Terminology adjustment

[Sine Nomine]

Afghan today means citizen of Afghanistan.

 

[Kambojaric]

Its good that you are saying this. I myself being a Punjabi did not know this until a couple of years ago and have since used Afghanistani. If people from my part of the country use the word Afghan with malice it certainly is not meant towards Pakistani Pakhtuns as i can myself attest to, since i used the word Afghan once upon a time. Pakhtuns simply need to tell the other Pakistani ethnic groups how they feel about this like you are doing right now.

Another thing. Pakistan should eventually appropriate the term Afghan. The A in our name stands for Afghan, and there are far more Afghans in Pakistan than there are in Kabulistan.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

View attachment 586430

Afghan today means citizen of Afghanistan.

Not true did you read my post? Also our I'd cards say "Afghans"

Its good that you are saying this. I myself being a Punjabi did not know this until a couple of years ago and have since used Afghanistani. If people from my part of the country use the word Afghan with malice it certainly is not meant towards Pakistani Pakhtuns as i can myself attest to, since i used the word Afghan once upon a time. Pakhtuns simply need to tell the other Pakistani ethnic groups how they feel about this like you are doing right now.

Another thing. Pakistan should eventually appropriate the term Afghan. The A in our name stands for Afghan, and there are far more Afghans in Pakistan than there are in Kabulistan.

Well said, honestly I dont know what anyone has said this before. I'm also trying to crush some propaganda that might be used in this confusion

Afghan is not synonymous to Pakhtun. If u use it, Correct it my friend. Also Even non pakhtoon afghani call themselves Afghani, I have farsi speaking roomate and he still calls himself afghani so its a wrong number that is being tried to dial. The pakhtoon history by far outdates the afghan identity. Here is a thread if this helps and if not u can search the history for yourself. Abaad o Rokhana Usi.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1188533253369667585

Nope they dont. Afghan is older then the term pakhtoon so it's the benchmark of all of our names.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

A most welcome OP. These are the kinds of narratives that have been misappropriated by various internal and external nefarious elements, from orientalists of yesteryear through to RAW agencies in the modern era, in order to promote discord by confusion. The rogue elements in Pakistan cannot be targeted unless and until they are correctly identified. This is a good step.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

BTW why not the term Pakhtoon is preferred over Afghan as now it is part of the name of Province as well .... though I know the term Afghan, Afghani, Afghania have historical background, but keeping the current history of past 30-40 in mind the Term Afghan/Afghani could be problematic for our Pakhtoons.

Secondly you know in other provinces all Hazara and Panjsheeri and other from North Afghan population is also termed as Afghani in Pakistan so by using the term Afghan as exclusively related to Pakhtoon ethnicity what should those b termed ....??

Because like you said, we have many names that people call us by but the original one is Afghan. That's what ancient powers called us and thats what we called ourselves.

Just because Afghanistan hijacked that term, doesnt me we should stop using it. That whole country of Afghanistan is legitimate. Something created by the British to further divide the region and make it weak. It should've never even been separated from Pakistan, we are simply far too intertwined to be different nations. You can also read Iqbals poems to understand true extent of what pakistan is to be. From Punjab to ferghana

A most welcome OP. These are the kinds of narratives that have been misappropriated by various internal and external nefarious elements, from orientalists of yesteryear through to RAW agencies in the modern era, in order to promote discord by confusion. The rogue elements in Pakistan cannot be targeted unless and until they are correctly identified. This is a good step.

Exactly! There is alot of propaganda being fueled by this confusion

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Because like you said, we have many names that people call us by but the original one is Afghan. That's what ancient powers called us and thats what we called ourselves.

Just because Afghanistan hijacked that term, doesnt me we should stop using it. That whole country of Afghanistan is legitimate. Something created by the British to further divide the region and make it weak. It should've never even been separated from Pakistan, we are simply far too intertwined to be different nations. You can also read Iqbals poems to understand true extent of what pakistan is to be. From Punjab to ferghana


Exactly! There is alot of propaganda being fueled by this confusion

One recommendation: make thread sticky and add to the title something like: course correction, from "Afghan" to "Kabuli".

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Yes, U r right. While they (my room mate his friends) have been Ok with being called Afghani (considering as reference to Afghanistan) here outside the country but the he does reveal that locally they do call only pashtuns as afghan, so yes I hadn't understood it right. Thank you for correction.
P.S. The word afghan still also refer to Afghanistan nationals even in their constitution (I read and heard), though the ID issue clears that afghan word be used synonym for ethnic Pashtuns. The word etmology also reveals it is of persian speaking (second largest ethnic group in Afghanistan) origin to identify the pashtuns. As it stands pashtun and afghan are synonym, (in Afghanistan specifically) but why should it be the case in our country too, as it is getting. In pak, as far as i know, we have been called pathan or at tyms khan, never afghan by the other ecthnic groups. Still the fact remains. I personally, would still have and do prefer to be called Pashtun rather than afghan ( a word that can be attributed dual meanings)
Somehow I feel for the ethnic minorities of all the places/regions/states/provinces whose name is attributed to a specific ethnicity but historically regional identity is i guess bound to popular ethnic identity of the region.

