The Ball is in your Court Sir

[fatman17]

The Ball is in your Court Sir…..!


dated 15th June 2013



The allocation for Defense in the Federal Budget announced on 13th June is a whopping PKR 627 Billion or USD 6.27 Billion. According to media reports, the division of the defense allocation for the Army (PKR 301 Billion), Air force (PKR 142 Billion) and Navy (PKR 62 Billion) which comes to PKR 505 Billion, leaving PKR 122 Billion for Procurement & Development Funds.


It is assumed that the larger amounts allocated for the tri-services is for salaries and day-to-day operations of the three services, leaving the PKR 122 Billion or USD 1.22 Billion for procurement of new weapons system or continuation of current weapons programs.


We have also being reading in the media and press that the Procurement & Development plans of the Pakistan Military is facing acute delays due to unavailability of resources. Programs such as the JFT Block 2 production, the procurement of 6 Chinese Type 39 Submarines, the expansion of nuclear capable Missile Systems like the Hatf Land based and Air Launched Cruise Missiles are some of the high profile items on the military’s list.


We have also read in the media and press, the statement of the CoAS, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani that ‘we need to create a balance in our requirements of funds for development and defense of our country”.


The country is facing extremely acute energy crisis and successive governments have not been able to pay off the circular debt which has reached PKR 505 Billion (USD 5.05 Billion). The new government of PML-N has avowed to pay off the circular debt within 60 days which may be a herculean task to accomplish in the first place; however they remain clueless on how to manage the circular debt for once and all. The debt balloons when the government institutions fail to pay their energy bills to the power generation companies; it balloons when the power generation companies fail to pay off the furnace oil supplier; it balloons when the furnace oil suppliers fail to retire their LC’s opened on oil producing companies & the oil producing companies refuse to supply until the previous outstanding’s are cleared and the vicious circle continues as it has for the last 5-7 years; this debt is further compounded by the fact that the local industry, common consumers also fail to pay their energy bills on time; there is power theft and power losses due to the fact the distribution line system is obsolete.


So what does all this have to do with the Defense Budget?


As stated earlier by the CoAS and “actions should speak louder than words”, the Pakistan Military should voluntarily surrender the PKR 122 Billion back to the government coffers so that it can tackle the debilitating energy crisis. The Pakistan Military’s Development & Procurement plans are already delayed and may have to be cancelled if the energy crisis is not tackled on a ‘war footing’.


According to some economic experts, tackling the energy crisis is even more important than tackling the militancy and terrorism problem facing the country today.


The energy crisis has crippled the industrial and agricultural economy of the country. As an example, Pakistan is an agricultural based economy and the textile sector plays a huge role in the country’s yearly export earnings. The mills and looms are shutdown; the daily wagers are out of jobs because of acute power and gas shortages. In short the mills run 2 days a week…!!!


Due to the energy crisis, Pakistan is losing 5-6% of its yearly GDP. With all its problems Pakistan GDP growth rate is a partly 3.8% per annum – Fix the energy problem (read Circular debt) – the economy can churn at the rate of 8-9% per annum.


And if people pay their due share of taxes (that’s for another time and place) and the energy problem is fixed – the economy grows at a healthy pace and rate – there is more money in the government coffers – it will lead to more allocations for the defense sector – it would mean that the Pakistan Military’s Development & Procurement plans come back on track – more money to tackle the militancy problem - and to quote our CoAS “create a balance between requirements of defense & the economy”.


The ball is in your court Sir!



FM17

 

[PakPrinciples]

I personally believe 3.5% of the GDP should be allocated to the military budget.

However, as of right now the countries top priority should be the alleviation of the energy crisis. Once the crisis is resolved the economy goes back to growing at 8+% a year and the military budget would see faster growth even if it was maintained at the current level (i.e. 2.6%) and that would bring increased capabilities.

Terrorism isn't hampering growth anywhere as much as the energy crisis (which reduces our yearly GDP growth by 3 to 4%).

However, the additional revenue that the government needs to solve the energy crisis requires an increase in the tax to GDP ratio which needs to be raised to 17% (which simply meets the current budget). The increase in the current military budget simply accounts for inflation it does not give the military increased capabilities.

 

[Jango]

Your own writing?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The Ball is in your Court Sir…..!


dated 15th June 2013

The ball is in your court Sir!



