That inept 'Saint Antony'

[arp2041]

On Secularism Index I would rate Saint Antony 9/10..............

On Defense index I would rate him...................Does it matter anyway in INDIA???

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Let me give you a smart statistic.
From the point of DAC approval to contract signing and finally money being released the average time taken is between 48-60 months and median is 54.
Thus what MP talks now about so called approvals, all are meaningless unless such contracts are signed and a suitable signing amount is paid by GOI.

Pls do check what industry was reacting to our MP over the so called orders to boost local industry over last 3 months. The industry particularly MSME folks have been crying hoarse over where are the orders to show such DAC approvals as well as so called so many AONs.

That's why for limited period of time he is in the hot seat, I am reacting harshly. Let's see what he does in rest of his tenure..

PS- I also said how he can reach higher score.

So if we cannot move fast on MII
that in effect means that the DUO of MMS and Antony
did more damage than what is attributed to them

I will explain ;
With the limited resources that he has got

Parrikar's first task is The operational capability and operational preparedness
Here too many things were stuck up in Red tape

Then comes investment in DRDO and taking forward their projects like what he did with LCA
Third increasing OFB production ; because there we have ready to use infrastructure

Fourth Utilising current offsets through the Pvt sector/ DRDO

and and lastly new green field MII through the private sector

MII involves a lot of hand holding and financial assistance
That is why it will take time

Now you divide the money that we get for MOD and see how things can be speeded up

People want everything to be done immediately ; for that we would need a 100 BN budget

That is why if we had created a non lapsable fund we would have been better off

In the defence sector ; people are expecting that

" Modi will make India a super power"

But for that you need money

Now if you go through the FISCAL hole that this Government inherited

you will find that there is very little fiscal room left

So MMS damaged the economy and hence Money is a PROBLEM for the current government

And Antony damaged MOD with his own ideas / his nature / his intentions/ his compulsions

At least you cannot fault the Modi government for Not Trying or Not wanting to do things

They are restricted ONLY by the funds available

The Previous govt had just abandoned both -- Indian economy and the Armed forces
TO looters and free loaders

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS : Now also add OROP ; Seventh Pay commision ; and Infrastructure projects of BRO
to the existing fiscal liabilities

 

[nair]

Totally one sided article.......... ( I am not an antony fan though)

 

[punit]

current one is no better .. despite all high energy maneuver and show of cleverness .. he is not actually going any where !!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Before i say anything, i want to raise one question: It looks like our system is person dependent (two gentlemen in debate). Does someone else too believe that it is our system that has failed and not the person? In other words, shouldn't the two governments be answerable to the mess our defence procurement establishment finds itself in?


Two distinct and equally independent things needs to be reviewed.

1. Please go back to late 80s, when Bofors scandal happened and that curse is still present on us. We forgot how to purchase a material from open market (embarrassing considering Indian's pride themselves as some of the shrewdest and most cunning customers). Every proposal of getting new hardware brought an automatic side order of noises that something is fishy. We started to treat business agents (middlemen) as Taboo. So apart from Sukhoi deal and a few minor deals here and there, we lost entire 90s, despite the fact that Indian economy improved leaps and bounds and opening of Indian economy brought a new qualitative change and advantage to diplomatic relationships as well.In a scenario where witch hunting after any proposal for CAPEX was moved, made it perhaps easier for DM to simply sit tight and take morally correct line (read as do little or nothing) and pass on the buck. We saw how badly this hit us, when Kargil happened in 99 and we found how woefully short we were even on some extremely basic fronts.
2. After 123 agreement, we found that now our choices have expanded and we can now start to move away from Russia at some points. Then arrived this new philosophy of Make in India and the possibility that hings can be made in India and you have people ready for it.

So far so good, but what is the reflection on ground? Yes there is movement but it is too slow and i don't know if that is in right direction. Thus far as we have seen, old ideology of direct purchase is now being rejected in favor of making ingenuously, but what about our actual preparedness!
Army can't fight or operate on promise that they'll get Indian made hardware. All they want is hardware and perhaps the last thing on a soldier's mind while in a fight is the origin tag on his gun or bullets.

