TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[CrimsonFury]

General Directorate of Security? WTF? After UCAVs and T-129 now cops are getting C-27J Spartan military transport aircraft?

I think with these procurement items (if true) a second security establishment will be established, something like a Republican Guard. If structured and indoctrinated correctly such forces would actually help the country.

 

[OguzSenturk]

http://www.kokpit.aero/tsk-cok-amacli-nakliyucagi

Probably its about this project.

 

[xenon54 out]

I think with these procurement items (if true) a second security establishment will be established, something like a Republican Guard. If structured and indoctrinated correctly such forces would actually help the country.

If that happens then the only thing they would protect is the one whose name shall not be spoken.

 

[Neptune]

I think with these procurement items (if true) a second security establishment will be established, something like a Republican Guard. If structured and indoctrinated correctly such forces would actually help the country.

I would kindly disagree. I found the tender however SSM's site on the project is unavailable. It is said to be called "Liaison and General Utility Aircraft Project" dubbed as GMU. End users are listed as the Land Forces Command and General Directorate of Security. It is understandable that EGM, unlike many law enforcement agencies in ME and Europe, is a centrally nationalized and militarized institution due to our country's natural security requirements. But just because of silly reasons such as supply and personnel transport, I think it is very absurd to field such platforms.
Respectfully, I also believe that names such as "republican guard, etc." seem to be a Middle East fabricated fanatical terms to form regime bodyguards. I think strengthening our existing Gendarmerie and Police forces, whom are proven to be brave and loyal to the state, in terms of training, equipment and organization would be the single requirement for reinforcing our country's domestic security. Armed Forces and Intelligence is a whole other topic to discuss.

Here's the news source: http://www.milscint.com/tr/c-27j-turkiyeye-hizmete-hazir-3/

Kara Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı ve Emniyet Genel Müdürlüğünün hafif nakliye uçağı ihtiyacı kapsamında, Savunma Sanayii Müsteşarlığı (SSM) tarafından yürütülmekte olan ihalede yarışan uçaklardan biri olan C-27J, Leonardo’nun, 23 Kasım’da, İtalyan Hava Kuvvetlerinin Pisa Hava Üssü’nde düzenlediği basın turu ile tanıtıldı. İtalyan Hava Kuvvetleri, etkinlik kapsamında, safkan bir taktik nakliye uçağı olan C-27J’nin kabiliyetlerini, birinci ağızdan anlattı.

 

[kartal1]

If that happens then the only thing they would protect is the one whose name shall not be spoken.

Under the umbrella of the Ministry of Interior Affairs they are trying to make a Turkish soft version of IRGC. Because the EGM was not enough for that they transferred the command of the Gendarmerie General Command under the Ministry of Interior Affairs in order to be controlled by the government if "something happens". In normal environment it is logical and more practical to have the Gendarmerie under the MIA but we all know that in Turkey the situation is not like in the other countries and I find that move concerning under these circumstances. Some people says "Why are you so sceptical about that? Our police will become strong!" Yes it will become stronger but what is the meaning of all that when you have Armed Forces and Gendarmerie that are doing the work?

 

[HannibalBarca]

Under the umbrella of the Ministry of Interior Affairs they are trying to make a Turkish soft version of IRGC. Because the EGM was not enough for that they transferred the command of the Gendarmerie General Command under the Ministry of Interior Affairs in order to be controlled by the government if "something happens". In normal environment it is logical and more practical to have the Gendarmerie under the MIA but we all know that in Turkey the situation is not like in the other countries and I find that move concerning under these circumstances. Some people says "Why are you so sceptical about that? Our police will become strong!" Yes it will become stronger but what is the meaning of all that when you have Armed Forces and Gendarmerie that are doing the work?

Gendarmerie "militarization" is a counter power against other "Armed Entity aka Army"
Therefore any "Wrong" move from each one of them... could be countered by each other... An Insurance policy.

Regime around the region,Used another tactic, they Chosed one of them and deleted the other... Quite interesting move for Turkey... this "tactic" will remove the power "Symbol" from the equation... While other regime/Administration put their Leaders at the "Center" of that equation...

If the Gendarmerie "reshaping" do continue... Erdogan is a safe man...whatever may happen...
But that also mean, more Figure of power will arise from those different "Armed Entities"... if the Political arena became unstable... and therefore "could" act on their own free will...

Interesting and Dangerous move...

 

[kartal1]

Gendarmerie "militarization" is a counter power against other "Armed Entity aka Army"
Therefore any "Wrong" move from each one of them... could be countered by each other... An Insurance policy.

