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Terror in Vienna

Like I said, I deal with your people regularly. There is more work that needs to be done. It is the children who need to look at the non-Muslim population as a full and equal part of their community. A bright little boy from Manchester upon being introduced to the idea of universal brotherhood by me asked if I meant that he should consider the non-Muslim population as his 'frenemies.' It made me sad to realise that these young children are being taught the same exclusive, fundamental ideas of identity that have caused so much suffering back home.

There's always work to be done, but we have made great headway. As for boy he isn't representative of the vast majority of children in our community and nor is there a narrative of parents teaching such values to their children. Being an educator and community worker I know this better than anyone else.
Just going back to your earlier point regarding the community here being more religious, that may be the case, but they mould their faith with their environment. We don't have crazies walking into the mosques of other schools of thought and blowing them up, shooting them up or just plain and simply conducted terror assaults for the sake of their so called Jihad. Just look at the recent thread of the young Christian girl kidnapped and converted and how many resident Pakistanis backed it.
Pakistan's problems with religious fanaticism are far more deep rooted and immensely troubling.
Muslims save police and civilians in a terror attack on vienna


media silent

Thanks bro for this.
 
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Terrorist Shooting in Capital of Austria
A gunman killed by the police was an Islamic State “sympathizer,” the interior minister said. The police were searching for possible accomplices on Tuesday morning.

Christopher F. SchuetzeMelissa EddyKatrin BennholdChristoph Koettl
By Christopher F. Schuetze, Melissa Eddy, Katrin Bennhold and Christoph Koettl
Here’s what you need to know:
Video






0:36Police in Vienna Patrol Streets After Shooting in City Center
Several people were reported injured in the shooting Monday night in the heart of Austria’s capital. The interior minister called it an “obvious terrorist attack.”CreditCredit...Roland Schlager/Agence France-Presse, via Getty Images
The slain gunman was an ISIS ‘sympathizer,’ an official says.
A terrorist attack in central Vienna on Monday night left at least four people dead and many others wounded, including a police officer, government officials said.
One gunman was killed by the police. Austria’s interior minister, Karl Nehammer, called that gunman an Islamic State “sympathizer” at a Tuesday morning news conference. He did not reveal the man’s name, but he said the police had searched his apartment.
The police were still searching for possible accomplices on Tuesday morning, with about 1,000 officers fanning out across Vienna. The search was concentrated on central Vienna, and officials urged people to avoid the area.

But they also appeared to raise the possibility that the slain gunman had acted alone, though the authorities had previously said there were multiple attackers. Mr. Nehammer said the gunman killed by the police had been wearing a belt that looked like an explosive device, but later proved to be fake.
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Austria was grappling with the brutal attack in Vienna, as the authorities pressed their investigation.

At least 14 people were injured, six of them seriously, according to Harold Soros, a spokesman for the Interior Ministry.

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“It is definitely a terror attack,” said Austria’s chancellor, Sebastian Kurz.
The Vienna police initially said the attack, which began around 8 p.m., had involved “several suspects armed with rifles.”
The shootings took place in the heart of the Austrian capital, hours before the midnight start of a nationwide lockdown, one of several being imposed in Europe to stop the spread of the coronavirus.
“We have become the victim of a disgusting terror attack that is still going on,” Chancellor Kurz said in a televised address to the nation just before midnight.
As the night wore on, more gunfire was reported elsewhere across Vienna’s First District. Police officials described a chaotic situation, with several “exchanges of shots.” Emergency vehicles blocked off streets, and a streetcar line through the area was shut down.
The chancellor said he had called in troops to ensure the security of Austria’s official buildings, freeing up the police to “concentrate fully on the fight against terror.”

As the immediate danger passed, the city stayed on edge.
Hours after the attack began, tensions eased slightly as police officers began escorting people who had been trapped in bars and restaurants through security corridors. The opera house and a theater were also evacuated.
But the police maintained a heavy presence in the center of the city as they searched for suspects. More than 150 special police officers and 100 regular duty officers were on duty, and a crisis team in the Interior Ministry was overseeing the response.
“There is a lot to monitor,” Mayor Michael Ludwig said. “Many people are still in the inner city and we have to see that we get as many of them out of there.”
The authorities urged people to stay home and avoid the middle of the city. They also said children would be allowed to stay home from school on Tuesday.
With the target unclear, the authorities discouraged speculation.


