What's new

The Day After We Strike Iran

KashifAsrar

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
0
What Will We Do Then?
The Day After We Strike Iran
By GARY LEUPP

Let us suppose that the Bush-Cheney administration answers the neocons’ prayer and does indeed bomb Iran sometime soon. The plan apparently involves more than the destruction of nuclear facilities, replicating Israel’s attack on Iraq’s Osirak reactor in 1981. (That attack, by the way was condemned by the whole world, including a furious President Ronald Reagan). It includes an all-out assault on the Iranian political and religious leadership. Government buildings and officials’ residences will be targeted, guaranteeing collateral damage.

Since Iran is a highly complex society, and its government widely unpopular, there may well be some local support for a “shock and awe” campaign. We know that the administration has cultivated ties with the Mujahadeen Khalq (even though they remain on the State Department’s terrorist list) and the Pakistan-based Balochi separatist group Jundallah (the Party of God). These among other organizations will get their marching orders amid the “creative chaos” produced by the attack. There can be no large deployment of U.S. troops in Iran, unless they evacuate from Afghanistan and Iraq which is unlikely.

I doubt that administration plans for the construction of a post-attack Iranian polity are any more sophisticated than their plans for post-Taliban Afghanistan or occupied Iraq. Some have suggested that the neocons’ goal is actually to plunge the Muslim Middle East into prolonged pandemonium, insuring that all foes of Israel are off-balance and terrorized by the might of Israel’s protector for generations to come. “Neocons,” writes Paul Craig Roberts, “have convinced themselves that nuking Iran will show the Muslim world that Muslims have no alternative to submitting to the will of the US government.”

They are “total Islamophobes” who believe that “Islam must be deracinated and the religion destroyed. . .” Others note that Cheney is obsessed with the imagined threat of a rising China and the need to establish permanent U.S. bases in Central and Southwest Asia to “contain” the world’s most populous nation. The desire to control the flow of oil, the urge to check China, the passionate drive to destroy Israel’s enemies (alongside this neocon Islamophobia) are all reflected in U.S. foreign policy since 9-11.

Surely a lot of Iranians know this. And they can look over their northern border into Afghanistan and their western border into Iraq and see what disaster U.S. imperialism has wrought in these neighboring countries. Bush calls them “democracies” and boasts of having gifted them with the universally applicable model pioneered by America’s founding fathers. But I’d imagine Iranians paying attention see in Afghanistan a regime dominated by warlords more reactionary than their own mullahs, resisted by an equally reactionary resurgent Taliban. In Iraq they find an emerging regime under the strong influence of conservative Shiite Muslim clerics in an unusual alliance with U.S. occupation forces. Many young Iranians chafing under Islamic law might consider this a step backwards for Iraq, which under the despised Saddam had at least been a secular society. The Iraqi puppet government is of course far weaker than the one in Tehran, and humiliatingly dependent upon the invaders who cannot provide a modicum of security while they demand oil concessions.

So I would think that the Iranian survivors of this planned criminal assault would not appreciate it. Rather they will resent it deeply, especially if it produces numerous civilian casualties. As Roberts suggests, the neocons believe that the Iranian people and Muslims around the world will be so terrified that they will capitulate to all U.S. demands and the U.S. will be better able to attain its geopolitical objectives without the use of unacceptable numbers of ground troops. I have to wonder about this.

Perhaps the neocons suppose that there will be no resistance from a shocked and awed Iranian population as America’s Iranian allies---a mix of quasi-left guerrillas, terrorist separatists, monarchists and exiles---create a provisional government. They may underestimate the social base of the present Iranian government, the sincerity of popular opposition to U.S. policy in the world, the depth of Iranian nationalism and national pride at the accomplishments of the nuclear power program. They probably underestimate the outrage an attack will cause, in Iran and everywhere.

Perhaps they overestimate the power of their weapons. The neocons know that nuclear weapons (even dire predictions about nuclear attack) produce fear---and that frightened people may voluntarily give up much of their freedom. They saw that happen here in the USA between 9-11 and the attack on Iraq. All that talk by Bush, Cheney and Rice about mushroom clouds over New York City got the masses scared, got them to support a war. The neocons may assume that this frightening thing they hold in their hand---that they can deliver (intoning with John McCain, “Bomb bomb bomb Iran”) as soon as Bush (after prayerful deliberation) gives his okay---can fix the Middle East. They may figure that a country once nuked will submit to any aftermath.