FM17

Very well thought out and articulated.
The key to being a modern-day power, is economic power; not military power. Only with economic power can military power be created and sustained. The erstwhile Soviet Union and its fate is a reminder of the paradigm.
Nothing has changed since then.

 

[fatman17]

Your own writing?

miracles do happen once in a while...

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

The Ball is in your Court Sir…..!


dated 15th June 2013



The allocation for Defense in the Federal Budget announced on 13th June is a whopping PKR 627 Billion or USD 6.27 Billion. According to media reports, the division of the defense allocation for the Army (PKR 301 Billion), Air force (PKR 142 Billion) and Navy (PKR 62 Billion) which comes to PKR 505 Billion, leaving PKR 122 Billion for Procurement & Development Funds.


It is assumed that the larger amounts allocated for the tri-services is for salaries and day-to-day operations of the three services, leaving the PKR 122 Billion or USD 1.22 Billion for procurement of new weapons system or continuation of current weapons programs.


We have also being reading in the media and press that the Procurement & Development plans of the Pakistan Military is facing acute delays due to unavailability of resources. Programs such as the JFT Block 2 production, the procurement of 6 Chinese Type 39 Submarines, the expansion of nuclear capable Missile Systems like the Hatf Land based and Air Launched Cruise Missiles are some of the high profile items on the military’s list.


We have also read in the media and press, the statement of the CoAS, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani that ‘we need to create a balance in our requirements of funds for development and defense of our country”.


The country is facing extremely acute energy crisis and successive governments have not been able to pay off the circular debt which has reached PKR 505 Billion (USD 5.05 Billion). The new government of PML-N has avowed to pay off the circular debt within 60 days which may be a herculean task to accomplish in the first place; however they remain clueless on how to manage the circular debt for once and all. The debt balloons when the government institutions fail to pay their energy bills to the power generation companies; it balloons when the power generation companies fail to pay off the furnace oil supplier; it balloons when the furnace oil suppliers fail to retire their LC’s opened on oil producing companies & the oil producing companies refuse to supply until the previous outstanding’s are cleared and the vicious circle continues as it has for the last 5-7 years; this debt is further compounded by the fact that the local industry, common consumers also fail to pay their energy bills on time; there is power theft and power losses due to the fact the distribution line system is obsolete.


So what does all this have to do with the Defense Budget?


As stated earlier by the CoAS and “actions should speak louder than words”, the Pakistan Military should voluntarily surrender the PKR 122 Billion back to the government coffers so that it can tackle the debilitating energy crisis. The Pakistan Military’s Development & Procurement plans are already delayed and may have to be cancelled if the energy crisis is not tackled on a ‘war footing’.


According to some economic experts, tackling the energy crisis is even more important than tackling the militancy and terrorism problem facing the country today.


The energy crisis has crippled the industrial and agricultural economy of the country. As an example, Pakistan is an agricultural based economy and the textile sector plays a huge role in the country’s yearly export earnings. The mills and looms are shutdown; the daily wagers are out of jobs because of acute power and gas shortages. In short the mills run 2 days a week…!!!


Due to the energy crisis, Pakistan is losing 5-6% of its yearly GDP. With all its problems Pakistan GDP growth rate is a partly 3.8% per annum – Fix the energy problem (read Circular debt) – the economy can churn at the rate of 8-9% per annum.


And if people pay their due share of taxes (that’s for another time and place) and the energy problem is fixed – the economy grows at a healthy pace and rate – there is more money in the government coffers – it will lead to more allocations for the defense sector – it would mean that the Pakistan Military’s Development & Procurement plans come back on track – more money to tackle the militancy problem - and to quote our CoAS “create a balance between requirements of defense & the economy”.


The ball is in your court Sir!



FM17

@Fatman 17

Your idea sounds great but do you think that it will have any positive effect on our economy. Lets say Armed forces deffer their procurement plans for next year. Same thing which may cost $100 today will be $120 next year.
Other thing is that, if a government herself is not changing attitude, you give her 100 billions will not make any difference. These 1.2 billions will end up in fucked up schemes like sasti roti, laptops, yellow cabs or Benazir Income support program. Will this help Pakistan in any way?