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Austrian police special forces were on patrol after the shooting Monday.

Austrian police special forces were on patrol after the shooting Monday.Credit...Lisi Niesner/Reuters

The area where shots were first reported is a tight web of streets packed with bars and pubs, known locally as the “Bermuda Triangle.” It is also home to Vienna’s main temple, the Seitenstettengasse synagogue — but it was not clear what the intended target, or targets, of the attackers had been.
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The president of the Jewish Religious Community in Austria, Oskar Deutsch, said on Twitter that the initial shooting had occurred “in the immediate vicinity” of the temple, but that it was closed at the time.
“It is not clear right now whether the main temple was the target,” he said.
The police took to Twitter to urge restraint.
“Please don’t share any rumors, accusations, speculations or unconfirmed numbers of victims,” they said. “That does not help at all! Stay inside, take shelter, Keep away from public places.”
A mild evening out, and then gunfire.


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People running away from the state opera, near the scene of the shooting.

People running away from the state opera, near the scene of the shooting.Credit...Joe Klamar/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
The attackers struck as Austrians congregated outdoors to enjoy a final night out before the country imposes strict new measures to control the pandemic.
“You could feel a lot of people wanted to get out one more time before lockdown starts,” said Ameli Pietsch, 23, who was in the area an hour before the attack. “It was a mild evening and lots of people were outside.”
All that changed in a moment.
“I am currently in one of the restaurants right next to where the attacks happened,” said Julia Schrammel, a 24-year-old student. “I am here with my cousins because we wanted to spend a nice night together before the lockdown.”
At first, Ms. Schrammel said, the magnitude of what was happening was not clear.
“We just saw quite a few people running, had no clue what was going on, then heard the shooting and a few people screaming,” she said.
The restaurant was eventually locked down. Elsewhere, there were reports of patrons in other restaurants running into the kitchen to hide.
The city halted all trams and subways in central Vienna and repeated the police’s plea for people to shelter in place. That included many who were in restaurants and cafes.
“The situation here is very tense,” Ms. Schrammel said. “It’s safest to stay here. We are surrounded by tons of police and ambulances.”
The sound of sirens and helicopters filled the night air as Austrians struggled to absorb what was happening.
“We are in shock,” said Farnaz Alavi, a 34-year-old human resources consultant in Vienna. “It feels like they orchestrated this attack on the last night” before the lockdown, “when lots of people were out for maximum impact.”
Witnesses posted dramatic videos of the attack.
Several people posted dramatic videos of what appeared to be the shooting and its aftermath.
One video showed people helping a wounded person who was lying in a pool of blood, just outside a restaurant on Ruprechtsplatz and less than a mile from the Austrian Parliament building. Several chairs in the restaurant’s outdoor area had been overturned, as if abandoned in a hurry.
Another video showed a man in civilian clothing emerging from a bar or restaurant, then firing a rifle twice down a street.
Yet another video appeared to show the same gunman on the same street, shooting a man with a long gun at close range, then returning seconds later to shoot him twice more with a handgun.
Other videos showed people running for cover or ducking behind obstacles as shots echoed through the streets, and heavily armed police officers taking up positions.
On Twitter, the Vienna police pleaded with witnesses not to post videos and pictures to social media, but instead to send them to the authorities.
World leaders offered sympathy and support.
World leaders, government officials and politicians condemned the Vienna attacks, offering condolences to the victims and their families.
The French president, Emmanuel Macron, posted a message of support on Twitter in German, in which he referred to the recent terror attacks in his country.

