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Terrorists attacks Jinnah Hospital

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Here is one report. I read a couple. Let me find the others.

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I'll also try to post earlier reports where they allege "terrorist training from Israel to kill Khatm e Nabuwwat leaders" and what not.

Otherwise Pakistan should change its name from Islamic republic to just Pakistan.
 
Constitutional Muslim is good enough other wise you can suggest better way to to define Muslims?

I have maintained, like many people, that it is not the responsibility of the state to interpret or define religion for the people. Your avatar is of a man who held the very same view on this issue. I can post his statements on this very issue when he was asked to call them non-Muslims and he declined saying that it was not his duty to do so nor had any person got the right to do so.
 
boy
My Father is in Army, My closest friend Got shahdat in Bajor and Got Sj

all Pakistan is against terrorists we are fighting and sacrifising and we will keep on until ***** of terrorism and extremism ends but it does not mean we leave the Love of our Master and Prophet Muhammad .
We will defend our minorities as I have said but minority like Ahmedi community should understand the sensitivites of Muslims over KHATAM E NABOVAT and should not insist or teese the muslims by insisting that they should be called muslims

Just as you keep insisting that India cut the P@kis some slack, why dont Pakistani Muslims adopt a live and let live approach vis a vis Ahmedis? The majority muslimeen has no big brotherly instincts?
 
Otherwise Pakistan should change its name from Islamic republic to just Pakistan.

Don't give me the "created in the name of religion" argument. I'll shatter all your arguments to the bone if you try to hold this line of reason.

The post-Zia mind that has never read objective history perhaps does not even know that the "Pakistan ka Matlab Kiya La Ilaha Illa Allah" slogan was never raised from the platform of the Muslim League and was created by a Sialkoti poet for his election campaign in 1945 and when he suggested Jinnah to use it Jinnah rejected the proposal. Kids watching PTV dramas directed post 1979 are led to believe that this slogan was being raised on March 23, 1940. If you've read only hagiographies you have no knowledge of the Pakistan movement, what it stood for, who supported it and who hijacked this nation after Independence. (Don' tell me I;m creating facts for I have documentary evidence spanning more than a dozen books to support this claim like many other history buffs).

On the topic of the necessity of declaring Ahmedis as non-Musl;ims, follow this line of argument, if you may:-

As an example of the differences between social values and legality, let me present a couple of bright bulbs. Social values can be based on a cultural values, religious values or a mixture of both.

Before the promulgation of the The Offence of Zina (Enforcement Of Hudood) Ordinance, 1979, fornication (sexual intercourse outside marriage between two unmarried people) was not a criminal offence. Adultery was a crime and is specifically described to be between one or both being married and was defined by Section 497 of the PPC. It read:-

zina.jpg


The crime of adultery was not gender-neutral in its definition (meaning a woman could not be accused of rape (zina bil jabar) against a man, or possibly a woman). The Zina Ordinance used "persons" and was thus gender-neutral.

What I wanted to establish here is that although fornication was not a criminal offence before 1979, it did not mean that people fornicated on every corner of the street, in parks or society was "morally lewd" in general. Here social values were far more relevant and held ground.

Before 1977, Consumption of Liquor and Gambling were legal as well. This did not mean that the entire nation was drunk or gambled. In these situations, social values held the higher ground and these were looked down upon regardless of their legality.

Similarly before the enforcement of the draconian and widely misused for victimization Blasphemy Laws, there were no such injunctions and cases were admitted under civil jurisdiction of hatespeech and promoting enmity between different groups among many injunctions.

Thus, the Pakistan before 1977 would have been a shocker to the post-Zia trained mindset that is susceptible to religious rhetoric and regards that anything deemed tantamount to religious values (even if with malafide intentions) needs to be banned, prosecuted and criminalized.

The constitutional provision and amendments to the PPC to deem Ahmedis non-Muslims have had little value above prosecuting minorities, committing violence against minorities and inciting hatred. Before the passage of the 2nd amendment, general consensus held them to be non-Muslims since the days of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself. Thus regardless of the legal standing, social values and religious interpretation widely acceptable held major ground.

Explicitly defining them as non-Muslims was not a job of the state nor was it the state's duty to deem it necessary that we sign oath of Muslim definitions while obtaining identity documents. Such state powers allow for prosecution of minorities and accusing dissenters of such association and prosecuting them. It is inherently against the structure of the state and the system of governance to define religion and interpret it for the people. Interpretation of religion is left the scholars, its acceptance to the public and its judgment to the creator. It is not the state's job to do so.