The job of government is to collect taxes. The main problem of Pakistan is not defence budget but it is black economy. When posh markets like Tariq road Karachi or Liberty Lahore collectively pay mere income tax of 3 lacs, then seriously there is something very wrong. FBR openly said that they have a detail list of 3.9 millions Pakistani, who have a lavish lifestyle but are not even registered with income tax department. Sir currently only 1.8 million Pakistani pay income tax. Out of those 1.5 million are salaried persons. If government is serious about the economy of Pakistan they should target these 3.9 million tax evaders. If only 1 million new tax payers are added, you will not be saying to cut down budget of any department, instead all will be getting double allocation straight away.

Regards.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

miracles do happen once in a while...

@fatman17 sahab; that was no miracle. Just an expression of all the thoughts and knowledge that you have collected. And we were the beneficiaries of that process. Thank You!

 

[majesticpankaj]

make peace with india...

 

[Abingdonboy]

The Ball is in your Court Sir…..!


dated 15th June 2013



The allocation for Defense in the Federal Budget announced on 13th June is a whopping PKR 627 Billion or USD 6.27 Billion. According to media reports, the division of the defense allocation for the Army (PKR 301 Billion), Air force (PKR 142 Billion) and Navy (PKR 62 Billion) which comes to PKR 505 Billion, leaving PKR 122 Billion for Procurement & Development Funds.


It is assumed that the larger amounts allocated for the tri-services is for salaries and day-to-day operations of the three services, leaving the PKR 122 Billion or USD 1.22 Billion for procurement of new weapons system or continuation of current weapons programs.


We have also being reading in the media and press that the Procurement & Development plans of the Pakistan Military is facing acute delays due to unavailability of resources. Programs such as the JFT Block 2 production, the procurement of 6 Chinese Type 39 Submarines, the expansion of nuclear capable Missile Systems like the Hatf Land based and Air Launched Cruise Missiles are some of the high profile items on the military’s list.


We have also read in the media and press, the statement of the CoAS, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani that ‘we need to create a balance in our requirements of funds for development and defense of our country”.


The country is facing extremely acute energy crisis and successive governments have not been able to pay off the circular debt which has reached PKR 505 Billion (USD 5.05 Billion). The new government of PML-N has avowed to pay off the circular debt within 60 days which may be a herculean task to accomplish in the first place; however they remain clueless on how to manage the circular debt for once and all. The debt balloons when the government institutions fail to pay their energy bills to the power generation companies; it balloons when the power generation companies fail to pay off the furnace oil supplier; it balloons when the furnace oil suppliers fail to retire their LC’s opened on oil producing companies & the oil producing companies refuse to supply until the previous outstanding’s are cleared and the vicious circle continues as it has for the last 5-7 years; this debt is further compounded by the fact that the local industry, common consumers also fail to pay their energy bills on time; there is power theft and power losses due to the fact the distribution line system is obsolete.


So what does all this have to do with the Defense Budget?


As stated earlier by the CoAS and “actions should speak louder than words”, the Pakistan Military should voluntarily surrender the PKR 122 Billion back to the government coffers so that it can tackle the debilitating energy crisis. The Pakistan Military’s Development & Procurement plans are already delayed and may have to be cancelled if the energy crisis is not tackled on a ‘war footing’.


According to some economic experts, tackling the energy crisis is even more important than tackling the militancy and terrorism problem facing the country today.


The energy crisis has crippled the industrial and agricultural economy of the country. As an example, Pakistan is an agricultural based economy and the textile sector plays a huge role in the country’s yearly export earnings. The mills and looms are shutdown; the daily wagers are out of jobs because of acute power and gas shortages. In short the mills run 2 days a week…!!!


Due to the energy crisis, Pakistan is losing 5-6% of its yearly GDP. With all its problems Pakistan GDP growth rate is a partly 3.8% per annum – Fix the energy problem (read Circular debt) – the economy can churn at the rate of 8-9% per annum.


And if people pay their due share of taxes (that’s for another time and place) and the energy problem is fixed – the economy grows at a healthy pace and rate – there is more money in the government coffers – it will lead to more allocations for the defense sector – it would mean that the Pakistan Military’s Development & Procurement plans come back on track – more money to tackle the militancy problem - and to quote our CoAS “create a balance between requirements of defense & the economy”.


The ball is in your court Sir!