“We French share the shock and grief of the Austrian people after an attack in Vienna,” Mr. Macron wrote. “After France it has been another friendly country that has been attacked. This is our Europe. Our enemies have to know who they are dealing with. We won’t give in.”
“Frightening, disturbing news reaches us from Vienna this evening,” read a statement from the German government, retweeted by Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel. “Even if the scale of the terror is not yet clear: our thoughts are with the injured and victims in these difficult hours. We mustn’t give way to hatred that is meant to split our societies.”
On the eve of the United States election, as many in the country feared potential unrest, President Trump also tweeted his condolences:
“Our prayers are with the people of Vienna after yet another vile act of terrorism in Europe. These evil attacks against innocent people must stop. The U.S. stands with Austria, France, and all of Europe in the fight against terrorists, including radical Islamic terrorists,” he wrote.
Mr. Trump’s national security adviser, Robert C. O’Brien, said in a statement that the country was praying for the people of Vienna. “We stand with Austria, France and all of Europe in the fight against terrorism,” Mr. O’Brien said.
Joseph R. Biden Jr., Mr. Trump’s Democratic opponent, said that he and his wife, Jill, were “keeping the victims and their families in our prayers.” He added, “We must all stand united against hate and violence.”
In Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called the attack “horrific and heartbreaking” and condemned it “in the strongest terms possible.”

A city that sometimes finds itself in the cross hairs.
Austria — and Vienna in particular — has been a target over the years for terrorist attacks, often with deadly outcomes.
Religious and political tensions, sometimes with no clear connection to Austria, have led to sporadic violence that has killed and wounded both civilians and political figures there.
In 1975, a meeting of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries in the city was stormed by six men with submachine guns. They killed three people and took at least 60 hostages.
A group that claimed responsibility cast the attack as “an act of political contestation and information” aimed at “the alliance between American imperialism and the capitulating reactionary forces in the Arab homeland.”
In 1981, Heinz Nittel, a leader of the Austrian Socialist party and head of the Austria-Israel Friendship Society, was assassinated outside his home by an assailant associated with a militant Palestinian group.
Synagogues in Vienna have also been subject to attack. Two people were killed in 1981 when terrorists attacked a temple with grenades and firearms. The attack came weeks after two small bombs detonated outside the Israeli Embassy.
Just after Christmas in 1985, panic engulfed the Vienna airport when three gunmen stormed the check-in lounge and opened fire with submachine guns, killing three and wounding dozens. Witnesses at the time said the attack began as an El Al Israel Airlines flight was boarding. The attack appeared to be coordinated with another El Al check-in 10 minutes earlier in Rome.
From 1993 to 1997, a series of mail bombs and other explosive devices, including one that wounded the mayor of Vienna, stoked fears of rising neo-Nazi terrorism in the country. The man who was convicted in the attacks said that his goal had been to create a reunification of German-speaking areas.
Melissa Eddy, Christopher F. Schuetze and Katrin Bennhold reported from Berlin. Christoph Koettl, Farnaz Fassihi and Emmett Lindner reported from New York. Livia Albeck-Ripka contributed reporting from Darwin, Australia, and Joe Ritchie from Hong Kong.

Christopher F. Schuetze covers German news, society and occasionally arts from the Berlin bureau. Before moving to Germany, he lived in the Netherlands, where he covered everything from tulips to sea-level rise. @CFSchuetze
Melissa Eddy is a correspondent based in Berlin who covers German politics, social issues and culture. She came to Germany as a Fulbright scholar in 1996, and previously worked for The Associated Press in Frankfurt, Vienna and the Balkans. @meddynytFacebook
Katrin Bennhold is the Berlin bureau chief. Previously she reported from London and Paris, covering a range of topics from the rise of populism to gender. @kbennholdFacebook
Christoph Koettl is a visual investigations journalist, specializing in geospatial and open-source research. He is an expert on armed conflicts, human rights and social media verification. @ckoettl


Austria police launch manhunt after ‘terror’ attack in Vienna
Police search for suspected gunmen who opened fire at six locations in the Austrian capital killing at least four people.




