The Arab Military Option

[Takaavar]

Before an Iranian calls Arabs "cowards" should look at his own "gariban" (underwear).

I said about certain states. OK not cowards. But still traitors.

Puny Iraq was able to fend off mighty Iran for years.

What?

Iranian army hasn't seen a real war with a country that was equal or larger than Iran. Threatening tiny GCC, or a distant Israel is just f@rting that stinks up your own house and nothing more.

So, What was Iran-'Iraq' war? Didn't Iran, after revolution when was at the worst possible situation, fought with a country which had the strongest forces in ME at that time, supported by the superpower and almost whole Arab world as well as many others? You obviously don't know sh!t about about Iran-Iraq war.
When did Iran threatened GCC?!! We don't even care about them.
Anyways I don't know what's your point and what this has to do with my post / this thread? But if you are trying to say Iran is weak, here you go

Iran's military has been called the Middle East's most powerful by General John Abizaid chief of United States Central Command (U.S. forces' commander in the region). However General Abizaid said he did not include the Israel Defense Forces as they did not fall into his area of operations.[10]

Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peace is the only way to go.

Ofcourse it is.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I said about certain states.


1.
OK not cowards. But still traitors.

What?

So, What was Iran-'Iraq' war? Didn't Iran, after revolution when was at the worst possible situation, fought with a country which had the strongest forces in ME at that time, supported by the superpower and almost whole Arab world as well as many others? You obviously don't know sh!t about about Iran-Iraq war.
When did Iran threatened GCC?!! We don't even care about them.
Anyways I don't know what's your point and what this has to do with my post / this thread? But if you are trying to say Iran is weak, here you go

2.

Iran's military has been called the Middle East's most powerful by General John Abizaid chief of United States Central Command (U.S. forces' commander in the region).........

Ofcourse it is.

1. If Arabs are traitors as per an Irani, then Iran could be traitor as per an Arab. Who gives Iran an authority to declare another nationality as "traitor"? Perhaps Ayatooooooolahs have that authority from Allah mian?


2. My hats are off to Iranian army. But you must have noted that Abizad's experience in the Middle East wars was based on Saddam and Mollah Umer. And yes iranian army is stronger than the million of sheep commanded by Saddam (also known as Iraqi army), and 1000s of goats commanded by Mulllli Omer (also known as Afghan army).

But then we must be careful when the strength of Iranian army is compared to sheep and goat. Any celebration resulting from such comparison is very harmful for Individual's brain and for the army being compared to sheep and goat.


peace

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

What the hell is going on here!? I was asked and answered the question. That's it. Now stick to the topic plz. The book is one of the greatest you can get talking about Arab-Israeli wars.

 

[Takaavar]

1. If Arabs are traitors as per an Irani, then Iran could be traitor as per an Arab. Who gives Iran an authority to declare another nationality as "traitor"? Perhaps Ayatooooooolahs have that authority from Allah mian?


2. My hats are off to Iranian army. But you must have noted that Abizad's experience in the Middle East wars was based on Saddam and Mollah Umer. And yes iranian army is stronger than the million of sheep commanded by Saddam (also known as Iraqi army), and 1000s of goats commanded by Mulllli Omer (also known as Afghan army).

But then we must be careful when the strength of Iranian army is compared to sheep and goat. Any celebration resulting from such comparison is very harmful for Individual's brain and for the army being compared to sheep and goat.


peace

1. AGAIN I said that about some certain countries regardless of their language or ethnicity. In my opinion, between us, anyone who bows to west is traitor, period.

2. wth!

 

[The SC]

What the hell is going on here!? I was asked and answered the question. That's it. Now stick to the topic plz. The book is one of the greatest you can get talking about Arab-Israeli wars.

General Chazly was one of the youngest and most brilliant Arab generals of recent times, he engineered the crossing of the supposedly invincible Barlev line, a feat still taught in major military institutions around the globe.
The politicians than (Anouar Sadat) had their own secret agenda and a strategic view of the outcome, i.e; the liberation of the Sinai peninsula by political means if at all possible.
It was not possible until the Egyptian armed forces sent a chock wave through the spine of Israel, than he US forces the latter to the table of negotiations and to hand over Sinai to Egypt.
During the 1973 Ramadan war, it was the first time of a global red alert where the US and the than Soviet Union went on full nuclear alert. So Israel as in many other conflicts was endangering the whole planet's life by its stubbornness and arrogance.

So people can say what they want, but Arabs are stronger today than yesterday and getting stronger by the hour, with the main purpose of self reliance in all military weapon systems as a deterrent and for an efficient self defence.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

General Chazly was one of the youngest and most brilliant Arab generals of recent times, he engineered the crossing of the supposedly invincible Barlev line, a feat still taught in major military institutions around the globe.
The politicians than (Anouar Sadat) had their own secret agenda and a strategic view of the outcome, i.e; the liberation of the Sinai peninsula by political means if at all possible.
It was not possible until the Egyptian armed forces sent a chock wave through the spine of Israel, than he US forces the latter to the table of negotiations and to hand over Sinai to Egypt.
During the 1973 Ramadan war, it was the first time of a global red alert where the US and the than Soviet Union went on full nuclear alert. So Israel as in many other conflicts was endangering the whole planet's life by its stubbornness and arrogance.