FM17

Nice piece @fatman17 sir. I'm just wondering what makes you think the Pakistani military would even entertain this notion as for most of its history it has been entirely self-serving. As has been pointed out over the last few days and weeks- the military is having a pretty cushy time of things, they are not experiencing the "loadshedding", they are not having to pay certain bills (railways), they have their own industries (textiles and agro) from which they get additional revenue. Do you really think anyone in the Pakistani military would now consider this request when they have sat by and accepted this state of affairs for how many years now? What has changed? Why now would they stick their necks out? As cliche as it is to say concerning Pakistan- "all countries have armies, but here, an army has a country."


If this was ever read by the PA, I see that your well meaning words would simply fall on deaf ears.

 

[Manindra]

Many factors that affects Pakistan economy.
Example like army run industries and for civilian field that makes monopoly and discourage competition.
Feudal system are also damage pakistan economy very badly and surprisingly most elites of pakistan are tax defaulter and nobody cares.
Is income tax departmnt of pakistan in coma?

 

[Hemlock Khalid]

The Ball is in your Court Sir…..!


dated 15th June 2013



The allocation for Defense in the Federal Budget announced on 13th June is a whopping PKR 627 Billion or USD 6.27 Billion. According to media reports, the division of the defense allocation for the Army (PKR 301 Billion), Air force (PKR 142 Billion) and Navy (PKR 62 Billion) which comes to PKR 505 Billion, leaving PKR 122 Billion for Procurement & Development Funds.


It is assumed that the larger amounts allocated for the tri-services is for salaries and day-to-day operations of the three services, leaving the PKR 122 Billion or USD 1.22 Billion for procurement of new weapons system or continuation of current weapons programs.


We have also being reading in the media and press that the Procurement & Development plans of the Pakistan Military is facing acute delays due to unavailability of resources. Programs such as the JFT Block 2 production, the procurement of 6 Chinese Type 39 Submarines, the expansion of nuclear capable Missile Systems like the Hatf Land based and Air Launched Cruise Missiles are some of the high profile items on the military’s list.


We have also read in the media and press, the statement of the CoAS, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani that ‘we need to create a balance in our requirements of funds for development and defense of our country”.


The country is facing extremely acute energy crisis and successive governments have not been able to pay off the circular debt which has reached PKR 505 Billion (USD 5.05 Billion). The new government of PML-N has avowed to pay off the circular debt within 60 days which may be a herculean task to accomplish in the first place; however they remain clueless on how to manage the circular debt for once and all. The debt balloons when the government institutions fail to pay their energy bills to the power generation companies; it balloons when the power generation companies fail to pay off the furnace oil supplier; it balloons when the furnace oil suppliers fail to retire their LC’s opened on oil producing companies & the oil producing companies refuse to supply until the previous outstanding’s are cleared and the vicious circle continues as it has for the last 5-7 years; this debt is further compounded by the fact that the local industry, common consumers also fail to pay their energy bills on time; there is power theft and power losses due to the fact the distribution line system is obsolete.


So what does all this have to do with the Defense Budget?


As stated earlier by the CoAS and “actions should speak louder than words”, the Pakistan Military should voluntarily surrender the PKR 122 Billion back to the government coffers so that it can tackle the debilitating energy crisis. The Pakistan Military’s Development & Procurement plans are already delayed and may have to be cancelled if the energy crisis is not tackled on a ‘war footing’.


According to some economic experts, tackling the energy crisis is even more important than tackling the militancy and terrorism problem facing the country today.


The energy crisis has crippled the industrial and agricultural economy of the country. As an example, Pakistan is an agricultural based economy and the textile sector plays a huge role in the country’s yearly export earnings. The mills and looms are shutdown; the daily wagers are out of jobs because of acute power and gas shortages. In short the mills run 2 days a week…!!!


Due to the energy crisis, Pakistan is losing 5-6% of its yearly GDP. With all its problems Pakistan GDP growth rate is a partly 3.8% per annum – Fix the energy problem (read Circular debt) – the economy can churn at the rate of 8-9% per annum.


And if people pay their due share of taxes (that’s for another time and place) and the energy problem is fixed – the economy grows at a healthy pace and rate – there is more money in the government coffers – it will lead to more allocations for the defense sector – it would mean that the Pakistan Military’s Development & Procurement plans come back on track – more money to tackle the militancy problem - and to quote our CoAS “create a balance between requirements of defense & the economy”.