Recall how they predicted in 2002 that Iraqis would respond to occupation the same way the Japanese did from 1945 to 1952. How wrong they were. Maybe the attack-planners think that the Iranians will, after this new, planned Hiroshima, unconditionally surrender to the United States. I doubt that. Just as they appear to have overestimated the power of U.S. troops on the battlefield in Iraq, Cheney and his neocons may miscalculate the power of their most vicious weapons to obtain their goals. Mao often referred to nuclear weapons (first those of the U.S. imperialists, then the Soviet ones as well) as “a paper tiger.” The imperialists might find that they’ve sent a paper tiger to arouse an Iranian griffin. (That’s a lion with an eagle’s head and wings, something not supposed to happen.)

Meanwhile, reaction in Iraq to reports of a U.S. strike on Iran will hardly be positive. Iraqi Shiites (60% of the population) will naturally identify with victimized Shiite Iran and hate the occupiers more, without necessarily fearing them more. If you really want to do something that will fuel the Shiites’ historical sense of victimization, and unite Shiites from Lebanon to Oman and beyond, the best thing you could do is bomb Iran---not sparing the holy sites. But Iraq’s Sunnis won’t be happy either. Whatever their feelings about Iran, they’ll feel no joy in the expansion of U.S. operations in the Muslim world. The entire world will respond with revulsion. From Europe to Japan there will be much discussion about how to best distance oneself and protect oneself from a USA gone nuts.

But what will happen here in the U.S. after the Iran attack? How will we react? If it happens, it won’t be announced the way the invasion of Iraq was. There will be more and more unattributed reports of Iranian arms deliveries to unlikely recipients like the Taliban or Sunni “insurgents” in Iraq. More alarmist reports on Iran’s nuclear progress. More propaganda about Iran’s intention to nuke Israel and produce a second Holocaust. More indignant statements about Iran’s defiance of UNSC resolutions. But the timing might come as a surprise.

As the attack gets underway some Democratic leaders in Congress will indicate support for the move, based on the doctored intelligence reports they’ve read, or have had on their desk and possibly perused. Some will withhold comment or maybe even object to the action. I have the feeling both timidity and stupidity will initially prevail. There is little precedent for U.S. politicians condemning a U.S. attack on a country just after it’s occurred.

I would expect those on the contact-lists of the various antiwar coalitions would be out on the streets in force immediately after the (first) attack, shouting “SHAME” and making it clear to the world that Bush doesn’t represent the American people. I’d expect that large numbers of people would gather to demand that the Congress move immediately to impeach Bush and Cheney. I’d hope that the Democrats in Congress would find it in their interest to do so, but if Nancy Pelosi becomes president, will there be any great change? On Iran, Pelosi has deferred to AIPAC.

The antiwar movement has become disillusioned with the Democrats, and even with a mercilessly self-perpetuating system that uses its two parties to convey the illusion that the political status quo is the product of competition. Still, it sees no alternative to a mix of letter-writing, lobbying, voting, rallying, marching, exercising constitutional rights, operating within the paradigm. But Cindy Sheehan officially dropped out of the movement concluding that the “paradigm. . . is now, I am afraid, carved in immovable, unbendable and rigidly mendacious marble.”

She is right. The neocons want us to “think outside the box.” Maybe we should one-up them and think outside the system. The “way our system works,” writes Andrew J. Bacevich, “negates democracy, rendering free speech little more than a means of recording dissent.” In it, “Money maintains the Republican/Democratic duopoly of trivialized politics.” What can the honest dissenter do when informed that the U.S. (“your”) government has committed a spectacular war crime? When can you do when you learn that, once again--- without your permission---the U.S. has attacked a sovereign country posing no real threat to you? Generating enormous hatred for America throughout the world? What do we do the day after? I would just like to pose the question for discussion as we approach that moment.


http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp06152007.html
 
. . .
US cannot attack Iran and get away with it, they will have huge losses and we will loose another ally.

