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Terrorists attacks Jinnah Hospital

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Don't give me the "created in the name of religion" argument. I'll shatter all your arguments to the bone if you try to hold this line of reason.

Did I?
You are assuming things and blaming others! very good.

Facts:
It is PPP which has declared/dictated Pakistan as Islamic republic.
Today, PPP is run by a bunch of corrupt and convicted. No surprise we have all the trouble.
 
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Yaar I m serious what was reason behind two nation theory can any one explain???

According to some great minds Pakistan was made because muslims Seculerism was different from Indian seculerism.

Both countries wanted to give seculerism their religous cultural Tarka

lol :rofl::rofl:


Yar
پاکستان کا مطلب کیا؟
لا الہ الااللہ

At least my Grand Father joined the struggle on this slogan
 
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One of the biggest critics of Jinnah and the people who truly opposed creation of Pakistan were the Majlis-e-Ahrar-e-Islam (Ahrar), they form many of the religious parties in Pakistan today.

They hated the idea of Pakistan and vehemently opposed it, today you people are following their ways. These people are the scum of our nation, they are the traitors within and have caused us much harm.

Look up what they had to say for our nation, the same nation that accepted them and when they arrived, the first thing they did was start sectarian violence.

What have we come down to that the people are following those who were our true enemies.

The Short And Sordid History Of Majlis-e-Ahrar-e-Islam Pak Tea House

They even attacked Allama Iqbal for Gods Sake.

this is total BS it says that Allama Iqbal was Ahmadi uptill 1933 come on for God's sake we have full books written by Allama iqbal against Qadiyaniat..... I have posted a letter written by allama iqbal against Qadiyaaniyat even Qadiyaanis them selves are aware of the fact that allam Iqbal was against Qadiyaaniat..... I don't want to read this total crap article
 
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According to some great minds Pakistan was made because muslims Seculerism was different from Indian seculerism.

Both countries wanted to give seculerism their religous cultural Tarka

lol :rofl::rofl:


Yar
پاکستان کا مطلب کیا؟
لا الہ الااللہ

At least my Grand Father joined the struggle on this slogan
Yes!! Exactly most of the muslims joined the struggle just because of this one slogan i guess...... what is muslim secularism.....OMG secularism and Islam what a combination for the people who live in dream land
 
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Pakistan was created for moderate progressive Muslims who will have the heart to let others live their lives openly and preach there religion too. Not for the mullah who encites hatred and killing of others

Unfortunately the extremists who opposed Pakistan are now in charge, our founding father has laid out things for us which we have clearly not followed and lool at our conditon today.

Perhaps you fools need to read the constituent speech given by Jinnah.

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen!

I cordially thank you, with the utmost sincerity, for the honour you have conferred upon me - the greatest honour that is possible to confer - by electing me as your first President. I also thank those leaders who have spoken in appreciation of my services and their personal references to me. I sincerely hope that with your support and your co-operation we shall make this Constituent Assembly an example to the world. The Constituent Assembly has got two main functions to perform. The first is the very onerous and responsible task of framing the future constitution of Pakistan and the second of functioning as a full and complete sovereign body as the Federal Legislature of Pakistan. We have to do the best we can in adopting a provisional constitution for the Federal Legislature of Pakistan. You know really that not only we ourselves are wondering but, I think, the whole world is wondering at this unprecedented cyclonic revolution which has brought about the clan of creating and establishing two independent sovereign Dominions in this sub-continent. As it is, it has been unprecedented; there is no parallel in the history of the world. This mighty sub-continent with all kinds of inhabitants has been brought under a plan which is titanic, unknown, unparalleled. And what is very important with regards to it is that we have achieved it peacefully and by means of an evolution of the greatest possible character.

Dealing with our first function in this Assembly, I cannot make any well-considered pronouncement at this moment, but I shall say a few things as they occur to me. The first and the foremost thing that I would like to emphasize is this: remember that you are now a sovereign legislative body and you have got all the powers. It, therefore, places on you the gravest responsibility as to how you should take your decisions. The first observation that I would like to make is this: You will no doubt agree with me that the first duty of a government is to maintain law and order, so that the life, property and religious beliefs of its subjects are fully protected by the State.

The second thing that occurs to me is this: One of the biggest curses from which India is suffering - I do not say that other countries are free from it, but, I think our condition is much worse - is bribery and corruption. That really is a poison. We must put that down with an iron hand and I hope that you will take adequate measures as soon as it is possible for this Assembly to do so.

