Tejas Successfully Test Fires Beyond Visual Range Missile

[jaatki]

Thank you.

Absolutely. The difference was so clear when Tejas achieved stability instantly whereas the other plane did half a roll.

Anyway this does not matter so much in a weapon release but may matter more in a dogfight and certainly in containing pilot workload and fatigue. We are even discussing it here because we are on a forum where logic, evidence, history, anthropology, law, reason, numbers and reasonableness gets trumped by chest thumping every day.

I agree, dogfights are intense, hence planes need to have quick recovery to attack once more, India has a good set of close WVR....and no country in asia can deny that, we have the best of russia, israel and france.....

 

[GR!FF!N]

Tejas will use both Derby and Derby ER,along with Astra and R-77.

 

[kṣamā]

Thank you.

Absolutely. The difference was so clear when Tejas achieved stability instantly whereas the other plane did half a roll.

Anyway this does not matter so much in a weapon release but may matter more in a dogfight and certainly in containing pilot workload and fatigue. We are even discussing it here because we are on a forum where logic, evidence, history, anthropology, law, reason, numbers and reasonableness gets trumped by chest thumping every day.

Dude you just dropped a week long homework for that poor fellow, he will spend all his time looking up these words than scoring cheap shots at Tejas.

 

[CriticalThought]

What a load of hogwash. There is no FBW in play here - the Tejas' elevons are not even engaging. Given the slight roll, the aircraft is returning back to trim because of inherent stable design. My whole point is that if at such low speeds a tiny turbulence is causing it to roll, what will happen at high speeds. Aircraft design is not just about a 'delta wing', it is also about load distribution and the distribution on this high composite usage aircraft doesn't look up to par.

As for the rest of 'wingtip vortices' and what nots, stop copy pasting from the internet and pick up a book on aerodynamics. It will do you good.

@jaatki et al.

Sir like your name its logical, we cannot completely remove wing tip vortices or lift created by fluid due to angle of attack, fly by wire just compensates for the losses, but still tejas was so stable, but jf rolled towards right due to wing tip vortices and the lift created by fluid(air), when the area of missile was filled with high pressure air....

Stop spreading hogwash on the forum. Wingtip vortex my foot, the aircrafts in both videos are flying at reasonable speeds to avoid creating unnecessary effects because in both cases the missiles are in the process of being integrated. You don't want interference from other aerodynamic effects to mix with the behavior of the system under test at this point.

 

[BABA AGHORI]

What a load of hogwash. There is no FBW in play here - the Tejas' elevons are not even engaging. Given the slight roll, the aircraft is returning back to trim because of inherent stable design. My whole point is that if at such low speeds a tiny turbulence is causing it to roll, what will happen at high speeds. Aircraft design is not just about a 'delta wing', it is also about load distribution and the distribution on this high composite usage aircraft doesn't look up to par.

As for the rest of 'wingtip vortices' and what nots, stop copy pasting from the internet and pick up a book on aerodynamics. It will do you good.

@jaatki et al.



Stop spreading hogwash on the forum. Wingtip vortex my foot, the aircrafts in both videos are flying at reasonable speeds to avoid creating unnecessary effects because in both cases the missiles are in the process of being integrated. You don't want interference from other aerodynamic effects to mix with the behavior of the system under test at this point.

Modern fighter jets have unstable design to make it more agile. With Inherent stable design it would be really difficult to make sharp turns isn't it ?

 

[NirmalKrish]

Was it G2A BVR?

Really

Light combat aircraft Tejas today "successfully" test fired an air-to-air missile, paving the way for powering the indigenously-built aircraft with missiles having beyond visual range capabilities (BVR).

Your telling you did of even read the first paragraph

That's how you do it:

Threads on Tejas not Jf17 for god sakes

 

[jaatki]

What a load of hogwash. There is no FBW in play here - the Tejas' elevons are not even engaging. Given the slight roll, the aircraft is returning back to trim because of inherent stable design. My whole point is that if at such low speeds a tiny turbulence is causing it to roll, what will happen at high speeds. Aircraft design is not just about a 'delta wing', it is also about load distribution and the distribution on this high composite usage aircraft doesn't look up to par.

As for the rest of 'wingtip vortices' and what nots, stop copy pasting from the internet and pick up a book on aerodynamics. It will do you good.

@jaatki et al.