India is in a very crucial position and can mediate between Israel and Iran, Meanwhile Saudi Arabia would'nt love to see IRan producing more oil and would definitely like a war to keep its hegemony on.

Iran needs to be dealt with very carefully, While I'm all for Iran posessing civilian nuclear energy I'm absolutely against Iran making N bomb.

India can play a very crucial role, which wouldnt be liked by many still we have to for us both Iran and Israel is very important.
 
.
US cannot attack Iran and get away with it, they will have huge losses and we will loose another ally.
Agreed here. It will be a very costly war for USA in terms of money, human cost and resourcses.

India is in a very crucial position and can mediate between Israel and Iran, Meanwhile Saudi Arabia would'nt love to see IRan producing more oil and would definitely like a war to keep its hegemony on.
How we can mediate here? USA and Europe is not asking even Pakistan, to come in to picture. And every one knows Pakistan's role in nuclear technology supplies to them.

Iran needs to be dealt with very carefully, While I'm all for Iran posessing civilian nuclear energy I'm absolutely against Iran making N bomb.
These are double standards dear! Why we and other nuclear powers can produce nukes and Iranians are denied? Just because thier meniac looking president making some weired statements at different times. But then his days are counted. If Iran was not attacked then in next election he would not be there any more to do sabre rattling.

India can play a very crucial role, which wouldnt be liked by many still we have to for us both Iran and Israel is very important.
Again explain it how?
Kashif
 
.
How we can mediate here? USA and Europe is not asking even Pakistan, to come in to picture. And every one knows Pakistan's role in nuclear technology supplies to them.

Its not we, its they?

These are double standards dear! Why we and other nuclear powers can produce nukes and Iranians are denied? Just because thier meniac looking president making some weired statements at different times. But then his days are counted. If Iran was not attacked then in next election he would not be there any more to do sabre rattling

Why are you so bothered about Iran being denied Nukes? Isnt India having its handfulls with two nuke countries run by dictators, do we want to add one more to the list? isnt it better for India to have non nuclear iran?
 
.
How we can mediate here? USA and Europe is not asking even Pakistan, to come in to picture. And every one knows Pakistan's role in nuclear technology supplies to them.

We have more influence in Iran than Pakistan.


These are double standards dear! Why we and other nuclear powers can produce nukes and Iranians are denied? Just because thier meniac looking president making some weired statements at different times. But then his days are counted. If Iran was not attacked then in next election he would not be there any more to do sabre rattling
.

Welcome to real politik, this is how it works, now the we are in the nuke group, the lesser other nuke power's are the better. Our area has two dictator's with nuke powers in their hands. Why should we have one more. Pakistan and India never signed NPT therefore can have the Nuclear Weapons, While Iran has signed it. So there is difference, more than real politks its a matter of international law.

Why are you bothered about Iran.
 
.
How we can mediate here? USA and Europe is not asking even Pakistan, to come in to picture. And every one knows Pakistan's role in nuclear technology supplies to them.
That is something we have to find out, 'how' and 'when', We need to define the Indian way to Iran ans Israel, remember I have interacted with many Iranians and people wise they are not necessarily anti-Israel, the thing wont be that hard, there is very complex geopolitics sorrunding middle east.

On one hand Saudi Arabia would love to see Iran getting bombed and would use its leverage on US, on the other hand US would want Iran to produce WMD first if they wants to attack, Saudi Arabia does not want Iran to be a good state, Iran has everything to be the next turkey type state but they are being foolish in their quest for weapons, they should play the world in different way, they should declare we want civilian nuclear cooperation and is ready to give up nukes, on the other hand they should ramp up oil production!! That would get them in the protection of EU and UN.

These are double standards dear! Why we and other nuclear powers can produce nukes and Iranians are denied? Just because thier meniac looking president making some weired statements at different times. But then his days are counted. If Iran was not attacked then in next election he would not be there any more to do sabre rattling.
It is not double standard but it is realpoliik, We as a nuke power cannot recommend others being one, that would violate our commitments to UN , but we will be for energy needs.

Also remember the Indo-Israeli factor.

