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Tesla No Longer Even A Growth Company; Going Bankrupt: Shortseller

Not knocking Tesla.

FOMO or fear of missing out is pushing Tesla higher. Same happened with crypto currency.

Eventually price will peak and people who bought last will make losses. However we cannot predict its peak price. Lets play musical chairs.
 
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Not knocking Tesla.

FOMO or fear of missing out is pushing Tesla higher. Same happened with crypto currency.

Eventually price will peak and people who bought last will make losses. However we cannot predict its peak price. Lets play musical chairs.


People invested long term won’t. If Tesla were to drop 50% tomorrow, I’d buy more shares. 2k by Battery Day seems reasonable. Giga Berlin and Giga Texas to begin production next year. Tesla is at the beginning stages of their massive growth.
 
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People invested long term won’t. If Tesla were to drop 50% tomorrow, I’d buy more shares. 2k by Battery Day seems reasonable. Giga Berlin and Giga Texas to begin production next year. Tesla is at the beginning stages of their massive growth.
Not knocking Tesla.

FOMO or fear of missing out is pushing Tesla higher. Same happened with crypto currency.

Eventually price will peak and people who bought last will make losses. However we cannot predict its peak price. Lets play musical chairs.

Got out of Tesla @1323$/ share, thinking that it may go down and it went up and closed over 1400$ :cry:
 
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People invested long term won’t. If Tesla were to drop 50% tomorrow, I’d buy more shares. 2k by Battery Day seems reasonable. Giga Berlin and Giga Texas to begin production next year. Tesla is at the beginning stages of their massive growth.

You have a motivate in convincing people to invest. More investors the greater returns for you. I am not doubting Tesla, it has made electric cars a mainstream product.
 
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These buffoons think their cheap chinese copy products are a match for TSLA :rofl:

Cheap copy? Tesla depends on Chinese (and Korean/Japanese) techs (from battery to some automatic system, which can only be manufactured in China, that's what I found from a Vietnamese website by people used to work for Tesla. They agree that while Tesla is a good money making machine, it is not an inventor, but a copier, who uses others' inventions and technologies to make money).

The fact is while Tesla auto pilot is nowhere to be seen, auto pilot taxis are already running NOW in Shanghai.

Is there any people who is familiar with this area of technology who can elaborate more to avoid the hoax and bragging? Who is copying whom?
 
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I'm not sure if they can share it with others...I could be wrong. The main difference is that other car companies that have their competing self driving tech...they are relying heavily on LiDAR. Tesla never used LiDAR and instead has a set of cameras all around the vehicle.
...if however it can be used and licensed...then they should license it along with their supercharger network and batteries. Before long all EVs of all companies will be heavily reliant on Tesla.
Yes if and if only they can capture major markets... ex Middle East... now there’s been introduction of battery cars in Kuwait for ex. Not one single charging station however. Also Tesla has a proprietary charging socket so other manufacturers can’t use their supercharger startions unless Tesla licenses it
 
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Either this article is written by a "dil-jala" or someone on the payroll of "Big Oil".
 
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Yes if and if only they can capture major markets... ex Middle East... now there’s been introduction of battery cars in Kuwait for ex. Not one single charging station however. Also Tesla has a proprietary charging socket so other manufacturers can’t use their supercharger startions unless Tesla licenses it
One of the biggest problems of capturing other markets is the fact that it is an electric car. Yeah they've been catching on...but the infrastructure required for mass scale adoption isn't in place. In markets like Kuwait...they have the purchasing power...but it becomes like the chicken and the egg problem...
...ppl don't wanna buy an electric car bcuz of a lack of charging stations...and there are no charging stations everywhere bcuz hardly anyone has an electric car.

Here in US...it was a similar problem...in that case Tesla just bit the bullet and built the supercharger network at a great cost to itself. Tesla hasn't been profitable for a while now...and still they invested a whole lot of money into building these superchargers bcuz they needed to do it in order to escape this chicken and egg loop.

