TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Foinikas]

For prototype

So it won't be produced with an American engine. I mean,it can't be produced,it would need license,right?

 

[hyperman]

So it won't be produced with an American engine. I mean,it can't be produced,it would need license,right?

The prototype is using the same F110 that Turkey license produces at the TEI facility for the F-16s, the initial production batch is supposed to use the same engine. The second engine is supposed to be a dropin replacement of the same size as the F110 class of engines. There seems to be a two track development process for the second engine, with one proposal being to built it themselves, but it won't really be a next gen engine as it will be the same performance as the license built F110, the second proposal is codevelopment with Rolls Royce for a next gen engine like the F135, Rolls Royce currently is trying to develop an engine for the Tempest program of the same class(and they developed the F136 with GE for the F35 that ended up losing the bit to Pratt and Whitney) but there are intellectual property issues, that are still being negotiated over, b/c Turkey wants to be able to be able to independently export the engine, and Rolls Royce is a bit hesitant on that part, they are ok with license production but they still want input on its export, we don't know where the negotiations are at this point b/c we haven't gotten new news.

 

[BaybarsHan]

 

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653444924488941574

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653444924488941574

 

[Foinikas]

The prototype is using the same F110 that Turkey license produces at the TEI facility for the F-16s, the initial production batch is supposed to use the same engine.

Yeah,I thought it was the that one.

 

[merzifonlu]

Wrong! They are not same engines!

The engines to be used in Kaan are counter-rotation twin engines. They are produced in pairs. They are not exactly the same engines used in F-16s.

Therefore, either the USA will sell them directly to us, or a separate license agreement will be signed for their production at TEI. I read somewhere that our folks want to buy 50 pairs (10 pairs of spare engines) for the first 40 Kaan. "If you're not going to give F-16s, then give we 75 engines." they would say. (15 pairs of spare engines)

In my personal opinion, the USA will not give us twin-F110 engines for mass production. USA only gives 6 pairs for prototypes.

 

[Celestyal]

Are you MADDOG?

Hürjet on another flight. She is painted this time.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653455157898641440

 

[aziqbal]

they have validated the fight parameters already from the maiden flight

that was quick

seems like Turkish aviation has turned a new page and I am glad I have been following these projects

otherwise would have been too late to catch the party !

2023 really is the year for Turkey all the hard work from the last few years has given fruit

 

[LegionnairE]

It’s surprising Rolls Royce isn’t willing to budge to Turkish demands even though they are offering the same exact concessions to India that they have denied to Turkey.

You're assuming that it was rolls royce that killed it. But why would they first agree to work with us then pull back?

 

[Falcon26]

You're assuming that it was rolls royce that killed it. But why would they first agree to work with us then pull back?

What do you think could be the reason why Turkey would reject working with Rolls Royce?

 

[LegionnairE]

What do you think could be the reason why Turkey would reject working with Rolls Royce?

We must have done something that turned them off, whether poor project management, mistrust or disagreements over IP rights or maybe disagreements over who would contribute what...

or something else entirely... I don't know. These kind of joint projects are notorious for such problems and we aren't exactly easy to work with.

In the past we worked well with South Korea but they already had the things we wanted, in this case UK doesn't have a fifth generation fighter engine that is close to the diameter of F110 that provides 140-150 KN thrust that we would want. So this wasn't exactly Turkey outright buying a technology, it was joint development so it's a little bit fuzzy who contributes what and who gets what in the end.

I would speculate that maybe what happened is the same thing that happened when Turkey wanted a partnership in South Korea's KFX project. But it could be also that the change in UK government affected things.

 

[Edevelop]

Khan of Khans = Khagan = Kağan.

There is no such word as "Kaan" in Turkish. The correct spelling is Kağan.

Khagan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For a foreigner like me who understands and speaks some Turkish, even I was like the correct word must be Kağan and not "Kaan"

 

[hyperman]

What do you think could be the reason why Turkey would reject working with Rolls Royce?

I don't think its a rejection for either side, I think its disagreements over terms that each side sees as a necessity. My guess is the intellectual property issue. There hasn't been an official rejection, each side said they are continuing to consult/negotiate. I don't know where the negotiations are at, particularly with Japan's entry into the Tempest project, as well as Turkey potentially working with Ukraine from a report I read today.

Cooperation on KAAN jet plane engine from Türkiye and Ukraine!​

Ukraine and Turkey are collaborating for the engine in the National Combat Aircraft KAAN project.

Ukrainian Ambassador to Ankara Vasyl Bodnar was among the foreign representatives who participated in the “Century of the Future” promotional program held at TAI's facilities in Ankara. Making a statement after the event, Ambassador Bodnar said, “Turkey has taken its place among the world's leading aviation powers.” he used the phrase. Drawing attention to the defense industry cooperation between Turkey and Ukraine, Ambassador Bodnar drew attention to the cooperation in the AKINCI TİHA, ATAK-2 and ANKA-3 projects. In addition, in the Bayraktar KIZILELMA project, cooperation is made with Ukraine on engines. The Ambassador also announced that they cooperated in the National Combat Aircraft KAAN project. According to the information obtained by Defense Turk, the scope of the cooperation in question is similar to the cooperation in other projects. The details of the cooperation with Ukraine for the engine of the KAAN jet aircraft are not known.

Türkiye ile Ukrayna'dan KAAN jet uçağı motorunda iş birliği!

Ukrayna ile Türkiye, Milli Muharip Uçak KAAN projesinde motor için iş birliği yapıyor.

www.defenceturk.net

 

[Falcon26]

I don't think its a rejection for either side, I think its disagreements over terms that each side sees as a necessity. My guess is the intellectual property issue. There hasn't been an official rejection, each side said they are continuing to consult/negotiate. I don't know where the negotiations are at, particularly with Japan's entry into the Tempest project, as well as Turkey potentially working with Ukraine from a report I read today.

Cooperation on KAAN jet plane engine from Türkiye and Ukraine!​

Ukraine and Turkey are collaborating for the engine in the National Combat Aircraft KAAN project.

Ukrainian Ambassador to Ankara Vasyl Bodnar was among the foreign representatives who participated in the “Century of the Future” promotional program held at TAI's facilities in Ankara. Making a statement after the event, Ambassador Bodnar said, “Turkey has taken its place among the world's leading aviation powers.” he used the phrase. Drawing attention to the defense industry cooperation between Turkey and Ukraine, Ambassador Bodnar drew attention to the cooperation in the AKINCI TİHA, ATAK-2 and ANKA-3 projects. In addition, in the Bayraktar KIZILELMA project, cooperation is made with Ukraine on engines. The Ambassador also announced that they cooperated in the National Combat Aircraft KAAN project. According to the information obtained by Defense Turk, the scope of the cooperation in question is similar to the cooperation in other projects. The details of the cooperation with Ukraine for the engine of the KAAN jet aircraft are not known.

Türkiye ile Ukrayna'dan KAAN jet uçağı motorunda iş birliği!

Ukrayna ile Türkiye, Milli Muharip Uçak KAAN projesinde motor için iş birliği yapıyor.

www.defenceturk.net

Thanks for sharing this. I think it’s pretty unlikely Ukraine will have the necessary know how for a 5th generation fighter engine.

 

[hyperman]

Thanks for sharing this. I think it’s pretty unlikely Ukraine will the necessary know how for a 5th generation fighter engine.

Yeah I'm not really sure if the report is accurate, we didn't hear it from an official Turkish source, and the report seems to be very vague.