2 Nov 2020
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Updated:
an hour ago

Police in Austria have launched a manhunt after gunmen opened fire at multiple locations across central Vienna, killing at least four people and wounding several more in what Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz described as a “repulsive terror attack”.
“Sadly a fourth victim has died in a Vienna hospital, this brings the the death toll to two men and two women,” an interior ministry spokesman told AFP news agency.
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In Pictures: The deadly Vienna attackWorld reacts with anger, solidarity after Vienna shootings
One of the suspected gunmen, identified as an Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS) group sympathiser, was shot dead by police who said they were searching for at least one more assailant still at large. Authorities identified him as a 20-year-old Austrian-North Macedonian dual national, who wanted travel to Syria to join the ISIL group.
Vienna’s hospital service said seven people were in life-threatening condition on Tuesday, the Austrian news agency APA reported. In total, 17 people – including a police officer – were being treated in hospitals, with gunshot wounds but also cuts.
“It is now confirmed that yesterday’s attack was clearly an Islamist terror attack,” Kurz said. “It was an attack out of hatred – hatred for our fundamental values, hatred for our way of life, hatred for our democracy in which all people have equal rights and dignity.”
The attacks, in six locations including near a synagogue in the centre of the city, were carried out by “several suspects armed with rifles”, police said on Monday night.
Authorities are still trying to determine whether further attackers may be on the run.
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Interior Minister Karl Nehammer told APA that the dead gunman, who had roots in the Balkan nation of North Macedonia, had a previous conviction under a law that punishes membership in “terrorist” organisations.
The attacker, named as Kujtim Fejzulai, was sentenced to 22 months in prison in April 2019 because he had tried to travel to Syria to join the Islamic State group. He was granted early release in December under juvenile law.
Nehammer earlier said the attacker “sympathised with the militant terrorist group IS,” referring to ISIS, before urging the public to stay home in an early morning televised news conference on Tuesday.
Fifteen house searches have taken place and several people have been arrested, Nehammer said.
The attack began at about 8pm (19:00 GMT) on Monday, when several men armed with rifles opened fire – starting outside the city’s main synagogue – as many people took advantage of the last evening before a nationwide curfew took effect because of COVID-19.
“It sounded like firecrackers, then we realised it was shots,” said one eyewitness quoted by ORF.
A shooter had “shot wildly with an automatic weapon” before police arrived and opened fire, the witness added.









Officials said schools would be closed on Tuesday.
Frequent sirens and helicopters could be heard as emergency services responded to the shootings, and a large area of central Vienna was cordoned off.
Thomas Mayer, the European Editor at Austria’s Der Standard newspaper, told Al Jazeera that “there are police everywhere and the city centre is closed”.
“The problem is there are so many people who went to restaurants and bars to have some joy in the last evening before lockdown (and now) these people cannot go home,” he added.
“We are experiencing difficult hours in our republic,” Kurz said on Twitter shortly after the attacks, adding that the army would protect sites in the capital so the police could focus on anti-terror operations.
“Our police will act decisively against the perpetrators of this repulsive terror attack,” he said. “We will never be intimidated by terrorism and we will fight this attack with all means”.
The assailants, Kurz later told ORF, were “very well prepared” and “very well equipped, with automatic weapons”.
000_8UF2B4.jpg
Women run away from the first district near the state opera, central Vienna on November 2, 2020, following a shooting near a synagogue [Joe Klamar / AFP] ‘At least 100 rounds or even more’
While the shootings began near Vienna’s main synagogue, Jewish community leader Oskar Deutsch said on Twitter that it was not clear whether the synagogue and adjoining offices had been the target.
He added that they were closed at the time.
Rabbi Schlomo Hofmeister told London’s LBC radio he was in the compound of the synagogue when the attack took place.
“Upon hearing shots, we looked down [from] the windows and saw the gunmen shooting at the guests of the various bars and pubs,” he said.
“The gunmen were running around and shooting at least 100 rounds or even more in front of our building,” he said.

Bars and restaurants were packed with customers at the time of the shooting.
Eveline, a witness, described the moment people started to run after hearing gun shots.
“Suddenly the shooting started, at first we did not know what it was … Then there was shooting again, but closer, so we started to run away,” she told The Associated Press news agency.
“Because we did not know if we were running in the right direction, we ran into a hotel and hid there.”
Many European leaders took to social media to express their shock at the shootings.
On Twitter, French President Emmanuel Macron said France “shared the shock and grief of the Austrian people … This is Europe. Our enemies must know who they are dealing with. We will never give up.”
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he was “deeply shocked” at the attacks, and said Britain stood united with Austria, a sentiment shared by Mark Rutte, Prime Minister of the Netherlands.
“Our thoughts are with the victims and their families, and with the Austrian government in dealing with this heinous act,” Rutte wrote on Twitter.