I think US is their main focus rn...or other countries like China(which has charging stations and ppl are buying EVs...whether Tesla's or other Chinese ones). In order to target Kuwait like countries...it would require significant investment...
...and I don't think they are going to bother doing that just yet.

They just need some time for more battery tech to mature. Reportedly the million mile battery and solid state batteries are just around the corner(in labs...no mass production yet). Given like 5 more years or so...battery density and battery life should improve further...while cost becomes more affordable. With this further increase in range and a possibly even lower cost...they might be able to skip the step where they have to build a supercharger network. If ur car can give u 600mile range on a full charge...u most definitely won't have to stop at a supercharger for a very large majority of ur drives...and can simply plug it in to charge at home. Yes it doesn't completely eliminate the need of superchargers...but it greatly thins out the network of superchargers that needs to be built. At the same time it lowers range anxiety and further erodes any advantages that ICE cars hold over EV. This greatly improves the likelihood of ppl wanting to buy EVs...which overall translates into a significantly less investment for a potentially better return.

All these things of higher battery density, longer ranges, cheaper batteries sounds too good to be true rn...but it's all becoming reality fast. Even graphene batteries(by other companies) are becoming a thing now. So the future very much belongs to EVs(including large trucks) and Tesla isn't going anywhere anytime soon despite operating at a loss.
 
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World has enough oil to last 1,000 years

its not about lasting but environmental factors

We can use oil for transport as much as we want and without much pollution through a solution that is a political one instead of technological. The simple idea is to abolish privately-owned personal transport vehicles ( cars and motorized two-wheelers ) and in their place make mass public transport systems ( like buses ) more efficient and more in number. Also, make available more taxis for the occasional private outing. Factor in other types of vehicles like cement mixer trucks, pizza delivery vans, groceries delivery vans etc, all owned by the system and allotted to a shop or eatery as needed.
 
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We can use oil for transport as much as we want and without much pollution through a solution that is a political one instead of technological. The simple idea is to abolish privately-owned personal transport vehicles ( cars and motorized two-wheelers ) and in their place make mass public transport systems ( like buses ) more efficient and more in number. Also, make available more taxis for the occasional private outing. Factor in other types of vehicles like cement mixer trucks, pizza delivery vans, groceries delivery vans etc, all owned by the system and allotted to a shop or eatery as needed.
What you propose is just not practical. It couldn’t be done before it won’t be done now. Unless we’re talking about third world shit holes. South Asia for example places greater emphasis on public transport followed by bicycles and motorcycles.
 
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Tesla Short Thesis
We remain short Tesla Inc. (TSLA), which I still consider to be the biggest single stock bubble in this whole bubble market. The core points of our Tesla short thesis are:

  • Tesla has no “moat” of any kind; i.e., nothing meaningfully proprietary in terms of electric car technology, while existing automakers—unlike Tesla—have a decades-long “experience moat” of knowing how to mass-produce, distribute and service high-quality cars consistently and profitably, as well as the ability to subsidize losses on electric cars with profits from their conventional cars.

  • In 2020 Tesla will again lose money, as it has every year in its 17-year existence.

  • Tesla is now a “busted growth story”; revenue growth is flatlining while unit demand for its cars is only being maintained via price cutting.

  • Elon Musk is a securities fraud-committing pathological liar.
In June, courtesy of Business Insider, we once again learned how much of a sociopath Elon Musk is:

Then, courtesy of J.D. Power, we again learned about the atrocious quality of Tesla’s cars; it ranked dead last of 31 brands surveyed:

5adc7e6637421c5f0735553b1567cc8e

Stanphyl Capital
And here’s a great graphic from Twitter user @clausMller17 clearly demonstrating Tesla’s blatantly fraudulent EPA range claims for its cars:

b52794cc165a997aa9de455e0f4f153e

short tesla
And as @TeslaCharts points out on Twitter, Tesla is no longer even a growth company:

bc68ea5a44dc43df3eb08e4c5a2aecd6

short tesla
In May, faced with a shortage of demand in an increasingly competitive (see the many links below) electric car environment during an economic depression, Tesla cut prices across the board. Nothing’s more amusing than seeing this giant stock promotion of a company continue to add capacity (expanding its Chinese factory while supposedly breaking ground on brand new factories in Texas and Germany) in order to desperately try to maintain an image of “limitless demand” as it continually slashes prices to unprofitable levels (excluding its unsustainable emission credit sales and accounting fraud) just to utilize its existing capacity.