So people can say what they want, but Arabs are stronger today than yesterday and getting stronger by the hour, with the main purpose of self reliance in all military weapon systems as a deterrent and for an efficient self defence.

Bro, you and some other Arab members I do genuinely respect, unlike the followers of kings and queens. General Shazly was brilliant indeed. His book is well written, easy to read, reflects his intelligence and wit, clear view of all aspects affecting the outcome of a military conflict. It is in relation to this I want to quote one very telling fact about certain desert kingdoms that are still true because those kingdoms retain the same tribal mentalities.


I request you to read from Page 151 onwards to Page 156.

In 1983, Libya's defence budget peaked at $709 million. Saudi Arabia's defence budget the same year was $21,952 million, after several years at roughly that level. Yet Libya contrives to deploy 2900 main battle tanks and 496 front-line combat-aircraft, while Saudi Arabia owns just 450 tanks and a pitiful 65 front-line aircraft. The question has to be asked: Where has all that Saudi money gone?

I also quote from Page 152.

In 1983, the total defence budget of all Arab countries totalled $46,052 million. The Gulf states alone accounted for $26,847 million of that, which is 58 per cent. Yet those states manage to deploy only 5.6 per cent of the total Arab tank force and only 6.6 per cent of the total Arab strength in front-line combat aircraft. Clearly, the defence spending of the Gulf states is overdue for hard questions and radical reform.

From Page 153

The profligacy of the Gulf states' military spending is the more shameful because if their combined budget were rationally and prudently spent it would equip them with armed forces equal to those of West Germany -- which deploys 4254 main battle tanks, 7636 armoured fighting vehicles, 551 front-line combat-aircraft, 24 submarines, 20 medium-sized surface vessels, and 38 missile-launching fast attack craft. And even after that, the Gulf states would have a surplus of $8,000 million which they could offer as military aid to the poorer Arab nations.

Again from page 153

The first weakness is the absence of professional and experienced military commanders. With the exception of Egypt, Syria, and Iraq, no Arab country has field divisional headquarters or any headquarters for higher formations still. Some armed forces do not have even field brigade headquarters.

The Arab Military Option - Saad Shazly -


I wonder what Blackeagle and other worshipper of kings will argue about now? Is not it amply clear that Western stooges only siphon off money from oil sales revenues to their personal accounts without benefiting their own countries?

 

[Banglar Lathial]

It should be noted that even today, the publicly declared military expenditure of a single desert kingdom like KSA is more than that of India. Can anybody seriously claim that Saudi is a stronger military power than India in any sphere?

1. Army
2. Air Force
3. Navy
4. Air Defence
5. Ballistic missile
6. Space
7. WMD

 

[The SC]

I think they are remedying to that nowadays, but the main question remaining pertains to competent and above average military commanders, since genius can not be bought nor sold.
The Arabs should encourage and promote their geniuses to higher places, be it civilian or military.

There is only one problem; how can an average or below average person in power recognise genius? and accept it as superior!

 

[Banglar Lathial]

I think they are remedying to that nowadays, but the main question remaining pertains to competent and above average military commanders, since genius can not be bought nor sold.
The Arabs should encourage and promote their geniuses to higher places, be it civilian or military.

There is only one problem; how can an average or below average person in power recognise genius? and accept it as superior!

Bro, seriously, I respect you and many other Arabs in this forum and elsewhere in real life, as well as many notable Arab Muslims. Just read the parts from Gen Shazly's book that I have quoted, and consider the spending by Saudi and India. Is Saudi Arabia, despite spending more than India, a more powerful country in military terms in any way?

Where does all that money go? Isn't that what Gen Shazly asked?

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Bro, seriously, I respect you and many other Arabs in this forum and elsewhere in real life, as well as many notable Arab Muslims. Just read the parts from Gen Shazly's book that I have quoted, and consider the spending by Saudi and India. Is Saudi Arabia, despite spending more than India, a more powerful country in military terms in any way?

Where does all that money go? Isn't that what Gen Shazly asked?

Who are you again? trolling and questioning where did others spend their money, you Bengali? rather than discussing core issues. So, what? try and ask this question to a Saudi in real life, just to see what would happen to your face.

 

[Arabian Legend]

Who are you again? trolling and questioning where did others spend their money, you Bengali? rather than discussing core issues. So, what? try and ask this question to a Saudi in real life, just to see what would happen to your face.

this guy is a jock man

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

Arabs do not have any military option. Anyone talking about one is living in a distant past or on a distant planet or both.

Arabs do have "peace" option, and an option to be "tolerant".


73 war was a huge blunder. So many years have gone by and even now Egypt has to ask for Israeli permission to send its army across Suez.

Still people come here and try to f@rt at Israel, while their fellow Arab leaders are killing their fellow Arabs by the 1000s year after year after year. And still these brave Arabs and their lackeys from Pakistan can only sit around and f@rt some constipated conspiracy theories about America and Israel.

pathetic. really pathetic.