Black-marketing is another curse. Well, I know that blackmarketeers are frequently caught and punished. Judicial sentences are passed or sometimes fines only are imposed. Now you have to tackle this monster, which today is a colossal crime against society, in our distressed conditions, when we constantly face shortage of food and other essential commodities of life. A citizen who does black-marketing commits, I think, a greater crime than the biggest and most grievous of crimes. These blackmarketeers are really knowing, intelligent and ordinarily responsible people, and when they indulge in black-marketing, I think they ought to be very severely punished, because the entire system of control and regulation of foodstuffs and essential commodities, and cause wholesale starvation and want and even death.

The next thing that strikes me is this: Here again it is a legacy which has been passed on to us. Along with many other things, good and bad, has arrived this great evil, the evil of nepotism and jobbery. I want to make it quite clear that I shall never tolerate any kind of jobbery, nepotism or any any influence directly of indirectly brought to bear upon me. Whenever I will find that such a practice is in vogue or is continuing anywhere, low or high, I shall certainly not countenance it.

I know there are people who do not quite agree with the division of India and the partition of the Punjab and Bengal. Much has been said against it, but now that it has been accepted, it is the duty of everyone of us to loyally abide by it and honourably act according to the agreement which is now final and binding on all. But you must remember, as I have said, that this mighty revolution that has taken place is unprecedented. One can quite understand the feeling that exists between the two communities wherever one community is in majority and the other is in minority. But the question is, whether it was possible or practicable to act otherwise than what has been done, A division had to take place. On both sides, in Hindustan and Pakistan, there are sections of people who may not agree with it, who may not like it, but in my judgement there was no other solution and I am sure future history will record is verdict in favour of it. And what is more, it will be proved by actual experience as we go on that was the only solution of India's constitutional problem. Any idea of a united India could never have worked and in my judgement it would have led us to terrific disaster. Maybe that view is correct; maybe it is not; that remains to be seen. All the same, in this division it was impossible to avoid the question of minorities being in one Dominion or the other. Now that was unavoidable. There is no other solution. Now what shall we do? Now, if we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous, we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor. If you will work in co-operation, forgetting the past, burying the hatchet, you are bound to succeed. If you change your past and work together in a spirit that everyone of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges, and obligations, there will be on end to the progress you will make.

I cannot emphasize it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community, because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on, and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis and so on, will vanish. Indeed if you ask me, this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain the freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free people long long ago. No power can hold another nation, and specially a nation of 400 million souls in subjection; nobody could have conquered you, and even if it had happened, nobody could have continued its hold on you for any length of time, but for this. Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State. As you know, history shows that in England, conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days where there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the Nation.

Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.

Well, gentlemen, I do not wish to take up any more of your time and thank you again for the honour you have done to me. I shall always be guided by the principles of justice and fairplay without any, as is put in the political language, prejudice or ill-will, in other words, partiality or favouritism. My guiding principle will be justice and complete impartiality, and I am sure that with your support and co-operation, I can look forward to Pakistan becoming one of the greatest nations of the world.

I have received a message from the United States of America addressed to me. It reads:

I have the honour to communicate to you, in Your Excellency's capacity as President of the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, the following message which I have just received from the Secretary of State of the United States:
On the occasion of of the first meeting of the Constituent Assembly for Pakistan, I extend to you and to the members of the Assembly, the best wishes of the Government and the people of the United States for the successful conclusion of the great work you are about to undertake.
 
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this is total BS it says that Allama Iqbal was Ahmadi uptill 1933 come on for God's sake we have full books written by Allama iqbal against Qadiyaniat..... I have posted a letter written by allama iqbal against Qadiyaaniyat even Qadiyaanis them selves are aware of the fact that allam Iqbal was against Qadiyaaniat..... I don't want to read this total crap article

Come on, Allama Iqbal used to roll with Ahmadis and his cousins are ahmadies, :lol: he later did write things against them but he was a supporter initially, its only in his last days that he changed his view point.

Also this article is not written by some Madrassa educated idiot but rather a highly educated and a person who is well versed in history.

This guy is sunni too so his article is not biased. Read his profile here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Latif_Hamdani
 
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Pakistan was created for moderate progressive Muslims who will have the heart to let other live their openly and preach there religion too. Not for the mullah who encites hatred and killing of others

Unfortunately the extremists who opposed Pakistan are now in charge, our founding father has laid out things for us which we have clearly not followed and lool at our conditon today.

Perhaps you fool need to read the constituent speech given by Jinnah.

Tfaz
Care to explain what yuor definition of "moderate progressive Muslims" is. The last time I checked there was only one Islam and all muslims had to abide by it. Would love to hear your reply.
regards
Araz
 
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Pakistan was created for moderate progressive Muslims who will have the heart to let other live their openly and preach there religion too. Not for the mullah who encites hatred and killing of others

Unfortunately the extremists who opposed Pakistan are now in charge, our founding father has laid out things for us which we have clearly not followed and lool at our conditon today.