In April Tesla reported $16M in Q1 “earnings” thanks entirely to the sale of $354M in 100% margin emission credits that disappear after next year when other automakers no longer need to buy them as they’ll have enough EVs of their own. Additionally, Tesla’s earnings are typically inflated by around $200M/quarter from its ongoing warranty fraud (here’s an excellent Seeking Alpha article and another one in Fortune explaining some of this), so adjusted for these two factors the company would have lost over $500M in Q1, while free cash flow was minus $895M. This is not a viable business.

In addition to the typcial quarterly warranty reserve fraud, Musk may generate a Q2 profit by recognizing part of $600 million in non-cash (it’s already on the balance sheet) deferred revenue from its fraudulently named “Full Self-Driving” (the capabilities of which offer nothing of the kind), thereby turning yet another a money-losing quarter into one showing paper profits. Meanwhile, God only knows how many more people this monstrosity unleashed on public roads will kill, despite February’s NTSB hearing condemning it as dangerous.)

Meanwhile, a terrific chart from Twitter user @fly4dat illustrates how Tesla’s EV market share (the pink line below) in Europe (the world’s most competitive EV market) continues to erode as new competition arrives; this foreshadows what will soon happen to Tesla worldwide:

9fbdda249f00c1bc1ba7d1b669fe33e4

short tesla
And for those of you looking for a resumption of growth from Tesla’s upcoming Model Y, demand for that car is reportedly disastrous. This is unsurprising, as it will both massively cannibalize sales of the Model 3 sedan and (later this year and in 2021) face superior competition from the much nicer electric Audi Q4 e-tron, BMW iX3 (in Europe & China), Mercedes EQB, Volvo XC40 and Volkswagen ID.4, while less expensive and available now are the excellent new all-electric Hyundai Kona and Kia Niro, extremely well reviewed small crossovers with an EPA range of 258 miles for the Hyundai and 238 miles for the Kia, at prices of under $30,000 inclusive of the $7500 U.S. tax credit. Meanwhile, the Model 3 will have terrific direct “sedan competition” later this year from Volvo’s beautiful new Polestar 2, the BMW i4 and the premium version of Volkswagen’s ID.3.

And if you think China is the secret to the resumption of Tesla’s growth, let’s put that market in perspective even without the coronavirus problem: prior to a recent 10% sales tax exemption Tesla was selling around 30,000 Model 3s a year there, and “the story” is that avoiding the 15% tariff and that 10% sales tax will allow it to sell a lot more. There’s also a $3600 EV incentive available (which will be reduced over the next two years), but China just cut to 300,000 yuan the maximum price allowed for an EV to get it; Tesla is thus slashing its Model 3 price from 323,000 yuan to qualify and will now make little-to-nothing on the car, and thus all volume increases will be profitless. Meanwhile the rule of thumb for the elasticity of auto pricing is that every 1% price cut results in a sales increase of up to 2.4%. If we assume a 2.4x “elasticity multiplier,” domestically produced Model 3s that are 40% cheaper (than the original price at the 30,000/year sales rate) would result in annual sales of just 59,000 (40% x 2.4 = 96% more than the previous 30,000), meaning Tesla’s new Chinese factory would be a massive money-loser vs. its initial 150,000-unit annual capacity and the 500,000/year capacity it will supposedly have in 2021. Even if we were to increase the previous sales rate by 150% to 75,000 cars a year, it would be massively disappointing for Tesla bulls and the factory will be a huge money-loser.

