TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Foinikas]

We aren't talking about leclerc and T-72 anymore.

We're still talking about them,because the Armata hasn't proved itself and the KF-51 is still not in mass production

Actually...neither is the Armata. Just a few examples were made and that's it.

 

[LegionnairE]

We're still talking about them,because the Armata hasn't proved itself and the KF-51 is still not in mass production

Actually...neither is the Armata. Just a few examples were made and that's it.

More important than the production numbers is the idea. T-14 Armata put the idea of a main battle tank with an unmanned turret out there. Just like how F-22 defined the 5. generation fighter T-14 defined the next generation tank.

Although F-22 was produced in so small numbers, we're seeing its impact everywhere even in TFX, same will be true of T-14 and KF-51

Some countries are very slow to adapt.

While Turks and Greeks were discussing Panzerhaubitze and T155 Fırtına, Americans were stuck with 39 caliber M109s. While we're discussing the Rheinmetall 130mm, Americans still have L44 guns on the Abrams. The journey might take a long time, but the direction is clear and we're all heading there.

 

[Sapei]

Google says it is a drone. So no self developed fighter-Jet in Turkey that has flown?

Edit:

Ah, i just see: The drone do not have self produced engines, so it counts double-not.

Ukraine continues to deliver engines for Turkey’s Kizilelma stealth drone - AeroTime

Ukraine is continuing to supply engines for the Bayraktar Kizilelma, Turkey’s upcoming stealth drone. The drone has been marketed by Baykar as an “unmanned fighter jet”. Despite the war, cooperation between the two countries has continued, Baykar’ CTO Selcuk Bayraktar said at the Teknofest 2022...

www.aerotime.aero

1. You did not specify that the fighter jet needs to be manned, KE is considered the first unmanned fighter jet

2. By your retarded logic, Airbus and Boeing has never developed an aircraft because they are sourcing the engines from suppliers.

 

[Ich]

1. You did not specify that the fighter jet needs to be manned, KE is considered the first unmanned fighter jet

A drone is a drone.

2. By your retarded logic, Airbus and Boeing has never developed an aircraft because they are sourcing the engines from suppliers.

By your retarded logic airbus or boeing is a country?

 

[Beny Karachun]

T-14 Armata caused a paradigm shift in tank design, Rheinmetall 130mm gun designed defeat T-14's armor can't be loaded by a human and T-14s unmanned turret offers a bunch of advantages. Suddenly you an make a very well protected tank without going up to 70-80 tons.

Although Americans keep upgrading the Abrams and KMW keeps upgrading the Leopard 2, the future is T-14 and KF-51 derivatives.

We aren't talking about leclerc and T-72 anymore.

T-14's turret is extremely unprotected. You can mission kill an Armata with a single 30mm cannon shell to the turret, without aiming for specific parts.

Older tanks can do the same with ease as well. A 130mm cannon might be needed to reliably take out the crew in the hull with one shot from the front from far away. But to mission kill an Armata? You don't need a KF51.

 

[LegionnairE]

T-14's turret is extremely unprotected. You can mission kill an Armata with a single 30mm cannon shell to the turret, without aiming for specific parts.

Older tanks can do the same with ease as well. A 130mm cannon might be needed to reliably take out the crew in the hull with one shot from the front from far away. But to mission kill an Armata? You don't need a KF51.

Protection up to 30mm cannonfire actually isn't bad, many countries, including the US and Turkey still mainly use 25mm guns on IFVs, it's alright. It can be upgraded in the future variants, we'll see how Russia proceeds after the war. What's important is that the tank will survive an ATGM hit. Javelin/NLAW will probably land on the turret and the crew capsule will be safe. It's a great system.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Protection up to 30mm cannonfire actually isn't bad, many countries, including the US and Turkey still mainly use 25mm guns on IFVs, it's alright. It can be upgraded in the future variants, we'll see how Russia proceeds after the war. What's important is that the tank will survive an ATGM hit. Javelin/NLAW will probably land on the turret and the crew capsule will be safe. It's a great system.