The Pakistani state and its laws refer to us as Afghans too. Like I said it's not just limited to "Afghanistan" just like how Macedonian is not limited to the country of Macedonia

One recommendation: make thread sticky and add to the title something like: course correction, from "Afghan" to "Kabuli".

Idk how to do that, maybe one of the mods could.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

One recommendation: make thread sticky and add to the title something like: course correction, from "Afghan" to "Kabuli".

@Dubious

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Interesting part is that non pushtoon people from Afghanistan strongly object to be called afghans, there was a whole fight on it when the terminology was used in their ID cards..


its not easy, you cant change a world which is part of culture, poetry and language..especially poetry and written literature

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...r-id-cards-fuels-ethnic-tension-idUSKBN1FS1Y0


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...r-id-cards-fuels-ethnic-tension-idUSKBN1FS1Y0

Same with the name kpk. Other ethnicities had complained alot about the name only being exclusively for Pakhtoons

As far the etymology of the words go, Afghan is a persian word which as per encyclopedia Iranica, is used by persian people (and adopted by other non-pashtun people) of the afghanistan region to call Pashtuns.

Nope not just Persian. The greeks referred to us as Afghans too. Along with all other powers of the ancient times. Your information is also not accurate because pakhto was around at that time and it was a modern form of Avestan Greco bactrian, so with only some influence from Persian.

 

[Xeson]

Also our I'd cards say "Afghans"

Do u mind to share a pic or something as my CNIC nor domicile has any word afghan in it. A number of my friends do say so (having word afghan) about their domicile.

Nope they dont. Afghan is older then the term pakhtoon so it's the benchmark of all of our names.

I said earlier, Afghan is a very old and historical term with earliest traces that i could found upto are claimed upto 6CE. But things get interesting with the fact that Afghan is persian and arabic origin word used for us while "pastun" or as we say Pakhtun is native pashtu or pakhtu word, and being original own language word I didn't find its origin but the thread i referred to does refer to its use earlier than the word afghan which i havent confirmed and none here referred to in denial.
P.S.
Lets continue this thread objectively as is going and may be we can get the know the near confirm origin of each word and wats stands more appropriate. Thanks.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Do u mind to share a pic or something as my CNIC nor domicile has any word afghan in it. A number of my friends do say so (having word afghan) about their domicile.

I said earlier, Afghan is a very old and historical term with earliest traces that i could found upto are claimed upto 6CE. But things get interesting with the fact that Afghan is persian and arabic origin word used for us while "pastun" or as we say Pakhtun is native pashtu or pakhtu word, and being original own language word I didn't find its origin but the thread i referred to does refer to its use earlier than the word afghan which i havent confirmed and none here referred to in denial.
P.S.
Lets continue this thread objectively as is going and may be we can get the know the near confirm origin of each word and wats stands more appropriate. Thanks.

I dont have them on me but I remember my father showing them to me and then me asking him why I was called afghan. This was when i was like 8-9 years old. It could be other documentation but the story is the same. The state of Pakistan refers to is as Afghans, legally.

Do u mind to share a pic or something as my CNIC nor domicile has any word afghan in it. A number of my friends do say so (having word afghan) about their domicile.

I said earlier, Afghan is a very old and historical term with earliest traces that i could found upto are claimed upto 6CE. But things get interesting with the fact that Afghan is persian and arabic origin word used for us while "pastun" or as we say Pakhtun is native pashtu or pakhtu word, and being original own language word I didn't find its origin but the thread i referred to does refer to its use earlier than the word afghan which i havent confirmed and none here referred to in denial.
P.S.
Lets continue this thread objectively as is going and may be we can get the know the near confirm origin of each word and wats stands more appropriate. Thanks.

It's a very tricky subject but pakhtoons didnt right much about ourselves. Well nothing that's on a state level but things did stay within families. Like our heritage, backgrounds and who we are. In all of these stories this one word is the most redundant.

 

[Xeson]

It's a very tricky subject but pakhtoons didnt right much about ourselves. Well nothing that's on a state level but things did stay within families. Like our heritage, backgrounds and who we are. In all of these stories this one word is the most redundant.

Interesting thing btw is that always pashtoons whether called this or afghan have been quoted with their principle way of life that is always called "PUSHTOONWALI" and never Afghanwali so logically the base for word "pushtoon" stands strong. Also "pukhtoon ye or yum" is how we introduce and identify ourselves even amongst us on day to day basis. Ironically the "Mein Afghan hun" propaganda scheme and so called PTM is pushtoon TM, and not afghan TM lols. Every single human right voilation call when potraying this ethnicity as victim uses the word pushtun and so on and so forth. The point is "I am inclined towards pushtun or pakhtun" and don't buy afghan terminology as it stands. We all get to make our choices. I just lay down mine with the details of why I think so.
Cheers and Respects my fellow Pashtuns/Afghans and Pakistanis.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I would like to make an adjustment to our terminology. To avoid any confusion and potentially making the wrong group annoyed/angry. The world "Afghan" has been used as a synonym for Pakhtoons, for centuries. Thus its synonymous to Pakistani Pakhtoons too.