Meanwhile, sales of Tesla’s highest-margin cars (the Models S&X) will be down by over 50% worldwide this year vs. their 2018 peak, thanks to cannibalization from the less expensive Model 3 and direct high-end competition (especially in Europe and China) from the Audi e-tron, Jaguar I-Pace, Mercedes EQC and Porsche Taycan, with multiple additional electric Audis, Mercedes and Porsches to follow, many at starting prices considerably below those of the high-end Teslas. (See the links below for more details.)

And oh, the joke of a “pickup truck” Tesla introduced in November won’t be any kind of “growth engine” either, especially as if it’s ever built it will enter a dogfight of a market.

Meanwhile, Tesla has the most executive departures I’ve ever seen from any company, including in June its VP of Business Development; here’s the astounding full list of escapees. These people aren’t leaving because things are going great (or even passably) at Tesla; rather, they’re likely leaving because Musk is either an outright crook or the world’s biggest jerk to work for (or both). And in January Aaron Greenspan of @PlainSite published a terrific treatise on the long history of Tesla fraud; please read it!

In May Consumer Reports completely eviscerated the safety of Tesla’s so-called “Autopilot” system; in fact, Teslas have far more pro rata (i.e., relative to the number sold) deadly incidents than other comparable new luxury cars; here’s a link to those that have been made public. Meanwhile Consumer Report’s annual auto reliability survey ranks Tesla 23rd out of 30 brands (and that’s with many stockholder/owners undoubtedly underreporting their problems—the real number is almost certainly much worse), and the number of lawsuits of all types against the company continues to escalate-- there are now over 800 including one proving blatant fraud by Musk in the SolarCity buyout (if you want to be really entertained, read his deposition!).

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-no-longer-even-growth-121604978.html

USE YOUR LAST MONEY TO PRINT OUT ALL OF YOUR *****PATENTS*****, THEN STORE THOSE IN A BANK VAULT OR 2, IN YOUR HOME, IN YOUR BEST FRIENDS' HOMES, AND WEATHER OUT THIS ECONOMIC SAND STORM IN THE COMFORT OF YOUR LAWN!

THEN, COME BACK LATER. UNDER THE OLD BRAND NAME, OR A NEW BRAND NAME.

BUT THAT'S JUST *MY* ADVICE. ASK MARCUM AS WELL!
 
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South Asia for example places greater emphasis on public transport followed by bicycles and motorcycles.

Bicycles are minuscule in India.

In India the buses are the main public transport and they are not efficient. Though in recent years there has been the metro rails in some main cities like Delhi and Bangalore.

In the India of the 80s there started a competition between scooter manufacturers and the motorcycle manufacturers. Side by side of this was an initiative of the Indian government to make available a small Suzuki car ( renamed Maruti 800 ) and a Suzuki van ( Maruti Omni ) as the promoted choice of four wheelers for the middle class. The government lost the opportunity then to abolish private vehicles.

In the 90s and the 2000s the newly affluent middle class Indians ( working in the IT / ITES sectors ) had some spare money to buy cars of international brands. Combine this with purchase of two wheelers. The side-effect was hugely increased pollution and traffic accidents ( India has the most number of traffic deaths in the world ).

Now the situation is that there are unnecessary flyovers being built to accommodate the still increasing private vehicles. These flyovers and roads have a side-effect of rainwater not reaching the water tables because the roads get flooded and the authorities have to get pumps to remove the water. So, taking a broad perspective, privately-owned vehicles ( especially in South Asia ) are bad for health and harmony.
 
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Bicycles are minuscule in India.

In India the buses are the main public transport and they are not efficient. Though in recent years there has been the metro rails in some main cities like Delhi and Bangalore.

In the India of the 80s there started a competition between scooter manufacturers and the motorcycle manufacturers. Side by side of this was an initiative of the Indian government to make available a small Suzuki car ( renamed Maruti 800 ) and a Suzuki van ( Maruti Omni ) as the promoted choice of four wheelers for the middle class. The government lost the opportunity then to abolish private vehicles.

In the 90s and the 2000s the newly affluent middle class Indians ( working in the IT / ITES sectors ) had some spare money to buy cars of international brands. Combine this with purchase of two wheelers. The side-effect was hugely increased pollution and traffic accidents ( India has the most number of traffic deaths in the world ).