Let us get ourselves in a comfortable position where a General doesn't have to think about his ammunition stock or an Air Marshal about the oil filter for hydraulic system of his fighters and concentrate on getting his operational preparedness ready and fine tune strategies. Let bureaucracy take care of their justified needs.
Let us know what we can do on our own and where we need to take help from outside.
& Above all let system be independent of ideology of government and Person sitting in chair of DM. I know it is a big ask but like certain aspects of foreign policies, let some aspects be, a line cast in Stone.


@PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @Joe Shearer @Abingdonboy @Levina @jbgt90 @hellfire

LOVED your post.

May I quibble a bit now? Correct those goddam spellings pl.; it's indigenously. And you can cast something in cement, or in concrete, but you have to cut it in stone. Why are you mucking up such an excellent post?

I think 5:00 and 5:01 is just troll level...no offence, give the man 5 years to finish his work. Within 10 years if his vision goes as planned then the forces will be in far far better shape with indigenous equipment, considering Army has been given the freedom in directly dealing with MSME and big businesses to convey their needs.

That's also fair, but @anant_s has raised an even more fundamental question. Please take a look.

I think 5:00 and 5:01 is just troll level...no offence, give the man 5 years to finish his work. Within 10 years if his vision goes as planned then the forces will be in far far better shape with indigenous equipment, considering Army has been given the freedom in directly dealing with MSME and big businesses to convey their needs.

However, please don't forget that the Armoured Corps behaved like ********s when they were actually given responsibility, several cycles earlier. Don't underestimate the destructive power of the commission agents. One of the very, very few things on which I support V. K. Singh.

 

[anant_s]

May I quibble a bit now? Correct those goddam spellings pl.; it's indigenously. And you can cast something in cement, or in concrete, but you have to cut it in stone. Why are you mucking up such an excellent post?

Sir, spellings, i was never good at but i too feel a bit embarrassed about second part. Guess it is never a good idea to eat your lunch and type on your cell phone at the same time!

++++

I've seen on a number of debates when somehow someone brings in this and previous governments together for sake of comparison. I'm not sure how many of people actually voted and for whom, but as voters, i suppose one must always be ready to critically examine the party he voted rather than comparing the one, he didn't.
My last comment on this topic.
Shouldn't we actually judge Mr. Parrikkar on what he is doing rather than What Mr. Anthony didn't.
For example current railways minister (perhaps to most silent and high performing member of cabinet) is letting his work do the talking. Today we see a qualitative change in way a railways are operating and that can be seen or felt by any common man. If he continues like this, people will even forget who the last RM was. This is how ministers must conduct themselves.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir, spellings, i was never good at but i too feel a bit embarrassed about second part. Guess it is never a good idea to eat your lunch and type on your cell phone at the same time!

BAD idea. But it remains a thrilling post! Gosh, left, right and left again!!

 

[Stephen Cohen]

INEPT is a very mild word for A K Antony

He ALSO created the Army promotions DIPSUTE where Army officers had to
Fight all the way upto Supreme Court

It was the Current Government who found the Solution by creating more vacancies
while retaining the Command and exit model so that there would be no resentment in the Amry

 

[911]

Thus far as we have seen, old ideology of direct purchase is now being rejected in favor of making indigenously, but what about our actual preparedness!

Necessity is the mother of invention, if there is no necessity......just saying. But you rightly pointed out about preparedness, there should be a balance. We are stuck at same spot, not only by cancelling the deals but also by not making enough efforts in indigenous research years after years. Afterall why do we buy arms.

 

[Grevion]

There is no accountability in the bureaucracy.
All they need to do is to have a defence minister or a service Chief to take the blame and they will stay incompetent forever.
Ultimately the men in the uniform suffers.
Anthony was an honest man but he lacked the instinct to take the hard decisions.
So is MP, all talks and no actual work except a few procurement deals maybe.

 

[utraash]

No wonder, entire khoongressi clans were just upto licking the boots of Maate operating from Janpath right from the accidental PM to peon in different mantralyas .... Government was not less then serious flattering joke for those who always bragged about Indian democracy... Behind the curtains India was being run by traitors, brokers, corrupt bureaucrats, political goons & the Maate .....