Again explain it how?
Kashif

By mediating between Israel and Iran.
By asking Iran to seek civilian nuke tech, and using double card to ramp up oil production and go under protection of UN.
By providing them civilian nuke cooperation from India to Iran.

Iran is too important a ally for us in central Asian market, remember Chahabar naval base? it is the one India is constructing and there will be some sub penns there for us as well, a response to Gwadar.
 
.
We have more influence in Iran than Pakistan.

Why should we have one more. Pakistan and India never signed NPT therefore can have the Nuclear Weapons, While Iran has signed it. So there is difference, more than real politks its a matter of international law.

Why are you bothered about Iran.
One thing is quite clear to me. The less the the influence of America and Europe in middle east, the better it is for us. Remeber we are progressing quite fast, and require energy for future developments and to sustain the pace. We can not keep an unhindered flow of OIL from gulf, untill Uncle is flexing muscles there. Same is bothering China. China also do not want to loose an important energy source. Although at the moment they are pressurising Iran for abaondoning the program. But they will not approve any thing that violate thier access to energy. If they get any alternative, the issue would be different. Iran can dimish the influence of Uncle SAM only by having a nuke capability. This will automatically translate in an advantage for us. As Iran do not have a technological based society, they will turn towards us and China, for thier development and requirements. This will ensure a safer energy supply and more power in middle east for us. Simple as that.

It is another fact that IAEA has not found a single evidence against NPT or its violation in Iran, although they did the most extensive searches ever done against any country for the nuclear program.


Also remember the Indo-Israeli factor.

By mediating between Israel and Iran.
By asking Iran to seek civilian nuke tech, and using double card to ramp up oil production and go under protection of UN.
By providing them civilian nuke cooperation from India to Iran.

Iran is too important a ally for us in central Asian market, remember Chahabar naval base? it is the one India is constructing and there will be some sub penns there for us as well, a response to Gwadar.
This is exactly the case. But remember, we can not play like this untill they are capable to defend themselves from any aggression, including against Israel, Uncle SAM or even say, Saudi (Although I do not subscribe to this theory). As you said correctly the middle east politcs is quite complex. Thier stable status would make it easy for us to find a sustained market here.
Other fact is that nukes are NOT meant for use between two parties, if BOTH have the capability to use them! It will automatically trabnslate ina stable middle east. This is what Israel and USA do not want. they need chaos there. So that they can 'Hunt' easily. The cost will be not only paid by entire middle east but by countries who want to benefit from there, including us.

I think I am quite clear here.
Kashif
 
.
One thing is quite clear to me. The less the the influence of America and Europe in middle east, the better it is for us.

That is a matter of prespective, it depends wether we are capable filling the vaccum of America. Which we are not.

Remeber we are progressing quite fast, and require energy for future developments and to sustain the pace. We can not keep an unhindered flow of OIL from gulf, untill Uncle is flexing muscles there. Same is bothering China. China also do not want to loose an important energy source.

Do you know China tries to take very oil source abroad we have, the fight is between ongc and the chinese oil companies. China is a more of a threat to us, than USA. China is arming Sudanese to kill each other, all the while they take oil from that country. They started same thing when we got the Nigerian Oil wells. You need to read a lot more. China has armed our neighbour with nuclear weapons and missile's. Sorry i take the side of the US here. I am bothered about Indians not some Ummah.

Although at the moment they are pressurising Iran for abaondoning the program. But they will not approve any thing that violate thier access to energy. If they get any alternative, the issue would be different.

Nobody is against Iran having a peaceful nuclear engery.

Iran can dimish the influence of Uncle SAM only by having a nuke capability. This will automatically translate in an advantage for us. As Iran do not have a technological based society, they will turn towards us and China, for thier development and requirements. This will ensure a safer energy supply and more power in middle east for us. Simple as that.

We rather have the US in the middle east, than China. China is our enemy not the USA. USA maybe a demon I dont care, I care wether i can protect each and every indian. USA-Japan-India along with US bases in the middle east our forth coming bases in south east asia, is the best way to keep china in control, I am not going to be bothered some evil-dooper USA syndrome while China encircles my country with the string of pearls strategy. USA is a hyper power atleast 40 years ahead of China in Firepower, Technology and Combat Capability.
It is another fact that IAEA has not found a single evidence against NPT or its violation in Iran, although they did the most extensive searches ever done against any country for the nuclear program.