Stop spreading hogwash on the forum. Wingtip vortex my foot, the aircrafts in both videos are flying at reasonable speeds to avoid creating unnecessary effects because in both cases the missiles are in the process of being integrated. You don't want interference from other aerodynamic effects to mix with the behavior of the system under test at this point.

Come on all aircrafts go through a test at subsonic, sonic and supersonic speeds, you must know that mach number is not some fixed value, but changes for every fluid, in our case its air, and flying objects have very high pressure under their wings, you must be familiar with Magnus effect? The upper side of the wings generally have low pressure, and deltas have a very good shape to reduce induced drag, what does Jf 17 have?less area, more turbulence just at the tips and more induced drag?and about rolling and pitching, tejas was flying at supersonic speeds....and its no copy pasting, students dont need to copy past, tejas is unstable and its FBW is quite good at speeds greater than mach 1.2, and about load distribution, yes load distribution is a factor, since tejas was carrying just 2 missiles and not fuel tanks and bombs, its obvious that plane would not be going through load distribution problem as you stated, the wing loading was not at max, and to further clear your case, pilots launch missiles and bombs in a symmetry, that means they fire or release loads on both sides one after the other, inorder to maintain the balance....

 

[CriticalThought]

Modern fighter jets have unstable design to make it more agile. With Inherent stable design it would be really difficult to make sharp turns isn't it ?

It is unstable longitudinally but not laterally. An inherent laterally unstable design would be anhedral.

Come on all aircrafts go through a test at subsonic, sonic and supersonic speeds, you must know that mach number is not some fixed value, but changes for every fluid, in our case its air, and flying objects have very high pressure under their wings, you must be familiar with Magnus effect? The upper side of the wings generally have low pressure, and deltas have a very good shape to reduce induced drag, what does Jf 17 have?less area, more turbulence just at the tips and more induced drag?and about rolling and pitching, tejas was flying at supersonic speeds....and its no copy pasting, students dont need to copy past, tejas is unstable and its FBW is quite good at speeds greater than mach 1.2, and about load distribution, yes load distribution is a factor, since tejas was carrying just 2 missiles and not fuel tanks and bombs, its obvious that plane would not be going through load distribution problem as you stated, the wing loading was not at max, and to further clear your case, pilots launch missiles and bombs in a symmetry, that means they fire or release loads on both sides one after the other, inorder to maintain the balance....

You are not answering the main question I have raised. The Tejas' delta wings provide more momentum around the longitudinal axis and it looks as if at high speeds turbulence can easily cause it go into a spin because it doesn't have enough counter-weight being such a light weight aircraft.

The JF-17, being a regular, run of the mill tapered wing aircraft simply doesn't suffer from these problems.

 

[jaatki]

It is unstable longitudinally but not laterally. An inherent laterally unstable design would be anhedral.



You are not answering the main question I have raised. The Tejas' delta wings provide more momentum around the longitudinal axis and it looks as if at high speeds turbulence can easily cause it go into a spin because it doesn't have enough counter-weight being such a light weight aircraft.

The JF-17, being a regular, run of the mill tapered wing aircraft simply doesn't suffer from these problems.

You need to learn that induced drag is a more related to aspect ratio and angle of attack, and if you have longer and thin wings the induced drag at high speed will be less.....tejas has longer wing span and aspect ratio, this is the answer, JF 17 has less wing span and corresponding area, thus induced drag due to short wing area creates too much induced drag on wings thus the following lift caused by wing tip vortices interferes with boundry layer separation, as a results, when it fires the missile, the induced drag interferes with boundry layer separation, due to early separation the turbulence is high and thats the reason why JF 17 rolls on its sides....if launched from right wing tip, it would roll anticlockwise and if launched from left wing it would roll clockwise, and for tejas, tejas is unstable at mach speed higher thab 1.2 that is for temperature at 40000 feet is approx -56.7 and corresponding speed of the aircraft at this altitude for which tejas goes unstable is 1265.57km/hr.....i have taken r to be 287....
And JF 17 rolls only when firing missiles and not when flying normally, tejas is unstable design and FBW system takeover after reaching mach 1.2

 

[Fledgingwings]

How many tejas in service?

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Another step towards the right direction.
@sancho where are you man. Been missing you.

 

[el nino]

Tejss unstable flight control system like typhoon. Rafale and gripen

Thunder stable design like older fighters