Now the situation is that there are unnecessary flyovers being built to accommodate the still increasing private vehicles. These flyovers and roads have a side-effect of rainwater not reaching the water tables because the roads get flooded and the authorities have to get pumps to remove the water. So, taking a broad perspective, privately-owned vehicles ( especially in South Asia ) are bad for health and harmony.
Traffic accidents do not primarily depend on numbers of cars but ineffective use of laws and poor infrastructure. Canada has some of the safest roads in the world because of their strict driving laws and well planned infrastructure
 
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Tesla Short Thesis
We remain short Tesla Inc. (TSLA), which I still consider to be the biggest single stock bubble in this whole bubble market. The core points of our Tesla short thesis are:

  • Tesla has no “moat” of any kind; i.e., nothing meaningfully proprietary in terms of electric car technology, while existing automakers—unlike Tesla—have a decades-long “experience moat” of knowing how to mass-produce, distribute and service high-quality cars consistently and profitably, as well as the ability to subsidize losses on electric cars with profits from their conventional cars.

  • In 2020 Tesla will again lose money, as it has every year in its 17-year existence.

  • Tesla is now a “busted growth story”; revenue growth is flatlining while unit demand for its cars is only being maintained via price cutting.

  • Elon Musk is a securities fraud-committing pathological liar.
In June, courtesy of Business Insider, we once again learned how much of a sociopath Elon Musk is:

Then, courtesy of J.D. Power, we again learned about the atrocious quality of Tesla’s cars; it ranked dead last of 31 brands surveyed:

5adc7e6637421c5f0735553b1567cc8e

Stanphyl Capital
And here’s a great graphic from Twitter user @clausMller17 clearly demonstrating Tesla’s blatantly fraudulent EPA range claims for its cars:

b52794cc165a997aa9de455e0f4f153e

short tesla
And as @TeslaCharts points out on Twitter, Tesla is no longer even a growth company:

bc68ea5a44dc43df3eb08e4c5a2aecd6

short tesla
In May, faced with a shortage of demand in an increasingly competitive (see the many links below) electric car environment during an economic depression, Tesla cut prices across the board. Nothing’s more amusing than seeing this giant stock promotion of a company continue to add capacity (expanding its Chinese factory while supposedly breaking ground on brand new factories in Texas and Germany) in order to desperately try to maintain an image of “limitless demand” as it continually slashes prices to unprofitable levels (excluding its unsustainable emission credit sales and accounting fraud) just to utilize its existing capacity.

In April Tesla reported $16M in Q1 “earnings” thanks entirely to the sale of $354M in 100% margin emission credits that disappear after next year when other automakers no longer need to buy them as they’ll have enough EVs of their own. Additionally, Tesla’s earnings are typically inflated by around $200M/quarter from its ongoing warranty fraud (here’s an excellent Seeking Alpha article and another one in Fortune explaining some of this), so adjusted for these two factors the company would have lost over $500M in Q1, while free cash flow was minus $895M. This is not a viable business.

In addition to the typcial quarterly warranty reserve fraud, Musk may generate a Q2 profit by recognizing part of $600 million in non-cash (it’s already on the balance sheet) deferred revenue from its fraudulently named “Full Self-Driving” (the capabilities of which offer nothing of the kind), thereby turning yet another a money-losing quarter into one showing paper profits. Meanwhile, God only knows how many more people this monstrosity unleashed on public roads will kill, despite February’s NTSB hearing condemning it as dangerous.)

