Terror attack in christmas market in Berlin

[Mr.Nair]

RIP, Germany is a nice country, incidents like these can make visa for sane pakistanis also more difficult.

 

[MarkusS]

Better move to Antarctica then.

That is not necessary. Queen Isabella in Spain showed how this issue can be dealed with.

Forza Italia demanded today that our plan is put into action.

All so called "refugees" have to be brought into closed camps on islands. They must work for the food they get. They lose their right to move freely. Make an agreement with any north african country and build up camps there. None of them will stay in Europe.

Italy already has 24/7 superveillance on all mosques. New ones arent allowed to be build. Evry muslim who makes even smallest anti italian / anti western remark gets deported within 4-5 days.

We want this to be installed in all of europe. Austria follows a similar approach and so does denmark.
Time for tolerance is over.

It is impossible to live in one country. It failed and the consequence is clear.

 

[The Sandman]

RIP, Germany is a nice country, incidents like these can make visa for sane pakistanis also more difficult.

there's no cure for hatred people literally go blind in hatred of others.

 

[maximuswarrior]

https://twitter.com/x/status/811281812823609346

There is a saying: khoda pahaar nikla
chuwa

It is very applicable here.

 

[H!TchHiker]

O

RIP, Germany is a nice country, incidents like these can make visa for sane pakistanis also more difficult.

Oh khuadya..Murgi k 1 tang...A suspect was not pakistani how many times it needs to be spoken..

 

[MarkusS]

I hope you don't have an Aneurysm or a Myocardial infarction

Dont worry for me. I´m athletic.

That said, our youth group of the Forza Italia in Lucca paid all 5 "enemie families" in our city a visit today. We let them know that they are watched. That they are not welcome. And that we will hold them accountable if anything happenes here.

 

[Mr.Nair]

O

Oh khuadya..Murgi k 1 tang...A suspect was not pakistani how many times it needs to be spoken..

I know, the rumours and many prior news are more than enough by authorities to have a background check of people from certain countries.

 

[haviZsultan]

Unfortunately people will judge us. So they should. We do it all the time. That is how the world is. This feelimngs are same. Disgust, shame and abhorence but all that is not going to addresss the issue.

I feel this post is a little judging and a little harsh on me.

But I agree with this part. The education system, the teaching in Pakistan, lack of criticism and objectiveness, treatment of liberals/secularists as traitors despite they haven't killed a single person to date, everything needs to be taken into account when looking into the core reasons and seeking a solution. We have been hijacked by mullahs of the most narrow minded kind and they are dictating our policy.

However I have to note from the start that all muslims are not the problem here. While there are those foul, evil people who would justify this, we are condemning it and strongly. The majority of muslims do not agree with this, the majority condemns this, the muslim majority is standing with Germany and Europe against this terrorism.

Also these types of attacks receive a lot of attention because they occur in Europe. This is happening daily in Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan/Yemen and weekly in Nigeria/Somalia/Pakistan. So there is a severe problem in the Islamic world but unfortunately our plight at the hands of vicious terrorists and mullahs is not taken into account because we are expendable to the Europeans/Americans.

Of course this is a muslim problem but the answer to the problem may be found in the historic principles laid out by early Muslim states which never had this level of fanaticism we now have.

We must begin by clinically dissecting the cause why Pakistani's are prone to such hate acts where they don't have any beef whatsoever. This guy for petes sakes arrived in Germany 11 months ago. That is less than 325 days. So clearly he was carry something within himself that caused this incident.

I agree. As I said muslims need to take account of the situation and begin to deconstruct the terrorist narrative. Unfortunately those who have have had to escape or have been killed. Its a dire situation for us. US occupation of Islamic states may have boosted the terrorist narrative too. Terrorist attacks were far fewer before the war on terror being launched but were still there. The roots could be the wahabi movement but even that was supported by the British.

In short everyone has fueled the fire of Islamic terrorism. First the west and then the self righteous Muslim states like Saudi Iran and Pakistan.

I think the problem is in the Pakistani mindset. Funny thing is your post even exposes the problem. It is subtle but profound. It is thought process so benign but so destructive as well. You said -

Terrorism is a most applicable problem to muslims. Bringing them up is necessary to understanding the common muslim narrative which is against any killing of innocents as well as important in de-constructing the terrorist narrative. Never have I promoted anything else. I have spoken about the mixing of religion and politics and praised the secular system.

But you are working on the premise that any form of Muslim advocacy is wrong. I am a secularist but other secularists, including you I have met don't have realistic aspirations for the world.

It took Europe time to eliminate orthodoxy and the environment wasn't half as volatile as it is now (with US having bases in almost all Muslim nations except Iran and some others and bombing Afghanistan like no tommorow). Lets note that Iqbal, our national poet noted that the loss of Ijtehad (1), religious debate and tolerant thinking/philosophy and the invasion of the mongols(2) destroyed Islamic liberalism forever. So there has always also been foreign interference which is as equally destructive as conservative thinking.

Other than this the battle between liberal Islam and extreme conservativeness is extremely old. Perhaps understanding the background and giving new space to Ibn Rushd's theories and other secular theories can help us find a solution to the problem. Abandoning Islam and removing its influence completely is a very simplistic assessment here. Even the secularism I advocate is to have a small taste of the majorities wishes in it. What i propose strongly though is that muslim laws should not be imposed on the non muslims like ZAB's ban on drinking for even Christians.

You are also implying that Muslims abandon their Muslimness completely. This is a very simplistic assessment because it is not do-able and is a very Islamophobic view. They will not do it. Instead we have to work on achieving harmony. Islamic philosophy has been hijacked by the narrow minded. This battle between narrow mindedness and a more liberal understanding of Islam has existed from the start.

There are still people like Ghamidi and even better people like Muhammad Farooq Khan who challenged the terrorist narrative and were staunch muslims. They argued against the terrorist narrative but were pious muslims. You are working on a assumption that any talk about muslims=the problem.

Lets note that USA itself supported mullahs like Zia Ul Haq who was one of the people who made Pakistan what it is now. They fought a so called jihad against the Soviets and fanaticized society for a decade to defeat them, then left Afghanistan to the mercy of the hardline wahabi/deobandi mullah. I think this act galavanized extremists-Muslim extremists everywhere. If we had seen we were being used right there this terrorist threat would not have magnified to such a scale.

Notice how you place 'Muslim' in front of 'Pakistani's'.

I meant nothing by it. You are nitpicking. I am a Pakistani nationalist and promote a Pakistan equal for all regardless of religion, sect or ethnicity. Being muslim does not come in the way of my being a Pakistani. Everyone should try to understand the basics of his religion. Whether he is a Christian, Jew or whatever.

Again notice what the priority is in your sentance.

Again the emphasis can be seen.

People take a lot of pride in being muslim. More than any other religion. But this pride is based on ancestors whose policies were largely secular which allowed the willful conversion of many to Islam.

This shows that even in your mind at a conceptual level your mind is functioning along a "Muslim and others" model to such a degree that it even supercedes your nationalty - Pakistan. You used 'Muslims' three times and even when you used 'Pakistan' it was relegated to second or subsidiary position. Now compare this with Arabs who will mostly say Arabs and maybe then say 'Muslim' or Turks who almost always say 'Turk' without any other qualifiers.

Being muslim is not an issue, being a fanatic is. The most proper setup for muslims and the setup we are told to have is the khilafat which rules over the whole Islamic world regardless of ethnicity/sect. Part of our problem is due to the fall and decline of khilafat. The last khilafat was seen 100 years ago under the Ottomans and it does not exist anymore. But Islamically all the muslim world should be one nation. Every Islamic nation is a shadow of itself and made by colonial powers.

Perhaps if the Islamic world was one there would be a more universal muslim voice against violent terrorism and other forms of tyranny. The Ummayads and Abbasids were very liberal. Works like the 1001 nights came during their time and a lot in it was objectionable for today's mullahs but it was the height of muslim free thinking and egalitarianism. Of course we can't predict the future but everytime Muslims were on the path to liberalism they were hijacked. From Wahab to women's education being banned in Afghanistan after years of women's rights given by communists. So was the case with the mongol invasion of Iraq.

Still this focus on Islamic renaisence does not mean I d not love my country.

I am a Pakistani nationalist. Being Muslim is not the problem here. Being a fanatic is.

What does this tell me? Simple. The notion of belonging to a Muslim nationhood is stronger then belonging to Pakistani nationhood. This is bad news and very destructive to Pakistan. Simply because there are over 1 billion Muslims spread over the entire world in over 40 countries. Statistics and probability will mean that there are always going to be ongoing issues in such a large group. By investing into this huge group you end up being contractor for all problems of the Muslim world and sure enough you - Havizsultan might be able to function carrying that load on your head but when multiplied over millions on pakistani's your going to get some with temperament that takes them to go another step further, another step further and finally take the plunge over the top like this guy.

The notion is as noticeable in Israel which is economically and militarily a quite successful state. They see it as a responsibility, a duty to help and uplift jews worldwide and their policy is the same.

Indoctrination is indeed a slow process and the current system of Islamic nations plays a role but so does the occupation of Islamic states and the lack of manliness of each such Islamic state. There are a cocktail of problems here and the solution is not as simplistic as this. As the conservatives rely on the assumption only Muslim=Pakistan and all minorities are a threat starting with Ahmedis you are relying on the assumption that no Islam lover can be a proper Pakistani nationalist.

My friend I respect your views but nationalism transcends all this. A good muslim can be a good Pakistani. So can a Ahmedi/Christian/Hindu. Lets not make overly simplistic assumptions about this extremely huge problem.

This problem cannot go away unless Pakistani's are reconfigured to think as nationals of a state > Pakistan not nationals of a > global grouping.

I don't think so. Nationalism and Religion can exist at the same level and have the same status in ones mind. Of course mixing religion with policy making and politics is a mistake which ancient Islamic movements like the mutazilites have also noted.

As long as this problem of priority - placing Pakistan first is not resolved some Pakistani will keep going over the top and become contractos for global problems. In their case they have not heard of the saying 'charity begins at home'.

I don't think if they put Muslimness before their nationality they automatically become terrorists. But yes a lot of Pakistanis and other muslims around the world have forgotten the glory days of the Rashiduns and Ummayads and the secularism around which their initial Islamic nations were built.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

right, so he's Pakistani now ? no longer a terrorist Afghan namak haram with a fake passport ?

Too bad son... The Germans have released him ... He's not a suspect anymore ..

 

[MarkusS]

You are disgusting!

For what? For protectiong our families. Our city and country?

If we chose to do nothing now it will get worse and worse. We cant allow this barbarism to spread further into our daily lifes.

 

[Khafee]

For what? For protectiong our families. Our city and country?

If we chose to do nothing now it will get worse and worse. We cant allow this barbarism to spread further into our daily lifes.

For ganging up on innocent people, and bullying them. Give someone who is already depressed / difficult circumstances, more reason to fly off the handle. Dumbest logic I ever heard, but hardly new coming from you.

 

[MarkusS]

For ganging up on people, and bullying them. Give someone who is already depressed / difficult circumstances, more reason to fly off the handle. Dumbest logic I ever heard, but hardly new coming from you.

We were polite. Dont worry. We delivered a message and made clear its understood.

Our nation is the last large european nation not hit by this. So far it was only Forza Italias harsh laws that prevented this. We deported people for just namig their children "jihad" or "Sharia". We deported people for a facebook rant against Italy.

If something happenes i would never forgive myself. We have christmas market in Lucca two. The decission to send out us was made from the party leadership itself. They send to evy city group and we youth members were send to the adress and delivered the message. We said it calm and in not an agressive way.

You must see it as a friendly remainder. They are guests. No more and no less. When you visit my house and do something wrong i would give you a friendly note too.

 

[maximuswarrior]

He can go to hell. He has no place in Europe. He is not European. Back in next plane and head where he came from.

He has no right to be here.

No Tolerance! No Mercy! This ends NOW.

Well, first he is going to sue your a$$. After that he should catch the next flight with bags of money. I agree.

 

[Khafee]

We were polite. Dont worry. We delivered a message and made clear its understood.

Our nation is the last large european nation not hit by this. So far it was only Forza Italias harsh laws that prevented this. We deported people for just namig their children "jihad" or "Sharia". We deported people for a facebook rant against Italy.

If something happenes i would never forgive myself. We have christmas market in Lucca two. The decission to send out us was made from the party leadership itself. They send to evy city group and we youth members were send to the adress and delivered the message. We said it calm and in not an agressive way.

You must see it as a friendly remainder. They are guests. No more and no less. When you visit my house and do something wrong i would give you a friendly note too.

Return to fascism. Remember what happened last time you went nuts?

Just looking at this thread, and how you were screaming and howling, one can only imagine how "polite" you actually were.

 

[T-123456]

They released the Pakistani.
Not guilty!