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The Attack on Pakistan's Erieye

Araz Sahab, 1 destroyed, 2 partially damaged. Official version has too many loopholes that's why can't digest it.

Marey bhai.
There is no sign of any damage to the hanger. Please explain to me the mechanism of destruction. You cant have a plane destryed without any fire and if there was fire all the three would have been up in smoke.It is illogical . Now it may be that Taimis version may be closer to the truth and there maybe more damage to the plane itself which has been lookedat by someone who is your source.However it still doesnot make a credible news of one destroyed and 2 damaged.
Araz
 
The "official version" is not credible enough, it seems, correct as it may very well be in this case.

OK lets believe it to be whichever way you want. The point is that there maybe more damage to the plane thanPAF will let us believe, but to purport a version which is not logical is not wise either.
Araz
 
There is nothing wrong with parking planes in sheds. This is how PAF has been doing it for last 60 years and this is how most of the air forces do it around the world. sheds are built to protect planes from elements,not terrorist acts.

Solution is not to build concrete bunkers for all your assets rather build a multi-layered perimeter access control, an effective monitoring and guarding system with 24/7 base security control room (electronic fences, watch towers with snipers, guards and dogs on foot, CCTV/tghermal imaging cameras), and a swift response team with atleast one attack heli equiped with day/night all weather attack capability.

Entirely agreed with your post. The point is, in the absence of (for whatever reason) the security patrols, the dogs, automated gate locking / threat perception systems, towers, gunmen, etc, etc....the LEAST they can do is to built a WALL PERIMETER around the hangers or around the shed. With a massive electronic iron access control gate. This is the CHEAPEST option out of all the ones you mentioned. Say even if the terrorists make it to the the base all the way to where these so called hangers are....guess what? They'll know see 15 foot tall walls with electric fence on it and a heavy duty iron gate that can sustain a few hits of RPG. Plus the walls are so tall that they can't see inside.
Now inside, the hangers walls also provide security as an additional layer in case RPG randomly makes it inside. BUT it'll never be accurate as they can't see inside and know what to target.

As they try to blast a while in the concrete wall or destroy the gate. It is NOT counting 1,2,3,4....the gate and the walls will easily sustain a few heavy hit. Resulting in more than a few minutes worth of delay to the movement of these terrorist. ENOUGH time for the backup force to get there and kill them. This is the cheapest and most effective way of protecting these. Add a tower somewhere that upon the first gun shots, can electronically close the iron gate if it was open due to the flight activity. You've NOW segregated your most important assets in an area that denies visibility and access inside and will result in almost 5-10 minutes worth of delay in the movement.
 
I think we need to end this speculative thread , Saab Awacs are flying and on duty case closed nothing was mentioned in news

As for funding for Terrorism

CIA , USA embassy

Step one Agents come into Pakistan with fake names and ID
They land as ambassadors , bring in cargo containers in C130 planes some has weapons and money
The money is transported to US embassy
The Agents then , get in touch with other rouge agents who come into Pakistan thru normal civilian channels , they transport the cash to these agent

The secondary agents then , start a process to identify Anti Pakistan elements , mostly in Terrorist infested zones close to Afghanistan , and return for Anti Aircraft guns and heavy weapons they form an alliance.

They also hire mercenary assassins , who are willing to do killings and bombings in return for
favors for their "cause" US Embassy representative (agent) agrees that US supports their cause
They provide them necessary cash and weapons and intelligence on sensitive things

example: P3C orions or other sensitive information

Cetrain elements are supported by agents and these terrorist are forwarded huge amount of moeny , CIA has the capabilities to infiltrate banks and to make the transactions appear legal
which is why such huge sum deposits take place.

While its hard for normal Pakistani to open bank account with 10,000 rupees , the Terrorist are able to open accounts with over 1 crore rupees

US EMBASSY = cause of Terror network in Pakistan

US embassy agents then go forward and build networks with news-reporters and anchors who in turn , try to pressure existing governments with their policies , the Agents also spread false information as to who is bombing in Pakistan , every thing good or bad is labelled on a fictional character "TTP Taliban" a rouge entity with no leader , some how develops form thin air

Coincidentally the formation of TTP Taliban is directly related to the increase of US visa issuance to US Embassy workers

The Agents also scan Pakistani nuclear zones, and try to figure out possible scenarios and the data is updated into US intelligence