Meanwhile, a terrific chart from Twitter user @fly4dat illustrates how Tesla’s EV market share (the pink line below) in Europe (the world’s most competitive EV market) continues to erode as new competition arrives; this foreshadows what will soon happen to Tesla worldwide:

9fbdda249f00c1bc1ba7d1b669fe33e4

short tesla
And for those of you looking for a resumption of growth from Tesla’s upcoming Model Y, demand for that car is reportedly disastrous. This is unsurprising, as it will both massively cannibalize sales of the Model 3 sedan and (later this year and in 2021) face superior competition from the much nicer electric Audi Q4 e-tron, BMW iX3 (in Europe & China), Mercedes EQB, Volvo XC40 and Volkswagen ID.4, while less expensive and available now are the excellent new all-electric Hyundai Kona and Kia Niro, extremely well reviewed small crossovers with an EPA range of 258 miles for the Hyundai and 238 miles for the Kia, at prices of under $30,000 inclusive of the $7500 U.S. tax credit. Meanwhile, the Model 3 will have terrific direct “sedan competition” later this year from Volvo’s beautiful new Polestar 2, the BMW i4 and the premium version of Volkswagen’s ID.3.

And if you think China is the secret to the resumption of Tesla’s growth, let’s put that market in perspective even without the coronavirus problem: prior to a recent 10% sales tax exemption Tesla was selling around 30,000 Model 3s a year there, and “the story” is that avoiding the 15% tariff and that 10% sales tax will allow it to sell a lot more. There’s also a $3600 EV incentive available (which will be reduced over the next two years), but China just cut to 300,000 yuan the maximum price allowed for an EV to get it; Tesla is thus slashing its Model 3 price from 323,000 yuan to qualify and will now make little-to-nothing on the car, and thus all volume increases will be profitless. Meanwhile the rule of thumb for the elasticity of auto pricing is that every 1% price cut results in a sales increase of up to 2.4%. If we assume a 2.4x “elasticity multiplier,” domestically produced Model 3s that are 40% cheaper (than the original price at the 30,000/year sales rate) would result in annual sales of just 59,000 (40% x 2.4 = 96% more than the previous 30,000), meaning Tesla’s new Chinese factory would be a massive money-loser vs. its initial 150,000-unit annual capacity and the 500,000/year capacity it will supposedly have in 2021. Even if we were to increase the previous sales rate by 150% to 75,000 cars a year, it would be massively disappointing for Tesla bulls and the factory will be a huge money-loser.

Meanwhile, sales of Tesla’s highest-margin cars (the Models S&X) will be down by over 50% worldwide this year vs. their 2018 peak, thanks to cannibalization from the less expensive Model 3 and direct high-end competition (especially in Europe and China) from the Audi e-tron, Jaguar I-Pace, Mercedes EQC and Porsche Taycan, with multiple additional electric Audis, Mercedes and Porsches to follow, many at starting prices considerably below those of the high-end Teslas. (See the links below for more details.)

And oh, the joke of a “pickup truck” Tesla introduced in November won’t be any kind of “growth engine” either, especially as if it’s ever built it will enter a dogfight of a market.

Meanwhile, Tesla has the most executive departures I’ve ever seen from any company, including in June its VP of Business Development; here’s the astounding full list of escapees. These people aren’t leaving because things are going great (or even passably) at Tesla; rather, they’re likely leaving because Musk is either an outright crook or the world’s biggest jerk to work for (or both). And in January Aaron Greenspan of @PlainSite published a terrific treatise on the long history of Tesla fraud; please read it!

In May Consumer Reports completely eviscerated the safety of Tesla’s so-called “Autopilot” system; in fact, Teslas have far more pro rata (i.e., relative to the number sold) deadly incidents than other comparable new luxury cars; here’s a link to those that have been made public. Meanwhile Consumer Report’s annual auto reliability survey ranks Tesla 23rd out of 30 brands (and that’s with many stockholder/owners undoubtedly underreporting their problems—the real number is almost certainly much worse), and the number of lawsuits of all types against the company continues to escalate-- there are now over 800 including one proving blatant fraud by Musk in the SolarCity buyout (if you want to be really entertained, read his deposition!).

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-no-longer-even-growth-121604978.html


Up another 11% today!
 
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Cheap copy? Tesla depends on Chinese (and Korean/Japanese) techs (from battery to some automatic system, which can only be manufactured in China, that's what I found from a Vietnamese website by people used to work for Tesla.

Um no. He has already explicitly said China didn't have anything worthy.
 
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