25mm APDS shells might also do damage, I'm not sure though. But this isn't the point, I am not deluded enough to think IFVs would try to pick fights with Armatas. I am saying that older tanks could easily mission kill an Armata, even with older 105mm cannons.

As long as NLAW/Javelin doesn't hit above the crew capsule they'll be safe with such a design. Missiles like Spike/Akernop/UTMAS could specifically target that area, which is lightly protected, and take out the crew.

A tank with no hard kill APS is a huge waste of money and blood. Armies must invest into purchasing such systems, even if it means 20 percent more money. I'd rather have 4 tanks with APS than 5 tanks without.

 

[Path-Finder]

Damn Hurjet has the LCA Teja look at the front end.

 

[LegionnairE]

25mm APDS shells might also do damage, I'm not sure though. But this isn't the point, I am not deluded enough to think IFVs would try to pick fights with Armatas. I am saying that older tanks could easily mission kill an Armata, even with older 105mm cannons.

As long as NLAW/Javelin doesn't hit above the crew capsule they'll be safe with such a design. Missiles like Spike/Akernop/UTMAS could specifically target that area, which is lightly protected, and take out the crew.

A tank with no hard kill APS is a huge waste of money and blood. Armies must invest into purchasing such systems, even if it means 20 percent more money. I'd rather have 4 tanks with APS than 5 tanks without.

upwards of 105mm can mission kill any tank, don't be fooled by numbers on paper. There's a massive amount of energy in a tank shell. But anyway, this is a moot point. I'm not saying we shouldn't put any armor on unmanned turrets. And the thread is about TFX

 

[xbat]

Has Turkey any self developed fighter-Jet that has fly?

What a question! that implies Turkey uses foreign originated parts but IRAN does not. i know you are a nice guy but whenever i discuss this topic with indoctrinated brain dead persian zombies they say same scit to me.. wake up man we are at the champions league now but iran is not!

-iran makes seageh, azarakesh bla bla all of them is an american F5 and uses american design j85, producing them in iran doesnt make them iranian fighter. iran changed f5 design make it double vertical stabilizer version but later they changed their mind and made original types again. why? because they dont have enough know how, thats it. they made f313 for propaganda purposes we still wait for to fly after a decade. another iranian bs is local production, even if we consider j85 production rate we can say you guys import some parts of it. if Turkey doesnt care patent issues we can make F110 at home easily, but that zombies think they are superior than us at this subject, there is no single jet engine in iran designed by iranians(afaik), all of them unlicensed copies of french, american etc. engines, they are still imports jet engines to power their gadgets even little ones like 358 missiles(netherland made turbojet)

-they make yasin jet (which looks 50's era junks) and proud of it , they say it costs 6 million USD, they proud of with it is price too! Our Hurjet budget 750 million USD may be more. they think their chit better than everyone elses. They had tsarv jet 20-25 years ago it crushed a couple times and project cancelled. i see same destiny for yasin. another great iranian aircraft project was IRAN160 which is licensed ukrainian plane, after a couple persian touches to the plane, it crushed a couple times and resulted many deads. after years they reactivated ıran160 project but this time as a cargo plane, we will see the results.

-iran smuggles many things and we provide info some of them in this forum but the zombies insist on rejecting. i dont care it , but if we discuss the matters i wanna see a man at the other side.
if they make something it becames most advanced one in the world automatically , they copied oto malera 76 mm they said this, they copied american rq170 they said same thing and many more.
another bullscit is serial production, we saw khayber 2020 , 15 years ago , they claimed it is in serial production, where is it? we never see it again. same thing for their tanks(all of them versions of foreign tanks) , where are those?


-there was another zombie who claimed turkey will never have unmanned UAVs for decades.... we flew first unmanned fighter jet last year and iranian little toys are already became pussycat ...... anyway iranians under this regime lost their healty way of thinking, there is world who is free , with or without iran

so world is mocking with iran,

 

[Foinikas]

More important than the production numbers is the idea. T-14 Armata put the idea of a main battle tank with an unmanned turret out there. Just like how F-22 defined the 5. generation fighter T-14 defined the next generation tank.