Here is a factoid for you. CHINA and RUSSIA along with INDIA voted against Iran in the UN. Because all the countries are convinced about the Iran's intentions.

This is exactly the case. But remember, we can not play like this untill they are capable to defend themselves from any aggression, including against Israel, Uncle SAM or even say, Saudi (Although I do not subscribe to this theory). As you said correctly the middle east politcs is quite complex. Thier stable status would make it easy for us to find a sustained market here.

What makes you think when America leaves, China would make it a stable market, how do you know China wont play like it is being played now. When you dont have power, its easy to cry foul. But when you yourself get the power, you will do exactly what america is doing.Welcome to reality and realpolitcks

Other fact is that nukes are NOT meant for use between two parties, if BOTH have the capability to use them! It will automatically trabnslate ina stable middle east. This is what Israel and USA do not want. they need chaos there. So that they can 'Hunt' easily. The cost will be not only paid by entire middle east but by countries who want to benefit from there, including us.

I think I am quite clear here.
Kashif

I rather have a Nuke free Middle east, than some mullah's with stupid fatwa's and Wipe them out genocidal syndrome. Such Medival fvcks.
Instead of Nuclear bombs spread Education and Secualrism in the middle east. Let them not discriminate on the basis of religion.
 
.
That is a matter of prespective, it depends wether we are capable filling the vaccum of America. Which we are not.
Short on confidence, you look. Stand and be counted! Come out of Super Power (Over)syndrome!

Do you know China tries to take very oil source abroad we have, the fight is between ongc and the chinese oil companies. China is a more of a threat to us, than USA. China is arming Sudanese to kill each other, all the while they take oil from that country. They started same thing when we got the Nigerian Oil wells. You need to read a lot more. China has armed our neighbour with nuclear weapons and missile's. Sorry i take the side of the US here. I am bothered about Indians not some Ummah.
Mere allegations! It is other way round where China has asked to come as an observer in SCO. Energy circle for China can NEVR be complete without India, and they know it!

Nobody is against Iran having a peaceful nuclear engery.
This is what they have till date! What the fuss then? Any evidence against them till date? But they are continually threatened not only of WAR but a nuclear War at that! That's the reason I kick the a$$ of those who talk about dirty politics. I want Iran to be a nuclear power. Simple. Straight. No strings attached!

We rather have the US in the middle east, than China. China is our enemy not the USA. USA maybe a demon I dont care, I care wether i can protect each and every indian. USA-Japan-India along with US bases in the middle east our forth coming bases in south east asia, is the best way to keep china in control, I am not going to be bothered some evil-dooper USA syndrome while China encircles my country with the string of pearls strategy. USA is a hyper power atleast 40 years ahead of China in Firepower, Technology and Combat Capability.

It is not we or USA who will decide the friends and foes for middle eastern countries! It the middle east itself that need to decide it! right! This is what people choice, democracy, human rights is all about that west professes day in day out! Not it is?

Here is a factoid for you. CHINA and RUSSIA along with INDIA voted against Iran in the UN. Because all the countries are convinced about the Iran's intentions.
Again voted because they have a 'right' to vote against Iran not any 'EVIDENCE'. Check your facts. dirty politcs and nothing more is on display here. That is another reason I want them go nuclear. By the way where are our 'Values and Traditions' gone? Are not we proud of being INDIANS?


What makes you think when America leaves, China would make it a stable market, how do you know China wont play like it is being played now. When you dont have power, its easy to cry foul. But when you yourself get the power, you will do exactly what america is doing.Welcome to reality and realpolitcks
Can you qoute some three places/markets that became unstable due to the presence of China or India? But you can have a 'list' of un-stable regions due to presence of US.
But when both have power no body play foul beyond a certain point! This is another reason Iran should go nuclear.