The ball is in your court Sir!



FM17

brilliant idea sir... though i cant see any such example in the world... what about another idea? our tax revenue generation is only 9% of GDP... do i dare propose the idea and put ball in PM`s court by saying that they shud try to take those trillions from thousands of giants in politics...

 

[SQ8]

@WebMaster

Publish on main page.. after edit??

 

[Hyperion]

@fatman17, well done!

 

[Xeric]

Nice piece @fatman17 sir. I'm just wondering what makes you think the Pakistani military would even entertain this notion as for most of its history it has been entirely self-serving. As has been pointed out over the last few days and weeks- the military is having a pretty cushy time of things, they are not experiencing the "loadshedding", they are not having to pay certain bills (railways), they have their own industries (textiles and agro) from which they get additional revenue. Do you really think anyone in the Pakistani military would now consider this request when they have sat by and accepted this state of affairs for how many years now? What has changed? Why now would they stick their necks out? As cliche as it is to say concerning Pakistan- "all countries have armies, but here, an army has a country."


If this was ever read by the PA, I see that your well meaning words would simply fall on deaf ears.

FYKI, the military is already sharing this notion for quite some time now, when:

It donated a hefty amount out of its defence budget/allocation for eartgquack effectees of 2008 without anyone even knowing about it.

It educates more than 5k Balochi students under the CBEP (Xeric's Primer: Chamalang Balochistan Education Programme (CBEP)) initiative in Balochistan.

It construct schools and give off free books.

Donates rations of its soldiers in addition to pays (which almost every govt does).

Kick start projet of National importance suchas Chamalang Coal Mines, Duki Coal, Kassa Marble (http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ng-activities-pakistani-army.html#post2410537) without any compensation, rather it consumes its resources on these projects, suffer critical shortfalls in meeting its requirnments as it expends monies which were to sustain the military and still stands tall.

Construct bridg3s, raods and maintaun schools in FATA from own resources, and still listen to people here who ask silly questions like 'hey, why wasnt there any air support during xyz operation', 'why dont our troops have Counter IED vehicles instead of toyota hilux?' etc.

On one side tgese guys expect our militry to b top class in all respects including equipment, and then they
hey also weep over the ever incresing defence budget. Stupidity perhaps?!


Now coming over to your other ill founded accusations:

Railway bills

Which railway bills the army wont pay? Whenever a body of troops, equipment or papers get transported via the railways, the army or for that matter all the services pay the charges like everyone else out of its defence budget. Whether it is a unit moving from one place to another or men are going for training activities, railways get paid in cash before the journey commences.

Earnings from Military Business entities have nothing to do with the defence budget. They are seperate entities with their own expenses and profits. For more info:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/149283-pak-armed-forces-non-military-projects-7.html

Fauji Fuandation, DHA, Askari etc returns back approx Rs 300 billion yearly in taxes to the govt. That's tge only 'problem' i see with these MilBus, i dont know what other are there that you wanted us to know?

So sir Fat, whereas i respect your suggestion and do consider it workable, but then if i compare what the Army had already given back to the Nation by doing any one of the actions as i have mntioned above (each of which had returned or had earned the govt an amount which was higher than these Rs 122 billion, Chamalmang alone has deposites amounting to Rs 2000 billion Xeric's Primer: Chamalang Coal Mines - Pak Army's Gift to the Nation), and even then if the govt and our politicians cant put the country back on track, i dont think giving back these 122 B woukd do any better.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

The Ball is in your Court Sir…..!


dated 15th June 2013



.....................
So what does all this have to do with the Defense Budget?


As stated earlier by the CoAS and “actions should speak louder than words”, the Pakistan Military should voluntarily surrender the PKR 122 Billion back to the government coffers so that it can tackle the debilitating energy crisis. The Pakistan Military’s Development & Procurement plans are already delayed and may have to be cancelled if the energy crisis is not tackled on a ‘war footing’........................
The ball is in your court Sir!



FM17

May I dare make a counter proposal:

It is the government that should surrender all the rest of the budget to the Army, and let the Army come up with the solutions needed for the power and other ailing sectors.

I am willing to bet that my suggestion will be more effective than yours in dealing with the economic crises we are facing these days.