But the problem is...a lot of modern Soviet equipment turned out to be subpar! I was excited when the Armata came out,but...

upwards of 105mm can mission kill any tank, don't be fooled by numbers on paper. There's a massive amount of energy in a tank shell. But anyway, this is a moot point. I'm not saying we shouldn't put any armor on unmanned turrets. And the thread is about TFX

Just like Soviet massive guns against German tanks in WWII.

 

[Beny Karachun]

upwards of 105mm can mission kill any tank, don't be fooled by numbers on paper. There's a massive amount of energy in a tank shell. But anyway, this is a moot point. I'm not saying we shouldn't put any armor on unmanned turrets. And the thread is about TFX

It's true, but for example, if a 105mm tank shell hits the turret of an Abrams/Leopard/Merkava, it would most likely not penetrate. If a 105mm tank shell hit anywhere on turret of the Armata from any angle, it would easily penetrate and make the Armata go out of action.

I would conclude it this way:
Armata is easy to take out of action but hard to take out the crew.
Western tanks are way harder to take out of action, but if it happens, that means the crew is likely hurt.
Merkava is kind of a mix between the two, I'd say the best of both worlds.

 

[LegionnairE]

What a question! that implies Turkey uses foreign originated parts but IRAN does not. i know you are a nice guy but whenever i discuss this topic with indoctrinated brain dead persian zombies they say same scit to me.. wake up man we are at the champions league now but iran is not!

-iran makes seageh, azarakesh bla bla all of them is an american F5 and uses american design j85, producing them in iran doesnt make them iranian fighter. iran changed f5 design make it double vertical stabilizer version but later they changed their mind and made original types again. why? because they dont have enough know how, thats it. they made f313 for propaganda purposes we still wait for to fly after a decade. another iranian bs is local production, even if we consider j85 production rate we can say you guys import some parts of it. if Turkey doesnt care patent issues we can make F110 at home easily, but that zombies think they are superior than us at this subject, there is no single jet engine in iran designed by iranians(afaik), all of them unlicensed copies of french, american etc. engines, they are still imports jet engines to power their gadgets even little ones like 358 missiles(netherland made turbojet)

-they make yasin jet (which looks 50's era junks) and proud of it , they say it costs 6 million USD, they proud of with it is price too! Our Hurjet budget 750 million USD may be more. they think their chit better than everyone elses. They had tsarv jet 20-25 years ago it crushed a couple times and project cancelled. i see same destiny for yasin. another great iranian aircraft project was IRAN160 which is licensed ukrainian plane, after a couple persian touches to the plane, it crushed a couple times and resulted many deads. after years they reactivated ıran160 project but this time as a cargo plane, we will see the results.

-iran smuggles many things and we provide info some of them in this forum but the zombies insist on rejecting. i dont care it , but if we discuss the matters i wanna see a man at the other side.
if they make something it becames most advanced one in the world automatically , they copied oto malera 76 mm they said this, they copied american rq170 they said same thing and many more.
another bullscit is serial production, we saw khayber 2020 , 15 years ago , they claimed it is in serial production, where is it? we never see it again. same thing for their tanks(all of them versions of foreign tanks) , where are those?


-there was another zombie who claimed turkey will never have unmanned UAVs for decades.... we flew first unmanned fighter jet last year and iranian little toys are already became pussycat ...... anyway iranians under this regime lost their healty way of thinking, there is world who is free , with or without iran

so world is mocking with iran,

If we wanted F-5s, we would just take them out of the junkyard where we put them 40 years ago... lol

it's like someone really really proud of making blackpowder muskets... good for you but we've kind of moved on from that point

Even Hürjet's fighter version is doubtful to be made. We might get EFs or F35s before we get to that point.

 

[Ich]

What a question! that implies Turkey uses foreign originated parts but IRAN does not. i know you are a nice guy but whenever i discuss this topic with indoctrinated brain dead persian zombies they say same scit to me.. wake up man we are at the champions league now but iran is not!