Now, just because one country choose to call itself "Afghanistan" doesn't make the world "Afghan" synonymous with that one country, alone. Just like how Romania calls itself, that but it does not make them Romans.

When the people of Afghanistan or the puppet regime of Afghanistan acts like a snake against Pakistan. Then we see people calling them, Afghans and hurling insults at them, but infact when you use that terminology it hurts us Pakistani Pakhtoons too. It also causes alot of confusion with both sides and could potentially lead to unwanted circumstances.

A recommendation form an Afghan myself, would be to use the terminology that us Pakistani Pakhtoons use for the people that hail from Afghanistan. We refer to anyone from Afghanistan as being a "Kabuli". Pronounced as "Kabul-eh" or plural as "kabulie". Pronounced as "Kabul-ee"

This world has the same meaning as calling someone from Egypt, Egyptian or a person from china as cheeni. So I would like everyone here to adopt this terminology so to avoid any confusions.

Thank you,

Great post. I hope people here on PDF take note. Your point about Roman and Romania is very valid.

@Mangus Ortus Novem Thanks for your clarification.

 

[Kabira]

Its good that you are saying this. I myself being a Punjabi did not know this until a couple of years ago and have since used Afghanistani. If people from my part of the country use the word Afghan with malice it certainly is not meant towards Pakistani Pakhtuns as i can myself attest to, since i used the word Afghan once upon a time. Pakhtuns simply need to tell the other Pakistani ethnic groups how they feel about this like you are doing right now.

Another thing. Pakistan should eventually appropriate the term Afghan. The A in our name stands for Afghan, and there are far more Afghans in Pakistan than there are in Kabulistan.

You never heard before bcz it only become issue after Pakistan started taking action against corrupt Nadra and blocking CNIC of Afghan refugees.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Interesting thing btw is that always pashtoons whether called this or afghan have been quoted with their principle way of life that is always called "PUSHTOONWALI" and never Afghanwali so logically the base for word "pushtoon" stands strong. Also "pukhtoon ye or yum" is how we introduce and identify ourselves even amongst us on day to day basis. Ironically the "Mein Afghan hun" propaganda scheme and so called PTM is pushtoon TM, and not afghan TM lols. Every single human right voilation call when potraying this ethnicity as victim uses the word pushtun and so on and so forth. The point is "I am inclined towards pushtun or pakhtun" and don't buy afghan terminology as it stands. We all get to make our choices. I just lay down mine with the details of why I think so.
Cheers and Respects my fellow Pashtuns/Afghans and Pakistanis.

It's not for you to buy or not to buy. As it stands it's the most formal way of addressing us. Think of it as this way. There was rome and there were Roman's as the time went on they were referred to as byzantine, but they were still historically Roman. Thus is the case with the word Aghan. This is not open to discussion btw, this is who we are and always will be.

My point in opening this thread is for everyone in pakistan to adopt a knew terminology for the people of Afghanistan. That one nation alone doesn't have the right to steal our name.

@Pakhtoon yum my dear YoungPak,

Iqbal, my Teacher, knew Afghan, Afghania so much better than us... I have a tender sopt for Afghans... those who are part of Wadi e Sind ... as narrated in Iqbal's poetry.

The trouble strarted with the first AfghanWar and terrorism spread in Pakistan through Khad/RAW/KGB... they used to murder even childeren with hammer.. so reaction is emotional one out of pain... then came heroin...

Second AfghanWar did us more harm... My Pakhtoon/Afgani suffered the most... TTP killed more Pakhtoon... and I am not Pathan myself... more like a kin!

However, I only see all Paks as Paks... be it AfroPaks or green eyed white skinned GBs.

We are Paks, Pak is OurLand.

YoungPaks like yourself need to take it forward.

I hope and pray that there be Peace in Afghanistan... or at least in Afghania and we can build comprehensive trade with OurBretheren....

Down the road.. with mutal interdependence in trade... I wish to see a standardised education system among us... who knows... one day we can become a confederation with Afghania... so many of our troubles will end that day.

Regardless, I shall NEVER accept anyone's claim on OurLand... even if we have to eliminate all those claiming it. ​

A in Pakistan is for Afghania... as Pakistan emerges.. Afghania is OurGateway to CentralAsia.

I have NO problem calling PakPakhtoons Afghan.. however, I have problem with current Afghanistan... hence, to avoid any confusion... I shall stick with Pakhtoon... as Pakhtoons are PakPostive even those who live in Afghanistan...

Pakistan belongs to ALL Paks... from AfroPaks to GBs... together we are the Inheritors of One of the Greatest Civlisation.... PakCivilisation...

PakistanZindabad

@Indus Pakistan

Agreed but please refer to my above post.

This term of Pakhtoons being called Afghan is Nonnegotiable so do adopt the new terminology. We will not have our historical name thrown aside just because other ethnicities are too lazy to differentiate.