Regime around the region,Used another tactic, they Chosed one of them and deleted the other... Quite interesting move for Turkey... this "tactic" will remove the power "Symbol" from the equation... While other regime/Administration put their Leaders at the "Center" of that equation...

If the Gendarmerie "reshaping" do continue... Erdogan is a safe man...whatever may happen...
But that also mean, more Figure of power will arise from those different "Armed Entities"... if the Political arena became unstable... and therefore "could" act on their own free will...

Interesting and Dangerous move...

I understand it that way. The General Staff with the Force Commanders (Land, Sea, Air) were connected to the Ministry of Defense when the country is at peace but they took out the word "at peace" and that means that under any circumstances the General Staff and the Force Commands are under the "command" of the Ministry of Defense. Their reforms included reforming of the Supreme Military Council by excluding the Gendarmerie General Commander, Navy Commander, Army Commanders and the generals and admirals that are connected to them. At the moment the members of the Supreme Military Council are only the Prime Minister, General Staff Commander, Prime Minister advisors, Minister of Justice,
Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Internal Affairs, Minister of Defense, Force Commanders (Land Forces Commander, Sea Forces Commander, Air Forces Commander).
Also the functions of the secretary are taken from the 2nd General Staff Commander by the Ministry of Defense. Not only Gendarmerie but also the Coast Guard Command was transferred to the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

The command of the military hospital GATA was given to the Ministry of Health. The military schools and the schools that were preparing junior officer candidates were closed and the authority of the Military Academies was given to the National Defense University under the Ministry of Defense.

The Supreme Military Commander presenting
the Turkish Grand National Assembly is the President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

They are enlarging the number of Police Special Operations personnel by decreasing the minimal age to 18 years old, excluding the condition for completed military service and decreasing the time of the training program. In 2016 according to sources the Police Special Operations had 7.800 personnel, in 2017 should have at least 17.000 personnel and the number is rising in 2018. The Gendarmerie Special Operations personnel stayed at about the same numbers and I am not sure about 2018. The result is close to 40.000 special forces that are special trained and even have elite teams (JOPER) under the command of the Gendarmerie Public Safety Command that are very very professional and highly trained under harsh environment with very high tactical competence and capability of conducting military grade special operations from air, land and sea. We don't count all the Gendarmerie Commando brigades.

I see that system as 3 point assurance program:

1st. Take the command of the General Staff under the Ministry of Defense.

2nd. If that Do not work you have the combined force of the Gendarmerie General Command,
Coast Guard Command and the General Directorate of Security (Police)

3rd. If Gendarmerie and/or Coast Guard by some reason do not obey to the Ministry of Internal Affairs you have the Police that have enough personnel and units that are capable to conduct military grade operations and also have Sea Police forces to try to imply some kind of control over the waters. You have also attack helicopter fleet under the police forces that can give air support to the forces aligned to you if the Gendarmerie is not available with its fleet and around 200.000 personnel.

I am sure that some people will be angry when they see this post but that is the situation and also that is my interpretation of the situation.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I understand it that way. The General Staff with the Force Commanders (Land, Sea, Air) were connected to the Ministry of Defense when the country is at peace but they took out the word "at peace" and that means that under any circumstances the General Staff and the Force Commands are under the "command" of the Ministry of Defense. Their reforms included reforming of the Supreme Military Council by excluding the Gendarmerie General Commander, Navy Commander, Army Commanders and the generals and admirals that are connected to them. At the moment the members of the Supreme Military Council are only the Prime Minister, General Staff Commander, Prime Minister advisors, Minister of Justice,
Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Internal Affairs, Minister of Defense, Force Commanders (Land Forces Commander, Sea Forces Commander, Air Forces Commander).
Also the functions of the secretary are taken from the 2nd General Staff Commander by the Ministry of Defense. Not only Gendarmerie but also the Coast Guard Command was transferred to the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

The command of the military hospital GATA was given to the Ministry of Health. The military schools and the schools that were preparing junior officer candidates were closed and the authority of the Military Academies was given to the National Defense University under the Ministry of Defense.

The Supreme Military Commander presenting
the Turkish Grand National Assembly is the President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

They are enlarging the number of Police Special Operations personnel by decreasing the minimal age to 18 years old, excluding the condition for completed military service and decreasing the time of the training program. In 2016 according to sources the Police Special Operations had 7.800 personnel, in 2017 should have at least 17.000 personnel and the number is rising in 2018. The Gendarmerie Special Operations personnel stayed at about the same numbers and I am not sure about 2018. The result is close to 40.000 special forces that are special trained and even have elite teams (JOPER) under the command of the Gendarmerie Public Safety Command that are very very professional and highly trained under harsh environment with very high tactical competence and capability of conducting military grade special operations from air, land and sea. We don't count all the Gendarmerie Commando brigades.