Meanwhile they are also busy to keep Pakistani Military occupied inside Pakistan with constant bombings and other inventive ideas , in order to ensure that Pakistan does not think about invading Afghanistan in order to punish the Terrorist floating in and out freely

There is no such thing as TTP , what we have is US embassy and the Agents , moving black money and illegal weapons into Pakistan and intelligence from US Embassy is how the Terrorist are able to pull off daring missions into deep military areas

Tell you the truth (and it'll hurt some but it'll also benefit the ones who have open minds, irrespective to the conspiracy theories). My post is going to be blunt so my apologies, I am not trying to hurt Pakistan or Pakistanis. Instead, I am going to be realistic. So here it goes:

I think, the conspiracy theories should stop against the US. Behind the TTP, I won't be surprised if India is involved. The US may turn their head in a different direction due to the Indian connection. But the US isn't involved. Here's why:
1: The US's been bitten by these same crazy people on 9-11. Trust me, one lesson learned is that these guys (Talibans, etc) are lose cannons. They've killed Americans, Europeans and more than anything their own Muslim population. So...these guys are not trust worthy for any cause and they are just mentally f'd up.
2: If the CIA or any US agency was REALLY that much against Pakistan. I think they could've achieved much serious results if they wanted to.... so its unfair to say that for the past 50-60 years, its the US working against Pakistan, when they've give Pakistan billions of dollars in aid.

In fact, it is your OWN leadership who don't want the average Pakistanis to progress so that they remain in power. The solution lies within the Pakistani public. Using the US as an escape goat for people's laziness is getting old. The Pakistanis need to drive the change towards education, peace, internal stability, intolerance, etc. The outsiders, the US, Canada, the UK...will come and invest but the security and the stability has to be there.

3: The US has provided tremendous financial assistance for over 60 years now. There were many decades when US's assistance paid for majority of government's salaries, big projects around education, energy, military, etc. So keep blaming the US can and will impact that. The US truly wants to have a realistic relationship with the Pakistanis. It is time that people understand that they need to take their country forward...it their job, not the US's.
The US is willing to provide assistance BUT Pakistan isn't their 51st state. So they can't create the direction for you.

4: Pakistan has a large number of nucs and it is growing. Breaking down Pakistan or put it through a war or whatever conspiracy theories suggest, makes no sense and it is detrimental to the US's own interests. Because a destabilizing Pakistan can become insanely difficult to deal with and decentralization of its military means the US would have to deal with many different groups, including the ones that kill their own Pakistani brethren for power.

Would the US rather have Pakistan's military safeguard the nucs with the US cooperation in a centralized manner or would they want 9 provincial armies or governments to safeguard those? The answer is ONE institution is what the US and others need and that's what they have. It's worked the best for the world in case of nukes. At times it may be challenging between the two BUT the US enjoys a good working relationship with the Pakistani military for over six decades now. So these issues can be discussed and fixed.
5: Issues in this region impact the US's trillions of dollars of investments made in India, Afghanistan, China, etc, etc. Now add nukes to the picture....the picture looks VERY hazy from a stability's standpoint. The US wouldn't want to risk so much of its own money, businesses, people, data, systems, etc, etc to be lost in case of a war.
6: The China factor. What would the US prefer? a Pakistan where the US has no influence and its all just China focused..... or a Pakistan that enjoys a relationship with both, the US and China??

Last but not least, the US has listed Pakistan in the list of top economies by 2025 (again, I might add, Pakistan was in that list until 1998 too). If the US had 'other' interests....why would it tell its economy power houses (Goldman, Lehman, Morgan Stanley, etc), its people, and businesses to consider Pakistan as one of the next big economies and invest their money into it......????
I guarantee you guys. If your politicians get their crap together and the people take a positive spin towards meaningful relations with the US....the US will ensure economic growth in Pakistan. Net, Net, it is a 60 year long relationship and every marriage has its ups and downs. Pakistan needs to grow economically so that there is more education, less intolerance and 0% fundamentalism. That ALL requires assistance and the US is willing to provide that. Granted that Pakistan creates a safer environment for investments to flow in.
Your real issues are Afghanistan and India. Not the US. If you guys still believe in conspiracy theories....then read the above again and it'll click with you. A financially stable and prospering Pakistan will eliminate the current relationships it has with India and Afghanistan. EVERYONE wants to do business with a country that's growing and prosperous. The days of wars and fighting are over. The next wars will be economic wars, innovation in technology, and simply, the numbers. The nation that makes the most numbers will remain influential and can write their own destiny. Is Pakistan ready for it? Are its people ready for their country to proceed towards growth and prosperity??
 
