TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

that is a big plane.

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https://twitter.com/x/status/1672245102004060160

Yep, this photo really puts the Kaan into perspective. From a size standpoint at least, it seems pretty close to the F-22 -- easily a 32-ton MTOW, probably more. It makes sense seeing how Turkiye wanted a platform capable of carrying the TuAF's future strike needs.

 

[emotionless_teenage]

Yep, this photo really puts the Kaan into perspective. From a size standpoint at least, it seems pretty close to the F-22 -- easily a 32-ton MTOW, probably more. It makes sense seeing how Turkiye wanted a platform capable of carrying the TuAF's future strike needs.

You can probably guess from the engine used by TFX/Kaan as it uses the same engine as F-16 and 2 of them basically makes them in the F-15 category.

For comparison, KFX/KF-21 Boramae uses 2x F414 engines which means it was probably around the size of Super Hornet or Rafale

 

[That Guy]

Yep, this photo really puts the Kaan into perspective. From a size standpoint at least, it seems pretty close to the F-22 -- easily a 32-ton MTOW, probably more. It makes sense seeing how Turkiye wanted a platform capable of carrying the TuAF's future strike needs.

I'm still weirded out by the fact that PAF is interested in a twin engine behemoth as it's NGAD platform.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I'm still weirded out by the fact that PAF is interested in a twin engine behemoth as it's NGAD platform.

Pakistans "choices" for Stealth are limited to Chinese and Turkish options only - there is no real third option as even for KFX( putting indian influence aside ) - the Koreans will want "hard cash" upfront on commerical terms whereas Turkey may offered more relaxed financial terms as can China..

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I'm still weirded out by the fact that PAF is interested in a twin engine behemoth as it's NGAD platform.

Interestingly, this wasn't a new requirement, at least in terms of the intended role of this type of fighter. Since the 1970s, the PAF had always sought a new dedicated attack -- and later, strike -- asset, but it never panned out.

It first aimed for (and almost got) 114 A-7s, but the US didn't want to send it while Pakistan still had an active nuclear weapons project. Back then, the US fear was that the PAF would literally arm the A-7s with nuclear payloads, and the A-7 had cutting-edge gear at the time to enable guided deliveries. In fact, there may have been a concern that the PAF already had warheads (via the Chinese) and was just seeking a delivery platform @SQ8

In the early 1980s, it looked at the Jaguar, but it was too expensive and instead opted for the A-5. It then gave the M2K another look in the late 1980s, but the PAF preferred acquiring more F-16s (understandably so).

In the 1990s, the PAF looked at the M2K-5 and the Tornado. The latter was the perfect strike platform, but it was too specialized as the PAF now needed a new multi-role fighter in lieu of the F-16s. It picked the M2K-5, but couldn't close the deal to internal Pakistani turmoil at the time. IMO, a Tornado deal would've happened if the Peace Gate III/IV F-16s were delivered.

Basically, the PAF was amenable to a twin-engine fighter, especially for the strike role, provided one was actually available and affordable. Unlike the Tornado, the Kaan offers a multi-role capability, but I'd reckon the PAF will primarily use it for the strike role (assuming it succeeds in getting it).

The PAF's aiming for a 'next-gen' hi/lo mix consisting of the Kaan and J-10CE, with the JF-17B/Block-3 filling gaps and niche roles. Moreover, the availability of increasingly advanced drones, especially flying-wing UCAVs, may see the PAF reduce the number of manned fighters in the long-term too.

 

[Path-Finder]

Interestingly, this wasn't a new requirement, at least in terms of the intended role of this type of fighter. Since the 1970s, the PAF had always sought a new dedicated attack -- and later, strike -- asset, but it never panned out.

It first aimed for (and almost got) 114 A-7s, but the US didn't want to send it while Pakistan still had an active nuclear weapons project. Back then, the US fear was that the PAF would literally arm the A-7s with nuclear payloads, and the A-7 had cutting-edge gear at the time to enable guided deliveries. In fact, there may have been a concern that the PAF already had warheads (via the Chinese) and was just seeking a delivery platform @SQ8

In the early 1980s, it looked at the Jaguar, but it was too expensive and instead opted for the A-5. It then gave the M2K another look in the late 1980s, but the PAF preferred acquiring more F-16s (understandably so).

In the 1990s, the PAF looked at the M2K-5 and the Tornado. The latter was the perfect strike platform, but it was too specialized as the PAF now needed a new multi-role fighter in lieu of the F-16s. It picked the M2K-5, but couldn't close the deal to internal Pakistani turmoil at the time. IMO, a Tornado deal would've happened if the Peace Gate III/IV F-16s were delivered.

Basically, the PAF was amenable to a twin-engine fighter, especially for the strike role, provided one was actually available and affordable. Unlike the Tornado, the Kaan offers a multi-role capability, but I'd reckon the PAF will primarily use it for the strike role (assuming it succeeds in getting it).