I see that system as 3 point assurance program:

1st. Take the command of the General Staff under the Ministry of Defense.

2nd. If that Do not work you have the combined force of the Gendarmerie General Command,
Coast Guard Command and the General Directorate of Security (Police)

3rd. If Gendarmerie and/or Coast Guard by some reason do not obey to the Ministry of Internal Affairs you have the Police that have enough personnel and units that are capable to conduct military grade operations and also have Sea Police forces to try to imply some kind of control over the waters. You have also attack helicopter fleet under the police forces that can give air support to the forces aligned to you if the Gendarmerie is not available with its fleet and around 200.000 personnel.

I am sure that some people will be angry when they see this post but that is the situation and also that is my interpretation of the situation.

It's a part of Today reality...
But the transformation is still in motion, Gendarmerie and Police are still way being any "Significant Power" yet...( Compared to the main armed entity)
But as things are going... The country is trying to build "Armies"...One of the main problem is "What types of guys will rise at those respective Entities and what will be their Vision for the future."

And then you have to think of the "Post-Erdogan"... What will happen to the Empire when the Emperor/King die? What will the Generals do? fight for a piece of it? Fight each others? etc...
(If Power Figures in each entities do arise)

 

[kartal1]

It's a part of Today reality...
But the transformation is still in motion, Gendarmerie and Police are still way being any "Significant Power" yet...( Compared to the main armed entity)
But as things are going... The country is trying to build "Armies"...One of the main problem is "What types of guys will rise at those respective Entities and what will be their Vision for the future."

And then you have to think of the "Post-Erdogan"... What will happen to the Empire when the Emperor/King die? What will the Generals do? fight for a piece of it? Fight each others? etc...
(If Power Figures in each entities do arise)

Thank god its like that I can't imagine otherwise because it will be clear disrespect to structure of national security We will see how the situation will go on and I don't believe that they have the balls to wage an open war to the military. They can only try but the results will for sure not be positive but indeed destructive. The only reasons why the military elite is not doing anything openly and by force is because there is strategic plan for the developing of the country, the country is fragmented on different entities and the chance for civil war is high but that do not mean they don't use soft methods of pressure... not everything is coming on the news. I can assure that nothing in this country happens without the knowledge of the military elite and their friends and allies. May Allah help Turkey.

 

[CrimsonFury]

I would kindly disagree. I found the tender however SSM's site on the project is unavailable. It is said to be called "Liaison and General Utility Aircraft Project" dubbed as GMU. End users are listed as the Land Forces Command and General Directorate of Security. It is understandable that EGM, unlike many law enforcement agencies in ME and Europe, is a centrally nationalized and militarized institution due to our country's natural security requirements. But just because of silly reasons such as supply and personnel transport, I think it is very absurd to field such platforms.
Respectfully, I also believe that names such as "republican guard, etc." seem to be a Middle East fabricated fanatical terms to form regime bodyguards. I think strengthening our existing Gendarmerie and Police forces, whom are proven to be brave and loyal to the state, in terms of training, equipment and organization would be the single requirement for reinforcing our country's domestic security. Armed Forces and Intelligence is a whole other topic to discuss.

Here's the news source: http://www.milscint.com/tr/c-27j-turkiyeye-hizmete-hazir-3/

I agree with most of your points. But as you pointed out before, cops flying around in military transport carriers ? Come on. Then maybe another solution is creating a unit within the EGM that'll serve as the Gendarmerie but for urban ops (like POH but on steroids).

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/x/status/989059063580450821

legit?

 

[CAN_TR]

https://twitter.com/x/status/989059063580450821

legit?

~27.000 kg MTOW is the TF-X pretty light if you compare it with the SU-57, J-20 and F-22.
And with 2x27.000 thrust it has a really powerful engine for it's weight.

 

[azyr]

~27.000 kg MTOW is the TF-X pretty light if you compare it with the SU-57, J-20 and F-22.
And with 2x27.000 thrust it has a really powerful engine for it's weight.

There are 2 figures shown though, so maybe the 27k number is for the prototypes and the plane will gain another 4k at production?

 

[CAN_TR]

https://twitter.com/x/status/989477940617412609

 

[Killuminati]

https://twitter.com/x/status/989477940617412609

O gunler yaklasiyor ATAM!!