They'll know see 15 foot tall walls with electric fence on it and a heavy duty iron gate that can sustain a few hits of RPG. Plus the walls are so tall that they can't see inside.

I understand your and everyone elses concerns, to be honest Iam pissed too and big time, first on the loss on the hands of indian sponsored terrorists,and secondly on the inaction on the governments part. Had we paid back the favour to indians in the same currency with interest, Kamra wouldn't have happened.

Fo rthe bolded part, RPG's are known to take down tanks, and no matter how heavy the gates are hinges and locks will always be vulnerable. My point is why let themreach so close, Perimeter can be secured by a digging a 1 or two feet deep 10 feet wide waterway right inside the perimeter wall, fill it with water and electrify it. or dig a 10 foot deep ditch right inside boundry wall and put rolls of electrified barbed wire accross the length. Securing perimeter is no rocket science,you just have to be creative and think outside the box,keep it simple and cheap and it works.
 
OK lets believe it to be whichever way you want. The point is that there maybe more damage to the plane thanPAF will let us believe, but to purport a version which is not logical is not wise either.
Araz


I can accept that, Sir, without a problem. How to improve credibility is something for the authorities concerned to consider, but that is a long and arduous process and can wait for another time I suppose.
 
Securing the air base or any other vital facilities could be done. Look when there is a WILL there is always a WAY.
I admit this attack was a failure at the part of PAF. Considering the type of threats in current environment & Mehran base attack, there must not have been left any stone unturned.

Concrete bunkers, gates, towers, dogs, electrical fences etc. Every thing must be have been used (and should be used) to meet any such threat. I was in Karachi before 2 months of Mehran attack. In morning while driving over Shara-e-Faisal Fly-over. I was amazed at the kind of security of PNS Mehran. I mean, from that fly-over you can view entire Mehran base, all the hangers and Planes parked in open. Terrorist did'nt need to enter the perimeters, they can have fired RPG's from that fly-over and could have destroyed Orion aircraft.

Similarly in Karmra, why the hell were SAAB's even visible from outside the airbase??
At least PAF can even line-up 4,5 Containers in such a way to hide the planes from direct line of sight from terrorist.

Everything is possible, its not a rocket science either.
 
I tend not to post anti forces posts, I think nation should have confidence on all the arms of forces because if whole nation is supporting them they perform beyond expectations, but all this patriotism should not stop anyone from constructively criticising their actions.

I do not understand 2 things why were 3 erieye in the same hanger, people were saying it was a coincidence and they were never kept in one place before, well I know for a fact that it is a lie and they were kept in one hanger all the time.

Secondly State of Pakistan paid bloody $ 1 bn for these aircraft's and the air force could not built a decent hanger for them.
Last time I saw the ''HANGER'' it was open from all four sides there were no walls and the roof was made of a steel sheet.
At least 3 separate concrete hangers could have been built for no more than $ 3-4 mil.

I will post the picture later on, and also some other pics which will show the ''professionalism'' of air force engineers and workers.

BtA2Q.jpg

@Last Hope. Is this the picture you were talking about? coz the way you started with your usual style, I got a very strong impression whether your source is very naive or you are very naive

I received this latest picture from unknown source, could be well probably released on will of PAF, showing 3 Saab-2000 with AEW&C suits which are in a temporary hangar, which is being developed as you can see the workers One can assume that the other hangar(s) is/are being made stronger as to withstand any further terrorist attack.
 
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There is no such thing as 100% security, there will always be loopholes and there will always be people willing to go an extra mile to exploit those loop holes. We need to evaulate our vulnerbilities before they become threats and this is a never ending task.
 
^^^ This pucture is from 2011 and everybody knows that...
He may have got some other pictures which we coulnt see for reasons unknown.
 
@Last Hope. Is this the picture you were talking about? coz the way you started with your usual style, I got a very strong impression whether your source is very naive or you are very naive

I provided this picture and it was taken before mid Oct 2011. My understanding is that later on PAF put TIN Sheets around this hanger. All this happened before the attack.
 
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any senior member or mod please update the detail regarding the number of SAAB operational and their status....
total number of awacs in operation of PAF...
 
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