2020-11-02T202155Z_115652347_RC28VJ9TKAGR_RTRMADP_3_AUSTRIA-POLITICS.jpg
Police block a street near Schwedenplatz after a shooting [Leonhard Foeger/Reuters]Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte and EU Council chief Charles Michel also “strongly condemned” the attacks.

And Germany’s foreign ministry tweeted that the reports from Austria were “horrifying and disturbing”.
“We can’t give in to hatred that is aimed at dividing our societies,” the ministry added.
Czech police said they were conducting checks on the border with Austria.
“Police are carrying out random checks of vehicles and passengers on border crossings with Austria as a preventive measure in relation to the terror attack in Vienna,” Czech police tweeted.
Source : Al Jazeera and News agencies


So do you like to keep ignoring the muslim issue integration in society of the western world and blame it to others?



United Nations Charter
Article 2

The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.


  1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
  2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
  3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
  4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
  5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
  6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
  7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Ever heard of sovereignty of a nation? It means every country has the independent right to rule own country without ever have to ask permisssion to other countries about how to handle economic, social, political or religious issue! Do you like it if i demand Pakistan should officially allowed everything in the country that is haram according to islam? The problem with muslim is the double standard.



All Macron did was preventing muslim extremist damaging France as country and take measures to prevent this kind of incidents again in the future. Whats wrong with it? dont like it? Then its time to move to other countries. If Erdogan and Imran Khan felt that Macron went too far with his measures targeting muslims, they should be diplomatic and complained their displeasure behind the closed door via the ambassadors and not in public. Fact is Erdogan as well Imran Khan are politician that need aimed a cheap shot at Macron to score a point in front of the guillible muslims. Mind you, in democratic system, politician never thinks in long term so they do everything to keep their power even if their acts jeopardize the country in the long run.
The problem i see is that by twisting Macron's words, Erdogan and Imran Khan suceed in playing the tough muslims leaders role which they are not suited for. They only exacerbate the bad muslims image in the world. And you muslim think its odd western world side with Israel.

If what i have written so far is the dumbist shit you have read in a long time, i am pretty sure you have pretty low standard.
I read Pakistan is going to boycot French products, but i was wondering, did you pakistani already asked the first lady Emine Erdoğan to burn her Hermès bag, yet? If not, start the petition now and show the world that there is no room for double standard, not even for the turks brothers and sisters.


Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has been calling on Muslims to boycott French products in response to France’s tough crackdown on radical Islam in the aftermath of the beheading of Samuel Paty, but his wife was quickly photographed carrying a luxurious $50,000 French-made handbag only days ago, as report by Greek City Times.

Turkey emine erdogan handbag
Emine seen days ago carrying a $50,000 French-made Hermès handbag.
However, Hürriyet propagandist Hande Fırat defended the First Lady after the opposition leader of the Kemalist opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) called for Emine Erdoğan to burn her $50,000 Hermès bag as part of the boycott against France.


“Emine Erdoğan never pays a lot of money for bags,” Firat said, adding “Instead of the original, she buys fakes, imitations.”


However, this is of course unbelievable when considering the Turkish President and his wife live in a $615 million mansion with 1,150 rooms with Italian imported marble and gold-inlaided glasses.

The The Presidential Complex Turkey
The Turkish Presidential Complex.
Turkey is one of the lowest ranked countries for media freedoms in the world, is the second most susceptible country surveyed on the European continent and its surrounds to fake news, has the most journalists jailed in the whole world, and 90% of media is government controlled.



Emine Erdogan’s Hermes handbag in focus after French boycott


  • Oct 28 2020 06:00 Gmt+3
  • Last Updated On: Oct 29 2020 11:08 Gmt+3

Turkish social media users have criticised Turkey’s First Lady Emine Erdoğan, after a photograph of her carrying a $50,000 French-made Hermes handbag resurfaced online.
“After Tayyip Erdoğan calls for a boycott of French goods, we expect Emine Sultan to burn her French-made bags in Taksim Square and show her support #EmperorHasNoClothes”, user @Who98408150 said on Twitter.