-iran makes seageh, azarakesh bla bla all of them is an american F5 and uses american design j85, producing them in iran doesnt make them iranian fighter. iran changed f5 design make it double vertical stabilizer version but later they changed their mind and made original types again. why? because they dont have enough know how, thats it. they made f313 for propaganda purposes we still wait for to fly after a decade. another iranian bs is local production, even if we consider j85 production rate we can say you guys import some parts of it. if Turkey doesnt care patent issues we can make F110 at home easily, but that zombies think they are superior than us at this subject, there is no single jet engine in iran designed by iranians(afaik), all of them unlicensed copies of french, american etc. engines, they are still imports jet engines to power their gadgets even little ones like 358 missiles(netherland made turbojet)

-they make yasin jet (which looks 50's era junks) and proud of it , they say it costs 6 million USD, they proud of with it is price too! Our Hurjet budget 750 million USD may be more. they think their chit better than everyone elses. They had tsarv jet 20-25 years ago it crushed a couple times and project cancelled. i see same destiny for yasin. another great iranian aircraft project was IRAN160 which is licensed ukrainian plane, after a couple persian touches to the plane, it crushed a couple times and resulted many deads. after years they reactivated ıran160 project but this time as a cargo plane, we will see the results.

-iran smuggles many things and we provide info some of them in this forum but the zombies insist on rejecting. i dont care it , but if we discuss the matters i wanna see a man at the other side.
if they make something it becames most advanced one in the world automatically , they copied oto malera 76 mm they said this, they copied american rq170 they said same thing and many more.
another bullscit is serial production, we saw khayber 2020 , 15 years ago , they claimed it is in serial production, where is it? we never see it again. same thing for their tanks(all of them versions of foreign tanks) , where are those?


-there was another zombie who claimed turkey will never have unmanned UAVs for decades.... we flew first unmanned fighter jet last year and iranian little toys are already became pussycat ...... anyway iranians under this regime lost their healty way of thinking, there is world who is free , with or without iran

so world is mocking with iran,

Well, the difference is: Iran take e.g. F5 as a testbed and make it in all things better, including the engine. After that, Iran developed own turbofan. After that Iran developed own trainer jet. And that are things Turkey hasnt and thus has no knowledge how to do it or even develop/produce next better and next better cause not even made the first steps, only buy things.

-iran smuggles many things and we provide info some of them in this forum but the zombies insist on rejecting. i dont care it , but if we discuss the matters i wanna see a man at the other side.
if they make something it becames most advanced one in the world automatically , they copied oto malera 76 mm they said this, they copied american rq170 they said same thing and many more.
another bullscit is serial production, we saw khayber 2020 , 15 years ago , they claimed it is in serial production, where is it? we never see it again. same thing for their tanks(all of them versions of foreign tanks) , where are those?

The same here: Iran build this all self and mostly developed better versions of. And use it all. Turkey not. There were vids at the time when was tension between Arm-Az where Iran sends troops to the border. I this vids you can see the tanks made by Iran. All parts developed and produced in Iran. Where is the self developed and self produced turkish tank? There is none cause also here Turkey buy parts for them cause they self hasnt developed or produced them self. Look here who develop and produce the parts for your tank

Altay (tank) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And so on and so on.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Well, the difference is: Iran take e.g. F5 as a testbed and make it in all things better, including the engine. After that, Iran developed own turbofan. After that Iran developed own trainer jet. And that are things Turkey hasnt and thus has no knowledge how to do it or even develop/produce next better and next better cause not even made the first steps, only buy things.



The same here: Iran build this all self and mostly developed better versions of. And use it all. Turkey not. There were vids at the time when was tension between Arm-Az where Iran sends troops to the border. I this vids you can see the tanks made by Iran. All parts developed and produced in Iran. Where is the self developed and self produced turkish tank? There is none cause also here Turkey buy parts for them cause they self hasnt developed or produced them self. Look here who develop and produce the parts for your tank

Altay (tank) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And so on and so on.

come on man, dont talk about Iran that we dont know and live somewhere in American continent. just last week Taliban was beating iranian border soldier and where were your tanks? )
Iran simply try to ue Chinese by product to overcome ambargo and try to build something, however Turkey try o sell the product thats why it need to produce everything. just imagine that officially the only things isare used foreign in TFX fighter are the engine (f110-which Turkey has huge experience and produce many parts) and safe seat ejection system for Pilot which Turkey working on. How about Iran? )