Islamic jurisprudence, even the mainstream and orthodox one, has extensive mentions of the separation of religion and state, a concept that seems criminal to the post-Zia children.

I'll repeat questions I posted yesterday:-

My single question to the post-Zia children who have never understood the narrative of our past (the real version):-

Before Ahmedis weren't legally non-Mulsims, when there were no blasphemy laws, when there was no criminal offence of fornication, there was no legal ban of consumption of liquor, betting, gambling and when there was no article 227 (all existing laws shall be brought in conformity with the Injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Holy Quran and Sunnah, in this Part referred to as the Injunctions of Islam, and no law shall be enacted which is repugnant to such Injunctions), when there was no Federal Shariat Court or Council of Islam Ideology that interpreted state governance under religious ideology; were the people of Pakistan living an "un-Islamic" life? Were they non-Muslims or misguided? Were they confused about the separation of religion and state (there being no popular demand for such religious laws and these were promulgated forcefully rather than based on public opinion)? Were our elders misguided or was the re-born face of political Islam imported from Saudi Arabia and strengthened by our children of Maududi in direct confrontation with the previous strands of Islam in South Asia? Why did the people of Pakistan never demand a widely political role of Islam before that time? Were the lack of such "Islamic" provisions in our criminal and civil offences a symbol of "westernization", the dreaded "secularization" or directly "non-Islamic"?

I would not be surprised that most post-Zia adults who have been indoctrinated with such ideology where state and religion are so intertwined, two opposing ideologies of religious identity and nationalism intertwined and the widespread state religious powers used to criminalize offenses that need not be mentioned by the state prevalent would find the Pakistan pre-1977 perhaps and pre-1973 entirely to be "un-Islamic" in their definition of what constitutes "Islamic" and whether it is necessary for the state apparatus to hold "Islam" as well. The people of Pakistan of that era will most likely be deemed traitors, agents, infidels and liberal fascists by these indoctrinated minds for well and good.

I demand answers from the post-Zia children (not that I am not one of them but I do not agree with the post-Zia narrative handed down and accepted by our urban middle class youth)
 
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I know how politicians to their dirty work and I know who is responsible for all this in our country, these Khtume-Nabuwat guys are nothing but the same people who are using such tactis to encite hatred and create a place for sectarian violence.

A particular madrassa network is run by them where foreign funding is used to brainwash young minds and ready them for any attacks that are usually done for someone's interest.

We are suffering and these guys are out there promoting and holding their stupid conferences, funny how not one madrassa or their own mosque has been attacked.

Learn to get away from this thought process that is imposed into your mind, if you do not do that then we are doomed.


I think you have never met with a guy from a madrassa that is why you only know one side of the coin not the other.... particular madrassas are brainwashing young minds where are these particular madrassas??? no one has still managed to find out those madrassas in punjab or sindh or balochistan...... Pakistan Army is working against terrorist in FATA not in Madrassas..... So better not target madrassas in this regard because many terrorist who are at top levels are not products of madrassas..
 
I think you have never met with a guy from a madrassa that is why you only know one side of the coin not the other.... particular madrassas are brainwashing young minds where are these particular madrassas??? no one has still managed to find out those madrassas in punjab or sindh or balochistan...... Pakistan Army is working against terrorist in FATA not in Madrassas..... So better not target madrassas in this regard because many terrorist who are at top levels are not products of madrassas..

I have known people from Madrassas for a very long time, I know what goes on over there and how things occur, some of my family members are affiliated with these guys but now they have seen the real storm that is brewing becuase of these people and have cut off all links with these people.

The person who has been caught was taught in a Madrassa in Karachi, something starting with S, i forgot what it was, but the netowrk of these madrassa is the real problem, we can keep attacking FATA or parts of Pakhtunwa but when our own provinces are producing such menace, we have to deal with them.

You should look into their ties with the american embassies and how most of these were intially finded by america to challenge ZAB. The devil can enchant you in many ways and one way is mixing in with the local populace to entice problems.
 
Wese I tell you what most of the guys who believe that madrassas are doing this and that and also about every beared guy is terrrorist are living abroad and may be they will never come back..... but they still want to impose their thought on Paksitanis why??? if you want a system of your choice come to pakistan and struggle for it instead of making this forum black with your writings...:pakistan:
 
I have known people from Madrassas for a very long time, I know what goes on over there and how things occur, some of my family members are affiliated with these guys but now they have seen the real storm that is brewing becuase of these people and have cut off all links with these people.