The call echoed Republican People’s Party (CHP) leader Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu, who suggested that the First Lady should be the first to boycott France by burning her handbag.
A spokesperson from the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) responded to this suggestion by claiming that the call demonstrated “violence against women”.

Back in June 2020, when the photos of the First Lady with the Hermes handbag had first been published, journalist Ender İmrek had appeared in court accused of insulting the President’s wife, “by not attributing nice qualities to her”, according to Duvar.
“This is a crime that doesn’t exist. According to the indictment, not praising Emine Erdoğan is equal to insulting her,” İmrek said in the court hearing.

Some social media users also pointed out that Turkish Airlines was about to take delivery of its first Airbus A350. Airbus is a French company.

A Turkish factchecking platform also pointed out that the winter flu vaccine used in Turkey is made by the French company Sanofi Pasteur.

With the Turkish Lira continuing to depreciate against global currencies, many users pointed out that Turkey’s economic crisis already makes it difficult for people to buy imported French goods.
Journalist Amberin Zaman, writing for Al-Monitor, said that the war of words was a distraction from Turkey’s real problems, which are economic.

Meanwhile, President Erdoğan responded to the call from opposition leader Kılıçdaroğlu for the First Lady to burn her Hermes handbag, saying,
“If you have a tiny bit of heart, talk about me. Don't talk about my wife. What kind of politician are you? If you're looking for a bag to burn, there are many White Turks with you.”

‘White Turk’ is an expression used to denote richer, more European facing Turkish people, as opposed to the ‘black Turks’ of Anatolia, who tend to be poorer, more working class, and more religious.



Wow, so much drivel and nonsense in one post. Truly amazing.

Yes Erdogan is a legend. Yes, france is a loser country and failed empire. Yes normal people all over the world will boycott french goods. I've actually never bought anything french and dont nay any decent goods worth boycotting personally.

No, nobody is going to boycott strategic goods that are useful to everyone and that can be used do undermine france economically or militarily. So yes, i will be still flying Airbus, (its not only a french company), Yes Turkish airlines will still fly airbus and take passengers form Air France. Yes turkey should still buy French military tech and reverse engineer it if possible.
 
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Pakistan's problems with religious fanaticism are far more deep rooted and immensely troubling.

But that's kind of expected is'nt it given Pakistan a is theocracy with blasphemy laws etc.. Where the religious right/clergy have enormous power regarding education and social life, Ironically despite this vast majority of Pakistani citizens seem to be more secular and inclusive of other belief than their expat counter parts, especially those living in the most liberal societies in the West (Not all you mate and the likes of @Indus Pakistan etc)

What's really scary is the amount of hostility towards non Muslims and Muslims with different view by those apparently residing in places like the US, Europe and Australia even in a microcosm like PDF, assuming the their flags of resident are true, It's as if this selected group have created the narrative for the forum, And anyone out side it are dealt with in a organizational method.. So likely this is the same outside the cyber world itself.. Just take ISIS, Where they're recruits are mainly from.. Certainly not Pakistan, Indonesia or Iran
 
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There's always work to be done, but we have made great headway. As for boy he isn't representative of the vast majority of children in our community and nor is there a narrative of parents teaching such values to their children. Being an educator and community worker I know this better than anyone else.
Just going back to your earlier point regarding the community here being more religious, that may be the case, but they mould their faith with their environment. We don't have crazies walking into the mosques of other schools of thought and blowing them up, shooting them up or just plain and simply conducted terror assaults for the sake of their so called Jihad. Just look at the recent thread of the young Christian girl kidnapped and converted and how many resident Pakistanis backed it.
Pakistan's problems with religious fanaticism are far more deep rooted and immensely troubling.


Thanks bro for this.
Also the example of the security guard shooting the bank manager.
Relihion is a very emotive subject and often people over react. Especially when they have little understanding. Personally I think you should be able to discuss anything as long as you don't abuse. The discussion if positive will lead to better understanding and ultimately closer to God.
 