I rather have a Nuke free Middle east, than some mullah's with stupid fatwa's and Wipe them out genocidal syndrome. Such Medival fvcks.
Mullah's never have nuke capability but still some people wet thier pants! What should be the reaction of these 'MULLAHS' when those who want to 'wipe' them out have the capability to destroy the world several times over?
Come to your senses! Threat work both ways!
Instead of Nuclear bombs spread Education and Secualrism in the middle east. Let them not discriminate on the basis of religion.
These states do not need a lecture from you on spreading education, secularism and religous discrimination. Indians must see mirror before commenting here!
Enjoy!
Kashif
 
. .
Short on confidence, you look. Stand and be counted! Come out of Super Power (Over)syndrome!

Its called reality check!!! You wanna compare me and you on a personal level. Please go ahead. You wouldnt measure up.

Mere allegations! It is other way round where China has asked to come as an observer in SCO. Energy circle for China can NEVR be complete without India, and they know it!

Go read up. Dont you read newspaper's. ONGC and Chinese Oil Companies have been on each other's neck getting oil fields in Africa and South America.

This is what they have till date! What the fuss then? Any evidence against them till date? But they are continually threatened not only of WAR but a nuclear War at that! That's the reason I kick the a$$ of those who talk about dirty politics. I want Iran to be a nuclear power. Simple. Straight. No strings attached!

Iran becoming a Nuclear Power is not in the best interest of India. Sorry They will be bombed before they do it.

It is not we or USA who will decide the friends and foes for middle eastern countries! It the middle east itself that need to decide it! right! This is what people choice, democracy, human rights is all about that west professes day in day out! Not it is?

Biggest problem of the middle east, is the people themseleves not US. When did Democracy become a common word in the Middle East, Its religious xenophobia. Go to Middle east, even as a Muslim you are treated Second class citizen; because you arent an arab. This a widely accepted practice there.


Again voted because they have a 'right' to vote against Iran not any 'EVIDENCE'. Check your facts. dirty politcs and nothing more is on display here. That is another reason I want them go nuclear. By the way where are our 'Values and Traditions' gone? Are not we proud of being INDIANS?

We didnt sign the NPT. Russia was supporting Iran until China and Russia came up with the evidence of foul play. They are the one's who brought it out to the EU and USA. India voted against Iran along with all these countries.



Can you qoute some three places/markets that became unstable due to the presence of China or India? But you can have a 'list' of un-stable regions due to presence of US.
But when both have power no body play foul beyond a certain point! This is another reason Iran should go nuclear.

Yes, I can India has done a Sri Lanka, Pakistan a Afghanizatan. China in Africa. Syria with lebanon. Welcome to POLITICS. India will be as bad as the Soviets, USA, British Empire etc. People with power will take advantage of those who cant.POLITICS.

Mullah's never have nuke capability but still some people wet thier pants! What should be the reaction of these 'MULLAHS' when those who want to 'wipe' them out have the capability to destroy the world several times over?
Come to your senses! Threat work both ways!

Why are you bothered Iran, Do you have the Ummah sydrome in you. Mullah's should pray to gods, and leave politics and nation running to people's elected representive's. Not some Theocratic Ayyatollah. Israel nor US has ever threatened Iran with a Nuclear Attack. So you have a mute point.

These states do not need a lecture from you on spreading education, secularism and religous discrimination. Indians must see mirror before commenting here!
Enjoy!
Kashif

We have our negative points yes, but we are far ahead of those states you mentioned. I am a Hindu would I get same treatment you as a muslim get over here India, in Middle east. NO. I have travelled more than enough countries to know what i am talking about. So spare me the benovalent arab crap. Even Asim wouldnt agree with you on that.
Get your *** out of the muslim brotherhood crap, and think about INDIA. Which is yours and mine. Not IRan.
 
.
Its religious xenophobia. Go to Middle east, even as a Muslim you are treated Second class citizen; because you arent an arab.

Oh speak not of Shia second class citizenship in Saudi! :-)

You could be an Arab and still not be treated as equal humans because you belong to another sect of Muslims.
 
.
Thats thebasic human mentality, to fight. Some fight in the name of relegion, some in the name of boundaries, some in the name of colour of skin..its in our blood we have to fight.

For those all who think of doing good things bcoz they dont want to go to hell, i have only one thing to say..' you are already THERE '.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom