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Terror attack in christmas market in Berlin

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Whether the suspect is Pakistani or Arab, that doesn't help situation of Muslims in West in any way. In Asia we are Pakistanis, Arabs, Persians, Afgahns, etc. But on this side of the world Muslims are seen as one caste, creed and type.

Besides, this is not about Germany not having harmed Muslims, or them giving refuge to Muslims. Extremists always attack either the softest or easiest targets: Germany is easier to get into than the bigger evils US, UK, etc
There. Your mindset also is exposing the problem - Mr Contractor. You dad probably would bust your a*ss for marrying anything less than your first cousin and here you are worried about the global Muslim fraternity.

@Zaki It may well come out later on further investigation that there was no Pakistani involved or this was not a terrorist incident. The intent of this thread is not to look at that but the broader question as why so often Pakistani's are involved religious driven acts of hate eitheir inside Pakistan (very often) or outside Pakistan (often). The issue is beyond the immediate matters you touched on. Fact is we have a problem whether this was not or was a terrorist incident. Can we please focus on that instead. I am still hoping that there is no Pakistani connection but that stillleaves this issue we face.
 
The man suspected of deliberately ramming a large truck into a Christmas market in Berlin is a refugee from the Afghanistan-Pakistan region, two German intelligence officials and a police official told CNN.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/20/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html

Being a refugee from the Afghanistan-Pakistan region and being born in Pakistan aren't mutually exclusive.


Neue Details zum Tatverdächtigen Navid B.
Nach aktuellen Informationen der “Welt” war der Tatverdächtige unter den Namen David und Navid B. bekannt, geboren am 1. 1. 1993 in Turbat, Pakistan. Er ist im Februar 2016 nach Deutschland eingereist und hat seit dem 2. Juni 2016 eine Aufenthaltsgenehmigung. Es ist nicht sicher, ob es sich bei ihm um den Täter handelt, die Ermittlungen zur Person dauern an. Die Generalbundesanwaltschaft hat ein Strafverfahren eingeleitet und das BKA mit den Ermittlungen beauftragt.
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...pistolen-antreten.html#live-ticker-entry-7712
Translated:
New details about the suspect Navid B.
According to current information of the "world", the suspect was known under the names David and Navid B., born on January 1, 1993 in Turbat, Pakistan. It was submitted to Germany in February 2016 and has been granted a residence permit since 2 June 2016. It is not certain whether it is the perpetrator, the investigations to the person last. The prosecutor's office has initiated criminal proceedings and has commissioned the BKA to investigate.


I suggest you also read these:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...gela-merkel-latest-news-updates-a7486076.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...hristmas-market-lorry-suspect-truck-pakistani
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...er-hatte-seit-Juni-Aufenthaltsgestattung.html

Meanwhile at 13:00hrs today (28 minutes ago), it was reported:

Die Berliner Polizeiführung geht davon aus, dass es sich bei dem festgenommenen Pakistani nicht um den Todesfahrer handelt. Das erfuhr die “Welt” aus ranghohen Sicherheitskreisen. Demnach seien Angaben des mutmaßlichen Täters überprüft und als stimmend erachtet worden. “Wir haben den falschen Mann”, so ein ranghoher Polizeiführer. “Und damit eine neue Lage. Denn der wahre Täter ist noch bewaffnet auf freiem Fuß und kann neuen Schaden anrichten.” Die Bereitschaftspolizei der Hauptstadt und die Spezialkräfte wurden informiert.
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...pistolen-antreten.html#live-ticker-entry-7743
=
The police in Berlin assume that the Pakistani arrested is not the death driver. The "Welt" experienced this from high-ranking security cir- cles. According to this, the alleged perpetrator's data were verified and considered to be correct. "We have the wrong man," said a senior police officer. "And thus a new situation. For the real culprit is still armed at large and can cause new damage. "The capital's emergency police and the special forces were informed.
 
Okay the latest news is that the truck driver who rammed into Christmas shoppers in Berlin was 23 year old asylum seeker Pakistani 'Naved B' who had arrived in Germany just over 11 months ago

He was arrested but denied any involvement.
In Germany,you are innocent until proven guilty.
Why would he deny the act if he did it?
Couldnt it be that he is actually innocent?
Wait for more info before making such a statement.
 
Unfortunately people will judge us. So they should. We do it all the time. That is how the world is. This feelimngs are same. Disgust, shame and abhorence but all that is not going to addresss the issue.

We must begin by clinically dissecting the cause why Pakistani's are prone to such hate acts where they don't have any beef whatsoever. This guy for petes sakes arrived in Germany 11 months ago. That is less than 325 days. So clearly he was carry something within himself that caused this incident.

I think the problem is in the Pakistani mindset. Funny thing is your post even exposes the problem. It is subtle but profound. It is thought process so benign but so destructive as well. You said -

Notice how you place 'Muslim' in front of 'Pakistani's'.

Again notice what the priority is in your sentance.

Again the emphasis can be seen.

This shows that even in your mind at a conceptual level your mind is functioning along a "Muslim and others" model to such a degree that it even supercedes your nationalty - Pakistan. You used 'Muslims' three times and even when you used 'Pakistan' it was relegated to second or subsidiary position. Now compare this with Arabs who will mostly say Arabs and maybe then say 'Muslim' or Turks who almost always say 'Turk' without any other qualifiers.

What does this tell me? Simple. The notion of belonging to a Muslim nationhood is stronger then belonging to Pakistani nationhood. This is bad news and very destructive to Pakistan. Simply because there are over 1 billion Muslims spread over the entire world in over 40 countries. Statistics and probability will mean that there are always going to be ongoing issues in such a large group. By investing into this huge group you end up being contractor for all problems of the Muslim world and sure enough you - Havizsultan might be able to function carrying that load on your head but when multiplied over millions on pakistani's your going to get some with temperament that takes them to go another step further, another step further and finally take the plunge over the top like this guy.