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But that's kind of expected is'nt it given Pakistan a is theocracy with blasphemy laws etc.. Where the religious right/clergy have enormous power regarding education and social life, Ironically despite this vast majority of Pakistani citizens seem to be more secular and inclusive of other belief than their expat counter parts, especially those living in the most liberal societies in the West (Not all you mate and the likes of @Indus Pakistan etc)

What's really scary is the amount of hostility towards non Muslims and Muslims with different view by those apparently residing in places like the US, Europe and Australia even in a microcosm like PDF, assuming the their flags of resident are true, It's as if this selected group have created the narrative for the forum, And anyone out side it are dealt with in a organizational method.. So likely this is the same outside the cyber world itself.. Just take ISIS, Where they're recruits are mainly from.. Certainly not Pakistan, Indonesia or Iran

Western countries have always had problems with their minorities. They seemed to aways insist on enslaving them, putting them in concentration camps, gassing them, preventing them form having citizenship, not allowing them to own land, open bank accounts and enter restaurants etc. this is the first time they have had to deal with muslim minorities and its not easy for them.

So it will take some time for western countries to learn to deal with their muslim minorities. Muslims are a resilient and rebellious bunch, to wont succumb easily to what they perceive as unfair or unjust.

So I see this as just a continuation of a problem the west has created for itself.
 
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So I see this as just a continuation of a problem the west has created for itself.

All countries in the world past and present have have problems with minorities all have killed enslaved discriminated them throughout history, It's a human problem not a European one.. Mention any nation state that have had no issues with minorities religious or ethnic

And i particularly agree with you on this one, The West did indeed created this problem for themselves since the late 70's by opening it's borders to all kind of third world extremists to enter and given a free hand to create havoc in their home countries and now these same extremists are turning against the very countries that gave them refuge, And still apart form a handful leftist govts of Europe doesn't seem to learn the lessons.. I expect worse atrocities in the coming years
 
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All countries in the world past and present have have problems with minorities all have killed enslaved discriminated them throughout history, It's a human problem not a European one.. Mention any nation state that have had no issues with minorities religious or ethnic

And i particularly agree with you on this one, The West did indeed created this problem for themselves since the late 70's by opening it's borders to all kind of third world extremists to enter and given a free hand to create havoc in their home countries and now these same extremists are turning against the very countries that gave them refuge, And still apart form a handful leftist govts of Europe doesn't seem to learn the lessons.. I expect worse atrocities in the coming years

Let me correct you, it is usually the western countries that destroyed enslaved and wrecked those third world countries in the first place. And made them third world through murder robbery and genocide.

But yet, some new immigrants have not been good guests. But you can't have a worldwide empire based on exploitation and expect everything to go smoothly.

So I really feel sorry that places like austria who through no fault of their own have to suffer these integration issues. In modern history anyway. But it should be noted that in history, previous minorities were unable to properly integrate into austria and were all killed in a single wave of mass murder.
 
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Let me correct you, it is usually the western countries that destroyed enslaved and wrecked those third world countries in the first place. And made them third world through murder robbery and genocide.

But yet, some new immigrants have not been good guests. But you can't have a worldwide empire based on exploitation and expect everything to go smoothly.

So I really feel sorry that places like austria who through no fault of their own have to suffer these integration issues. In modern history anyway. But it should be noted that in history, previous minorities were unable to properly integrate into austria and were all killed in a single wave of mass murder.
I don't think its an integration issue.
Its islamaphobic issue. Had macron not been an idiot none of this would have happened.
Let's put the blame where it lies. You can't start a fire and then say oh why are there flames.
 
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I don't think its an integration issue.
Its islamaphobic issue. Had macron not been an idiot none of this would have happened.
Let's put the blame where it lies. You can't start a fire and then say oh why are there flames.

very good point, but with caution. I do live in a western country and I don't want "forces of freedom and free speech" arresting me for speaking freely and putting me in solitary confinement for free thoughts.

but i can say that France is a failed country and will probably continue to fail.
 
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Let me correct you, it is usually the western countries that destroyed enslaved and wrecked those third world countries in the first place. And made them third world through murder robbery and genocide.