So guys. Learn the true history and present about Arab armies. Otherwise the rest of the world will continue laughing at you.


peace

we need isreal permission to be in sector C in sainai and what do you mean true history we fought and won in the 73 war we have taken back our land by military and diplomatic means let me ask you what is war ? and how could you say who won or lost ? the country who forced the enemy to do what we want at the end and we did just that

Egypt recognize Hezbollah as a terrorist group,

yes we do they were planning terrorists attacks in the suez canal and a group of them were arrested in sainai any other country would have done the same

Can you tell what is the main reason that is blocking such thing to happen in ME?

it cant be done for more than 60 years they are trying and it cant be done and I as a egyptian citizen i dont want it

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Who are you again? trolling and questioning where did others spend their money, you Bengali? rather than discussing core issues. So, what? try and ask this question to a Saudi in real life, just to see what would happen to your face.

You sound like a deranged lunatic with your incoherent rambling. Try to be more logical.

What do you think will happen if I ask this to a Saudi in real life? Can you show me? Do you want to come to BD and show me?

Saudi Arabian prince beaten up in Lebanon - Emirates 24/7

Saudi Arabian prince beaten up in Lebanon

Imagine this happens to a 'prince' in your fellow Arab country (but not a desert dwelling nation).

This happened to a Saudi in Saudi Arabia.

Sidelights: Man Beaten Up for Getting in Wrong Car | ArabNews

A thirty-something Saudi man received a good beating from a family

Refusing to cooperate:

Refusing to cooperate: ‘ASF men rough up Saudi embassy official’

Saudi Student Arrested in TX for Plotting Terrorist Attack Against GW Bush | TheBlaze.com

Terror suspect Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari.

These all come from your 'brotherly', 'friendly' or 'allied' countries. If you want to tell me what would happen, you can come to BD also, but rest assured most people in the world, including BD, do not care about your Hashemite King and nobody would care if one lone Jordanian goes missing.

this guy is a jock man

Keep stroking each other.

 

[Hope Loust II]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It should be noted that even today, the publicly declared military expenditure of a single desert kingdom like KSA is more than that of India. Can anybody seriously claim that Saudi is a stronger military power than India in any sphere?

1. Army
2. Air Force
3. Navy
4. Air Defence
5. Ballistic missile
6. Space
7. WMD


----------------------------------------------------------

This is a good point.

And we could also ask the same for Saudia v/s Pakistan...........

It should be noted that even today, the publicly declared military expenditure of a single desert kingdom like KSA is more than that of Pakistan. Can anybody seriously claim that Saudi is a stronger military power than Pakistan in any sphere?

1. Army
2. Air Force
3. Navy
4. Air Defence
5. Ballistic missile
6. Space
7. WMD

 

[Hope Loust II]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In 1983, the total defence budget of all Arab countries totalled $46,052 million. The Gulf states alone accounted for $26,847 million of that, which is 58 per cent. Yet those states manage to deploy only 5.6 per cent of the total Arab tank force and only 6.6 per cent of the total Arab strength in front-line combat aircraft.

In 1983, Libya's defence budget peaked at $709 million. Saudi Arabia's defence budget the same year was $21,952 million, after several years at roughly that level. Yet Libya contrives to deploy 2900 main battle tanks and 496 front-line combat-aircraft, while Saudi Arabia owns just 450 tanks and a pitiful 65 front-line aircraft. The question has to be asked: Where has all that Saudi money gone?

----------------------------------------------------------

This is a good point.

But the reality is a little trickier.

Defense Budgets today are of three types, depending on which country we are talking about:

1) Western-aided Budgets (E.g. Egypt, Jordan)
2) Non-aided Budgets in Western Alliance (E.g. Saudia, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, Oman et cetera)
3) Non-aided Budgets not in Western Alliance (E.g. Syria, Libya, pre-2003 Iraq, Algeria et cetera)

Note that counties in (1) can have very low defense budgets and still have a lot of tanks, aircraft et cetera, because the United State just gives it to them for free.

The countries in (2) need higher defense budgets because they actually have to pay for their tanks, aircraft et cetera. In addition, by the nature of their Western-tilt they must buy all their hardware from expensive producers in the West (US, NATO).

The countries in (3) can have lower defense budgets than the countries in (2) and still have more tanks and aircraft et cetera because they can purchase lower-cost equipment in undervalued currencies from Russia, Ukraine, China. Example, MIG-31 is 25 MM$ whereas a Euro/US equivalent is 100 MM$. Ukrainian T-90s are 3 MM$, US Abrams are 9 MM$ and so on. So Russian or Chinese supplied countries can have 3-4-5 times the number of tanks and aircraft as US-supplied countries for the same international dollar expense.

So we cannot directly compare defense budgets with number of tanks, aircraft et cetera.

We must first account for the following differences:

1) Does this country get Western Military Aid (i.e. Free Weapons)?
2) Does this country buy from the West or from Russia/China?
3) Does this country actually make anything or does it import everything

Upon closer examination, it appears that the GCC countries do not get aid and they are forced to buy very, very expensive equipment from the West/US/Nato because of their alliance status.