the Chief and Deputy Chief of Indian Army have been considerably enhanced. India may also find it necessary to appoint a full time new Defence Minister. Presently Shri Arun Jaitley is holding double portfolios of Finance and Defence Ministries. And that may have lead to war hawks at Defence Ministry taking over.

India could be prepared to fight 2 and 1/2 wars at the same time. But this is turning out to be 5 and 1/2 wars. Chicken Neck, Arunachal, Kashmir, Bay of Bengal and Arabian Sea plus that 1/2 meaning internal security. And America, Japan and Israel cannot be trusted to fight from Indian side against China in case of war. Going against three nuclear nations China, Pakistan and North Korea for sake of Indian interest alone is not sufficiently tempting for United States. And in any case, other world powers would love to see India and China bleed each other as they look upon from afar. What America and other nations dread is the two Asian powers teaming up.

China was fully aware of behind the scene Indian pressures upon Bhutan in Sino- Bhutan Border negotiations throughout the last 34 years and 24 rounds of Talks. But China could not take punitive action until India directly and openly showed her hand. And this time at Doklam, India unmasked herself. That was what China was waiting for.

Now I think an Indian advance peace team is already in Beijing to be joined by Indian Security Advisor later. India is adopting a conciliatory approach to save the 2012 Sikkim- Tibet Border Agreement. The Indian Diplomat and Security Analyst Phunchuk Stobdan who recently authored the article " India's Real Problem lies in its Foreign Policy, Not Border " seems to be also a member of the Indian advance team at Beijing. His article is a sign of conciliatory gesture from the Government of India.

The Doklam standoff crisis may dissipate if India truly backs off from Sino- Bhutan Border negotiation and in other areas like opposing One Belt Road Initiative and stop playing up Dalai Lama card. I hope all goes well between our giant neighbours. War is terrible for all of us.

There is no written security pact as such between India and Bhutan or Bhutan with China. However, if Bhutan is invaded by either India or China, one could rightly assume that the other giant neighbour will get involved because of their respective concerns for national security. For both India and China, Bhutan’s buffer status is very crucial and non- negotiable. As of date, Bhutan has a 2007 Treaty ( revised 1949 Indo- Bhutan Treaty) with India which recognises each other' s sovereignty and declaration of friendship. Likewise Bhutan has an Agreement with China which also spelts out respect for each country's sovereignty and declaration of friendship.

In regards to Doklam crisis, I would like to reiterate that I have always had tremendous faith in the working of the Deities. And I hopefully pray that what happened at Doklam this time is a way of the Deities to clear the path for Sino- Bhutan Border Agreement. There is always a possibility of a silver lining to every dark cloud. I dare to be optimistic as well as forthright.

May Triple Gem watch over the Kingdom and guide our Leaders. Pelden Drukpa Gyel Lo ! Lha Gyel Lo !

Link: http://wangchasangey.blogspot.sg/2017/07/the-doklam-standoff-between-china-and.html


After first few para i doubt it the base headquarter of Indian army at sikkim is next to border . If actually chinese have forced Indian to retreat to sikkim .. they are in much big trouble .. the supply route which war earlier estimated to be of 10 Km for India from Doka la will be now reduced to 2km or so . And chinese supply route will be now around 90 Km away from main base ..


Its military blunder i was first 70% Sure about Indian victory looking at current situation i m 99% Sure India will win with PLA in one of worst Ambush zone after Viet war .
 
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Just another thread on PDF, why dont they understand action is required on border not here ..its been more than a month now and winter is getting closer after which it will be almost impossible for CCP to win over that part of the world against India!....really..pussy cats are Chinese CCP leaders!
 
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