The person who has been caught was taught in a Madrassa in Karachi, something starting with S, i forgot what it was, but the netowrk of these madrassa is the real problem, we can keep attacking FATA or parts of Pakhtunwa but when our own provinces are producing such menace, we have to deal with them.

You should look into their ties with the american embassies and how most of these were intially finded by america to challenge ZAB. The devil can enchant you in many ways and one way is mixing in with the local populace to entice problems.

So do you wanna say that these madrassas are funded by americans??
 
Well, atleast they are not successful to free or kill the injured terrorist, and been relocated according to GEOtv.That injured kid passing lot of information about his clan in Punjab. But keeping such a high profile terrorist in public hospital is totally stupidity.

Rehman Malik is head of interior ministery. He can decide what suits him best he can change the text of any investigation he can harras any one.... he can pretty much change the course of events.

He is the one responsible than info. is leaking to terrorists.
 
See how succesful they are in divinding us and then they are able to plan their attacks while we argue with each other. There skills in creating ethnic, religious and sectarian divide is key to causing destruction and hindrance of our country.

Shamefully they have used and won again by utlising their old techniques. They do that for a purpose and the purpose is beneficial to them and very harmful to us.

A large percent of Pakistan is torn internally becuase the terrorist use the religion card and have put certain people in such a situation that they justify their killings and the path of the terrorists.

This whole religion facade is nothing but pure hypocrisy, these guys make a living this way, they do not have any other soure of income. Get this through you thick skulls, these mullahs do this for a living.
 
This is the reality of the man who lead JI for 50 years. The man who opposed the creation of Pakistan on ideological reasons. The man who declared Jinnah as "Kafir e Azam" and Pakistan as "Dar ul Harb" before Partition and declared it was "created in the name of Islam" days after Partition and hijacked our national ideology. Traitor Mullahs.

"There was Apart from holding meetings [with US diplomats and intelligence agents], a wireless link had been established between the USIS-US Consulate General-Maulana Maududi Residence"

"Profiles of Intelligence" - Page 35 by Brig S.A.I. Tirmazi former DG JCIB- Inter Services Intelligence
 
This is the reality of the man who lead JI for 50 years. The man who opposed the creation of Pakistan on ideological reasons. The man who declared Jinnah as "Kafir e Azam" and Pakistan as "Dar ul Harb" before Partition and declared it was "created in the name of Islam" days after Partition and hijacked our national ideology. Traitor Mullahs.

"There was Apart from holding meetings [with US diplomats and intelligence agents], a wireless link had been established between the USIS-US Consulate General-Maulana Maududi Residence"

"Profiles of Intelligence" - Page 35 by Brig S.A.I. Tirmazi former DG JCIB- Inter Services Intelligence

Pakistan was not created in the name of Islam.... ok then what was two nation theory for???
 
See how succesful they are in divinding us and then they are able to plan their attacks while we argue with each other. There skills in creating ethnic, religious and sectarian divide is key to causing destruction and hindrance of our country.

Shamefully they have used and won again by utlising their old techniques. They do that for a purpose and the purpose is beneficial to them and very harmful to us.

A large percent of Pakistan is torn internally becuase the terrorist use the religion card and have put certain people in such a situation that they justify their killings and the path of the terrorists.

This whole religion facade is nothing but pure hypocrisy, these guys make a living this way, they do not have any other soure of income. Get this through you thick skulls, these mullahs do this for a living.

dont try to be hypocrate then and stop calling Ahmedies as Muslims

we all are Pakistanies try to bring every one together on Nationalism. we are Pakistanies and as a Pakistani we are one but when it comes to religon at least i cannot compromise my Basic principals of religon and so do millions.
 
One of the biggest critics of Jinnah and the people who truly opposed creation of Pakistan were the Majlis-e-Ahrar-e-Islam (Ahrar), they form many of the religious parties in Pakistan today.

They hated the idea of Pakistan and vehemently opposed it, today you people are following their ways. These people are the scum of our nation, they are the traitors within and have caused us much harm.

Look up what they had to say for our nation, the same nation that accepted them and when they arrived, the first thing they did was start sectarian violence.

What have we come down to that the people are following those who were our true enemies.

The Short And Sordid History Of Majlis-e-Ahrar-e-Islam Pak Tea House

They even attacked Allama Iqbal for Gods Sake.
 
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