Tejas far behind competitors, not enough to protect Indian skies: IAF

[Indian Jatt]

Worthy enough for the IAF?

If JF 17 is Worthy enough for PAF, then Tejas with all it's capabilities is much better for IAF then flying old Mig 21's, IAF should learn for the PLAAF and PAF to respect the country's resources and availability of the same, IAF has gone complete bonkers, they only want rafales....

India can't distinguish between research and development vs manufacturing and production. They assume once r&d has completed there won't be any problem. But they are now facing technical delays not anticipated as they assume that manufacturing is a smooth sailing. Another example of India not thinking things through.

Give us some space, we are new to all this it's just 10 years or so that we have really started to manufacture things on our own.
IAM aware that India lags far behind China when it comes to R&D but it's a habit or we can say work culture that Indians need to get used to....

 

[GURU DUTT]

India can't distinguish between research and development vs manufacturing and production. They assume once r&d has completed there won't be any problem. But they are now facing technical delays not anticipated as they assume that manufacturing is a smooth sailing. Another example of India not thinking things through.

we are in research and devlopment mode as per tejas /LCA right now and getting ready for mass production mode

line one at banglore is already working full steam (thats 16 fighter per annum )while line two in nashik has just come on line and once its properlly run in and gets into full production mode ( thats 18 fighter per annum ) we cann make 34 LCAs per year and once whole production quota on su-MKI is over that line too will be dedicated to production of LCA that is 26 more fighter meaning 34+26 thats around 2019 end to mid 2020 which pretty decent target so no hurries for us

 

[ashok321]

HAL LCA Tejas- An unrealised opportunity

Tejas is a 4+ generation, supersonic, highly maneuverable, multi-role, smallest and lightest in its class contemporary combat aircraft designed for the Indian Air Force designed and developed by DRDO. It is considered ‘game changer’ for India’s air defense preparedness.
The LCA has been designed and developed by a consortium of five aircraft research, design, production and product support organizations pooled by the Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), under Department of Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO). Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is the Principal Partner in the design and fabrication of the LCA and its integration leading to flight testing.

But There are certain mischievous elements within the bureaucracy, armed services, media and political class who are hooked onto an ecosystem that thrives on importing defence items to fulfill our obvious needs by injudicious expenditure of precious national wealth.

All the above mentioned entities work in tandem with one another to suppress the indigenous defence ecosystem. Another episode of this complicity came out a few days back in the form of a report in India today which quotes “sources” claiming the IAFs mistrust in the LCA program despite an entire aerospace base having evolved around it! Such an industry will serve the armed service faithfully for decades to come and the civilian spinoffs of such technology is obvious to even laypeople.

Our post attempts to debunk some of the lies thrown about in the article

1. LCA requires greater maintenance – It is a known fact that aircraft at the beginning of their service lives have small glitches that escape even the most stringent manufacturing processes. Why would the F-22 have problems in its OBOGS that led to the loss of a pilot’s life along with the plane if USA has the best aerospace system in the world? The USAF is more than willing to sit down with Lockheed Martin and fix any issues. The Gripen too faced two losses during development and 7 in service. Compared to the MiG-21 the LCA engine can be replaced in just 45 minutes as per the project director of LCA.
   
   
2. Inferior range and payload capacity – Empty weight and payload capacity of LCA are 6560kg and 4000kg, while the same for F-16 is 8960kg and 6000kg and Gripen is at 6800kg and 5300kg. Dimensionally it is smaller too. In this case the IAF gets exactly what it wants – a MiG-21 replacement. The lower empty weight can give it a higher T/W ratio desirable for an interceptor. Improvements can be expected in the Mk2. LCA is even as good as the Mirage-2000 which is being upgraded at a heavy cost of USD 49 million per airframe. We can buy a Tejas for that cost!
   
3. LCA alone can’t defend Indian skies – Of course it can’t! Neither can the F-22, Su-57 or the F-18. Every jet is optimised for a specific role. They all work together to achieve airspace security. Tejas specialises in a high sortie rate that enables it as a point defender of airbases and a CAS platform in India’s Cold Start Doctrine.
   

Tejas is an aerodynamically unstable tailless compound delta-wing configuration, optimized primarily for maneuverability and agility. Designed to meet the tactical requirements of a modern air force, Tejas is a multi-role aircraft capable of comprehensive air superiority and air defense roles
The RCS of Tejas has been brought down significantly by modifying shape aspects within the limitations set by aerodynamics. Tejas got one of the best RCS value in the entire 4th generation fighters. Publically available figure is 0.5m2.

LCA is designed with stealth features within the airframe. The Y-shaped air intakes shield the engine fan blades from radar waves and the blended wing-body layout enhances aerodynamic properties alongside reducing the RCS.

ADA has given the IAF a plane that has performed well over 3000 test flights without snags and is highly praised by pilots as being easier to handle than the Mirage-2000. Thus the LCA Mk1 itself is a world beater. The Mk2 will also boast of an Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite with an On-Board Oxygen Generation System. Thus both survivability and endurance will increase.