Colonization did'nt start in the 16th century, It goes far far back to the very foundation of human civilization, Throughout history humans have subjugated other humans, Enslaved and murdered them especially those numerically less than them, We talk about European colonization because it's the most recent mass invasion, Before it' was the Caucasians of the the European continent that were victims of mass invasions and enslavement by people from Asia and Asia minor including the Middle East, It's just a cycle
 
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Colonization did'nt start in the 16th century, It goes far far back to the very foundation of human civilization, Throughout history humans have subjugated other humans, Enslaved and murdered them especially those numerically less than them, We talk about European colonization because it's the most recent mass invasion, Before it' was the Caucasians of the the European continent that were victims of mass invasions and enslavement by people from Asia and Asia minor including the Middle East, It's just a cycle

True, and many in the west pretend they have reached a new level of enlightenment. but hey haven't much.

For example, lets take France, a terrible and grotesque country, apparently enlightened. They, asked Haitian slaves to pay them compensation for freeing themselves. And they had to pay reparations to france until 1940 or whenever France was finally liberated by the the Germans in WW2. (liberated from their own arrogance).

france also kept tens of millions of Algerians as occupied captives without civil rights or citizenship while declaring Algeria as an integral part of France, all while cheering liberty, freedom and egalite or whatever nonsense french people say to one another.
 
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So I see that no Muslims are posting on this thread? No outrage?
Pretty sure there was already a thread about this.

Also, Muslims also ended up saving a bunch of lives, including that of a police officer's.

 
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But that's kind of expected is'nt it given Pakistan a is theocracy with blasphemy laws etc.. Where the religious right/clergy have enormous power regarding education and social life, Ironically despite this vast majority of Pakistani citizens seem to be more secular and inclusive of other belief than their expat counter parts, especially those living in the most liberal societies in the West (Not all you mate and the likes of @Indus Pakistan etc)

What's really scary is the amount of hostility towards non Muslims and Muslims with different view by those apparently residing in places like the US, Europe and Australia even in a microcosm like PDF, assuming the their flags of resident are true, It's as if this selected group have created the narrative for the forum, And anyone out side it are dealt with in a organizational method.. So likely this is the same outside the cyber world itself.. Just take ISIS, Where they're recruits are mainly from.. Certainly not Pakistan, Indonesia or Iran

As of yet no one in Pakistan have been put to death on charges of blasphemy laws by the government, these laws actually protects minorities from mob justice and those wanting to use blasphemy as a means of extracting personal revenge, the right religious clergy actually does not have any control regarding education and specially social life that is a myth you made up, they can influence the government with educational reforms and influence the masses in Friday sermons with their lifestyle and social life changes, they in fact have no power and physical control over the masses where they can force the people to live in a way they deem fit, this is coming from someone who has lived his whole life in Pakistan, so your bigoted and ignorant views are just that bigoted and ignorant, you know nothing about Pakistan, if you want to learn about Pakistan then watch vlogs of western tourists who actually have went to Pakistan and experienced what real Pakistan and Pakistanis are all about.



Colonization did'nt start in the 16th century, It goes far far back to the very foundation of human civilization, Throughout history humans have subjugated other humans, Enslaved and murdered them especially those numerically less than them, We talk about European colonization because it's the most recent mass invasion, Before it' was the Caucasians of the the European continent that were victims of mass invasions and enslavement by people from Asia and Asia minor including the Middle East, It's just a cycle

It was the USA who overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran during the 1950's and installed their own extremely corrupt and zealot dictator Shah for their own self interests, the dictatorship of the Shah led to the Iranian revolution, Ayatollah Khomeini flew in from France to take over the new government, on top of that during the early 2000's the USA invaded Iraq and overthrew Saddam Hussain the one guy who was limiting Iranian influence in the levant, lets not even go to the colonial era enslavement of the world by the western world, the present era mess that the west has created for the rest of the world to clean up after you leave is messed up as it is.

What was Raymond Davis a CIA operative doing in Pakistan who killed 2 Pakistanis and a car coming to aid him ran over and killed another Pakistani and this spy was still able to go scot free to the US afterwards, this is the US embassy in Islamabad, looks more like a military base than an embassy, I am sure they have thought a lot of ways of destabilising Pakistan if that destabilisation serves their own minuscule self interest in any way.

IslamabadNEC_SecondaryPhoto1.jpg
 
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