Perhaps you fools need to read the constituent speech given by Jinnah.

yaar I have read this but still this is not the answer to my question if Quad e Azam wanted a secular state why he only targeted muslims and muslim faith...?? this is my question I have read the speech BTW and it clearly says that Pakistan should be a secular state then why he only targeted Muslims???
 
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Come on, Allama Iqbal used to roll with Ahmadis and his cousins are ahmadies, :lol: he later did write things against them but he was a supporter initially, its only in his last days that he changed his view point.

Also this article is not written by some Madrassa educated idiot but rather a highly educated and a person who is well versed in history.

This guy is sunni too so his article is not biased. Read his profile here:

Yasser Latif Hamdani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most of the Muslims of india were with Mirza ghulam ahmad before he claimed prophethood that does not make them ahmadi So I totally disagree with you that Allama Iqbal was ahmadi after I have read his point of view about ahmadis......and the other thing is that a madrassa educated person might know well than so called well educated persons.... you cannot judge a person on the basis of his institute or degree
 
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yaar I have read this but still this is not the answer to my question if Quad e Azam wanted a secular state why he only targeted muslims and muslim faith...?? this is my question I have read the speech BTW and it clearly says that Pakistan should be a secular state then why he only targeted Muslims???

if pakistan was going to become a seculer state then what was the point of partition of Sub continent?
after all India was going to become seculer federation?

Some body will care to tell me whats difference between these two seculerisms and what is meaning of seculerism??????????????
 
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Pakistan was not created in the name of Islam.... ok then what was two nation theory for???

I am not here to explain to you the ideology for you clearly have no interest in anything beyond one line summarizations and have no answers to the questions I posed for the hagiographies you have read have left you confused.

Muslim Nationalism is miles away from the calls of an Islamic State. Jinnah is on record more than a dozen times saying it is not a call for an Islamic state nor is it a religious cause rather it is a cause to seek independence for the rights of Muslims of India. Muslim nationalism has cultural, historical and social reasons beyond the only reason that is taught to you i.e. religion. Social and cultural reasons are most definitely dependent somewhat on religious reasons but the historical reasons are far more important specifically the attitude of the INC which lead to the call for Pakistan.

I post the epilogue of K K Aziz's :The creation of Pakistan : A study in Nationalism" so that questions are left in your mind that you need to explore.

Google Docs
 
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if pakistan was going to become a seculer state then what was the point of partition of Sub continent?
after all India was going to become seculer federation?

Some body will care to tell me whats difference between these two seculerisms and what is meaning of seculerism??????????????

Read something one your own rather than demanding summarizations of complex historical ideas, social and cultural factors of nationalism and the demand for a separate country
 
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Tfaz
Care to explain what yuor definition of "moderate progressive Muslims" is. The last time I checked there was only one Islam and all muslims had to abide by it. Would love to hear your reply.
regards
Araz

Moderate: Being within reasonable limits
Progressive: Moving forward; advancing.


A moderate progressive muslim is one who abides by the rules of Islam but in context with todays world. We live in a global community where we we have to work in tandem with others, thus we have to continously learn and respect others while retaining our own identity.

There is not only one Islam, it is divided into many sects. All muslims clearly do not abide by the rules layed out and if we were we would be a lot better off.

The core principles of Islam are universally relevent and provide the ideal platform for all the various requirements, we have to use these and apply them in the modern world where rational thought and forward thiking approach is the main requirement.

It might sound generic but I think you should get the idea as to what I am getting at.

I basically mean that we have to be forward thinkig and reasonable Muslims that I do not see very often.
 
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yaar I have read this but still this is not the answer to my question if Quad e Azam wanted a secular state why he only targeted muslims and muslim faith...?? this is my question I have read the speech BTW and it clearly says that Pakistan should be a secular state then why he only targeted Muslims???

Reason 1:
MA Jinnah was only trying to protect the rights of Muslims in a democracy that would be comprised of an overwhelming number of Hindus. He was scared that the independence may be no independence at all, if India was to side line her Muslims. Exclusive Muslims constituencies was an idea that got floated around but did not work out as Hindus believed that in areas where Muslims were in majority Muslim leaders would naturally be elected by nature of democracy. MAJ wanted positive discrimination for Muslims.

Reason 2:
Falling out with Nehru.

Reason 3:
MA Jinnah was a smart lawyer. He realized his own bleak political chances and jumped the boat to seek greater glory. Others to follow in his steps Kim Il Sung and Mao Tse Tung to some extent.

It really boils down to a clash of personalities and super high egos. Religion made a back door entry much later.
 
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