The PAF's aiming for a 'next-gen' hi/lo mix consisting of the Kaan and J-10CE, with the JF-17B/Block-3 filling gaps and niche roles. Moreover, the availability of increasingly advanced drones, especially flying-wing UCAVs, may see the PAF reduce the number of manned fighters in the long-term too.

In the Irony of History. Would The saab Viggen have had a place in PAF?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

According to a former PAF Chief's public speech, their objective is to keep "intellectually" 5-10 years ahead of the Hindutva IAF.....

With the KAAN the PAF is clearing up the following potentials:

• A 6th gen flavor having an integration with jet-powered UAVs like KIZILELMA and ANKA-3
• Indigenous GaN based radar/EW systems
• Future growth potential as 10K+ young engineers are working on KAAN
• Possible usage of the Chinese WS-15 engines as alternatives coupled with their WVR/BVR packages
• Etc.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

In the Irony of History. Would The saab Viggen have had a place in PAF?

If we had respected the electoral mandate in 1971, I think so... a united Pakistan had way, way more funding at its disposal. E.g., the PAF had ordered 2/3 of its original Mirage III/5 batch pre-1971 and no net-new fighter acquisition through the 1970s otherwise.

Our racist and selfish establishment coached us into a lot of delusion, e.g., claiming the Bengalis were a liability, celebrating defeat and division, destroying our manufacturing base via 'nationalization,' and staffing our state-owned enterprises with non-qualified ethnic quota-fill.

They destroyed our ability to field a much stronger state in South Asia, one that could've encircled India. Instead, we fell into the defeatist thinking of "India dividing us" and not seeing the bigger picture. From there, they undid our fundamentals one piece at a time, scuttling our economy. Now we're at a point where we have to hear them tell us how they're providing defence for $6.9 bn instead of, I don't know, not reflecting on how they destroyed a state that could've provided a $69 billion defence budget.

 

[Celestyal]

Georgio Clementi: "A historic day at Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI). The first day of the first ever test pilot and flight test engineer course to be held in Türkiye. Twelve students from TAI, the Turkish Air Force, Directorate General Civil Aviation and ASELSAN commenced their journey to a career flight testing fixed wing civil and military aircraft, such as the Hurkus, Hurjet and TF-X National Fighter in the background. Turkish Flight Test Instructors Murat Ozpala and Emre Can Kaya joined the ITPS instructor team setting yet another first for this initiative. The course marks the launch of ITPS Türkiye, the satellite training organization of the International Test Pilots School (ITPS) under a partnership agreement with TAI. TAI is Türkiye's national aircraft manufacturer boasting a growing product line of advanced fixed and rotary wing aircraft. ITPS is the world's biggest independent school of flight testing, now operating two campuses, in Canada and Turkey."

 

[Kejo]

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Georgio Clementi: "A historic day at Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI). The first day of the first ever test pilot and flight test engineer course to be held in Türkiye. Twelve students from TAI, the Turkish Air Force, Directorate General Civil Aviation and ASELSAN commenced their journey to a career flight testing fixed wing civil and military aircraft, such as the Hurkus, Hurjet and TF-X National Fighter in the background. Turkish Flight Test Instructors Murat Ozpala and Emre Can Kaya joined the ITPS instructor team setting yet another first for this initiative. The course marks the launch of ITPS Türkiye, the satellite training organization of the International Test Pilots School (ITPS) under a partnership agreement with TAI. TAI is Türkiye's national aircraft manufacturer boasting a growing product line of advanced fixed and rotary wing aircraft. ITPS is the world's biggest independent school of flight testing, now operating two campuses, in Canada and Turkey."

Who is Georgio Clementi?

 

[hyperman]

Who is Georgio Clementi?

The guy who runs ITPS, the company Turkey hired to oversee its flight testing and test pilot training program.

 

[Celestyal]

-The aircraft is on jacks once more.

-They've taken out the ejection seat.

-The right main gear light seems to be illuminated.

-Good representation of how massive the forward fuselage is, and how flat the radome area seems to be on the upper side.

Via TVNET

 

[xbat]

i think this is the first aircraft whoever wants to see it ,can visit easly in factory. should i try my chance?

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi
is it possible for PAF or TUAF to integrate Ws15
in TFX/KaaN in case of USA refusal for export to
PAF what’s the approximate size of KaaN & J20
engine bays
of China agreed for export ws15 will that fit in
if anybody have a clue to answer my Q
thank you

 

[hyperman]

Hi
is it possible for PAF or TUAF to integrate Ws15
in TFX/KaaN in case of USA refusal for export to
PAF what’s the approximate size of KaaN & J20
engine bays
of China agreed for export ws15 will that fit in
if anybody have a clue to answer my Q
thank you

Is it theoretically possible? yes(in fact Ismael Demir mentioned there was an agreement with another country in case the F110 procurement had issues and there were rumors that country was China), it is an engine in the same class, but it will require integration and testing all over again, then certification, which will take a couple of years and time and money, its not in the plans right now, unless the situation changes and the F110 has issues with exports. The plan seems to be block 1 built with the F110, and then Block 2 built with a domestic engine in the 2030s.