 

[utraash]

No wonder, entire khoongressi clans were just upto licking the boots of Maate operating from Janpath right from the accidental PM to peon in different mantralyas .... Government was not less then serious flattering joke for those who always bragged about Indian democracy... Behind the curtains India was being run by traitors, brokers, corrupt bureaucrats, political goons & the Maate .....

 

[MilSpec]

History will show A K Antony on a scale of 1-10 as 5 for keeping MOD clean and doing limited modernization

History will also show M Parrikar on a scale of 1-10 as 5.01 (yes a .01 better) for keeping MOD clean, saying we did lots of deals for modernization , signing no contracts and scrapping lots of tenders with no solution for urgent procurement /modernization. Also the loudmouth quips in media makes it difficult to take him seriously.

@Abingdonboy @anant_s

Although my view is 30000 feet, I disagree in essence of what you have written about Antony. Antony advocated and defended a culture of institutional inaction and spinelessness in the policy matters. He also developed this knack of appeasement of foreign partners which did not exist back in the early 2000's. A.K Antony's cleanliness was only limited to his office, but he cared little about AW, Kornet/konkurs, Recov Vehicles, Tatra, among quite a few. The harm he did to the MoD is barely visible to outsiders, but essentially an already entitled department was filled by him by looser and slackers. His dis-service to his post was more devastating than morale of the military cadre that he lowered in his term.
Fritter away national resource, my foot- I wish there was a singham - politician GPL scene done by Adm Joshi on him that day.

 

[Abingdonboy]

History will show A K Antony on a scale of 1-10 as 5 for keeping MOD clean and doing limited modernization

History will also show M Parrikar on a scale of 1-10 as 5.01 (yes a .01 better) for keeping MOD clean, saying we did lots of deals for modernization , signing no contracts and scrapping lots of tenders with no solution for urgent procurement /modernization. Also the loudmouth quips in media makes it difficult to take him seriously.

Unless Mr Parrikar does a course correction, there wont be much difference between him and A K Anthony.

A word of small praise: MP is trying surely but results matter a lot more in history then mere efforts. He can reach 7.5+ if he makes MII dreams true for our rapid modernization efforts. and a 9 if he can understand that potentially tehre are other areas outside IN, IA and IAF which needs attention too like tri services command, cyber warfare, integrated command for BMD/Airspace control etc.

@Abingdonboy @anant_s

The fact is Parrikar's sole accomplishment to date (worth mentioning) is the DPP-2016, this says it all really.

Parrikar has scope to turn it around but whether he will is another question. From where I stand it seems as though Parrikar's approach is simply to treat his position as a stepping stone to bigger and better things for himself, he is not putting his all into it as the Railways/Power/Roads/External ministers are doing.


+ @PARIKRAMA bro, I rate Anthony as far worse than average (5), he actively oversaw the de-fanging of India's military over the span of 10+ years. All the positives that happened uner him were inspite of him not because of him. He has blood on his hands as far as I am concerned.

 

[livingdead]

Sir, spellings, i was never good at but i too feel a bit embarrassed about second part. Guess it is never a good idea to eat your lunch and type on your cell phone at the same time!

++++

I've seen on a number of debates when somehow someone brings in this and previous governments together for sake of comparison. I'm not sure how many of people actually voted and for whom, but as voters, i suppose one must always be ready to critically examine the party he voted rather than comparing the one, he didn't.
My last comment on this topic.
Shouldn't we actually judge Mr. Parrikkar on what he is doing rather than What Mr. Anthony didn't.
For example current railways minister (perhaps to most silent and high performing member of cabinet) is letting his work do the talking. Today we see a qualitative change in way a railways are operating and that can be seen or felt by any common man. If he continues like this, people will even forget who the last RM was. This is how ministers must conduct themselves.

I am a fan of current railway minister... he is silent mostly but very much result oriented guy... unfortunately people dont like ministers who try to change system from inside, they just want a few announcements of more trains.. or some flagship scheme...