This problem cannot go away unless Pakistani's are reconfigured to think as nationals of a state > Pakistan not nationals of a > global grouping.

As long as this problem of priority - placing Pakistan first is not resolved some Pakistani will keep going over the top and become contractos for global problems. In their case they have not heard of the saying 'charity begins at home'.


@Sinopakfriend Can you please look and give a thought to what I said. Often a outsider can see things better?
It is a sad and appalling incident but associating with the whole society is not accurate. The suspect was a Pakistani national but he did not attack those christian in Pakistan and if he had any links with extremist element he should have never been allowed the asylum in Germany in first place. A serious investigation should be performed which will tell us what changed his mind in his 11 months stay in Germany. He did not attack any German military or govt office, his motive was simple and clear that is to harm innocent civilian at the eve of Christmas. If his actions speaks of the overall behavior of society, he would have also done something like this in Pakistan.
 
It's not surprising at this point or is it?

As far as I can remember, I have not seen so much hatred for others than I did in Pakistan and this was before 9/11. I remember my Sunni teacher in a Catholic teacher spewing hatred against Shias. My friends abusing Hindu's, Jews or any other groups they were told by their parents, or environment, to despise. Pakistani's are by far the most emotional and reactive people you can come across. Very easy to manipulate and rile up.

What also doesn't help is the dire economic situation, an increasingly backward culture and a complete lack of empathy at this point.

Such negative exists in other societies and countries too, but they have a good share of people who hold a different ideologically. They, as a society, are able to overcome problems by having an alternative to their problems and respecting each other enough to let them live.

Whats the solution? Lets start with the economy. Well off society's tend to be more liberal and inclusive, but its difficult considering the way Pakistan is run. Outright ban or change of ideology/religion isn't possible either.

Look at history and see how a group within a nation had to fight to change things. The Americans fought a bloody civil war to abolish slavery and change the course of their country. In Pakistan, the intolerant, repressive, backward groups are far too powerful to change the status quo. But crazier things have happened.
 
Feel free to disagree but the event has been mishandled by the Germans

Firstly they said it was possible terrorist attack, later they found out the driver was polish and the van had polish number plate and changed the terror attack into an accident... Now they discovered the driver (who was possibly polish) also had an accomplice co-driver who is a Pakistani asylum seeker and the event turns back to terrorist attack

The point is, he wasn't driving at that time and why would he just rush into market for no reason. I know there have been similar terrorist attacks in Europe such as the one France few months ago when the drive crushed people on the road but I have a feeling its just an accident... They need to check the vehicle first if the brakes were working or not

This is not how it was reported

DW 17 hours ago -

DW 16 hours ago -

DW - 16 hours ago -

DW 15 hours ago -

DW 13 hours ago

DW 11 hours ago -

DW 6 hours ago -
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/811100951360794624

DW - 4 hours ago and Pakistani asylum seeker mention
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/811134027419832320
 
Just 23 Year of Age. Surly, He is being used. So it is not difficult to nab his Master.
 
Not that I expected anything better than an anti-immigration migrant. Oh the irony.
Irony. Do you even know what that word means? Your dad busted his a*ss to bring you or spawn you in UK so you could have better life than be raped by poverty in Pakistan or get raped by the elites in Pakistan. Yet after having been fed by the British welfare state, born in state hispital, went to state school now have the luxury to have some free time free from hunger you start thinking about Islamic global fvckin hummah. Ever heard the saying bite the hand that feeds you?

You and your ilk are the friends of the Neo Nazis and the far right. You people give them food with your filthy ways .... If one day the far right take over it will be thanks to mutts like you.

And please I am going to ask members here to accept the problem and suggst solutions. Lets not get trapped in the tree and overlook the forest please.
 
May be a person came Germany on Pakistani passport. Anyway its bad very bad. Then Muslim complaint Europe hate us.....obviously if people do these type of acts, who will welcome them. But , we can't generalize. If one is bad, thousands others who living peacefully and doing the contribution for the economic progress of Germany.
What people achieve killing innocent civilians in the name of " personal religion believes".
 
Arrested man 'not the driver' - report

Germany's Die Welt newspaper is quoting a "high-raking security source" as saying the arrested Pakistani man is not believed to be the person who carried out the deadly attack.

The man has denied any involvement.

"The real attacker is still armed and on the loose and can do more damage," the source told the newspaper.

Police and special units have been informed, the source told Die Welt.

Berlin police have renewed their calls for people in the city to report anything suspicious:
That's what I just posted. Meanwhil, the fact that this Navid/Naved B type isn't the killer, doesn't rule out that possibility the real perp is Pakistani (or any other nationality). So, let's all calm down and wait for more information.
 
News flash,
They claim to have arrested the wrong man.

There was a life press conference on N24 German news channel.
 
On Topic :

Every religion has two sides : Political and spiritual . Its the political sides that creates problems . Christians in the west have excellently delineated the two and more or less got rid of political side of religion . Jews Muslims and Neo Hindus not so much . No matter how much you say political side of your religion is rainbows sunshine and honey it is not . Its the most toxic thing out there which pools together the shrewd and lowest common denominator of a society together and that's where this whole story beings . If i teach a child from birth that oranges are apples it will always be apple in his mind . Ciao .
 
Whats the solution? Lets start with the economy. Well off society's tend to be more liberal and inclusive, but its difficult considering the way Pakistan is run. Outright ban or change of ideology/religion isn't possible either.

So what you are saying here is that a solution does not exist.
 
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