Beeing Multirole,cheap to build and operate , LCA Tejas and its variants are key to IAF operating economically in peace and war time . Enabling IAF to keep operating at a high tempo , keep pilots better trained and operationally superior. Resulting in a sustainable peace time & wartime advantage.
Finally Tejas is an indigenous fighter aircraft. We can make as many as we need, when we need . The source code of the flight & weapon control system software is proprietary and open to integration with all weapons . We can modify the fighter, change configuration and deploy at will.`

Any modern fighter is only as good as the weapons she can deliver on target. The Tejas is designed to carry a veritable plethora of air to air, air to surface, precision guided and standoff weaponry. In the air to air arena, the Tejas carries long range beyond visual range weapons, with highly agile high off-boresight missiles to tackle any close combat threat. A wide variety of air to ground munitions and an extremely accurate navigation and attack system allow it to prosecute surface targets over land or at sea with unparalleled accuracy, giving the Tejas true multi/swing role capability.

The IAF should accept the LCA into service post-haste since the fighter is sufficiently matured for war operations. Even the Rafale when entering service had only air to air capability. Software and hardware improvements are done throughout the lifespan of the plane. This concept is called concurrent development. The Open Architecture Software in the fighter is in support of this concept. The Gripen has a combat radius similar to the Tejas despite being dimensionally bigger (~500km), and it isn’t fair to compare them both with F-16 (800km) since it is much larger! Tejas will be upgraded over decades of its service life and will become even more potent in the future! Export orders for this jet are a certainty.

LCA program isn’t merely about a fighter jet. It is about the synchronised effort between research institutes, defence services and manufacturers that has given fruit. The same arrangement can be replicated for various types of cargo, bomber and unmanned aircraft projects in the future.

 

[hussain0216]

now the point is tejas is already under testing with israeli ELTA EL 2052 GaN AESA radar and work in full swing on a difent new prototype to reduce wieght by 500-800 Kg and giving it a new landing gear meaning more speed and endurence and lesser drag and with latest GaN AESA based EW+ECM+internal jammers and avionics suite its gonna be as good as any other fighter out there much much better than anything PAF has or wants to have and full production starting in mid 2018 of LCA MK1A (16+18 per annum) so doont worry we have already placed an order for 123 of those worry about your nation as there are 127 jaguars with EL2052 AESA radar & I derby ER & Python5 combo + 125 Bosons +63 upfraded Mig29s + 54 upgraded Mirage2000s+ 272 MKIs backed by 3+2 Phalcon AWACS & 3 DRDO AWACS & 18 Spy SATS ... so tejas is not alone for PAF to worry about

All this is bull plop when your own indian airforce rips the plane apart

 

[GURU DUTT]

All this is bull plop when your own indian airforce rips the plane apart

thats what you think 123 LCA MK1 & MK1A already on order get your facts right

 

[hussain0216]

thats what you think 123 LCA MK1 & MK1A already on order get your facts right
View attachment 436383

Its not what I think, its what the IAF thinks

You fanboys have bust a gut to try and defend the Tejas but reality is the IAF have ripped the jet apart
They know its true worth, capabilities and performance and they know its very very poor

All you fanboys have is words about derby this and Gan that, none of these things have saved the Tejas, its still a poor plane

As Shakespeare said in Midsummer's nights dream "You cant shine a turd lads"

 

[GURU DUTT]

Its not what I think, its what the IAF thinks

You fanboys have bust a gut to try and defend the Tejas but reality is the IAF have ripped the jet apart
They know its true worth, capabilities and performance and they know its very very poor

All you fanboys have is words about derby this and Gan that, none of these things have saved the Tejas, its still a poor plane

As Shakespeare said in Midsummer's nights dream "You cant shine a turd lads"

well even thats what IAF "thinks " did the journo gave any IAF top honchoes interview or anything like that

lolzz same IAF gave order for 123 jets for over 5 billion US dollars and had the same IAF against the idea in the first place why would they order it ... use your brains

so kiddo thing is LCA MK1A as it is with GaN AESA based radar and internal avionics and EW+ECM+Jammerr suits with latest seroes of Israeli Python 5 WVR(HOBS) & DERBY & i DERBY ER BVR and LITENING 3 G3 LDP with all kinds or LGBs and PGMs & SDBs & GBs is more than adequate for the job it was desigend for and that too in less tha 40million dollars and a overall proejct cost of less than 2.3 billion dollars we indians are more than happy with the deal as it has given a full ecosystem for next gen fighters and a full aviotion industry in india

 

[hussain0216]

well even thats what IAF "thinks " did the journo gave any IAF top honchoes interview or anything like that

lolzz same IAF gave order for 123 jets for over 5 billion US dollars and had the same IAF against the idea in the first place why would they order it ... use your brains

so kiddo thing is LCA MK1A as it is with GaN AESA based radar and internal avionics and EW+ECM+Jammerr suits with latest seroes of Israeli Python 5 WVR(HOBS) & DERBY & i DERBY ER BVR and LITENING 3 G3 LDP with all kinds or LGBs and PGMs & SDBs & GBs is more than adequate for the job it was desigend for and that too in less tha 40million dollars and a overall proejct cost of less than 2.3 billion dollars we indians are more than happy with the deal as it has given a full ecosystem for next gen fighters and a full aviotion industry in india

123 jets were forced on IAF by government, IAF wanted yo dump the plane years ago

IAF shredded the planes performance everything else is fanboy noise

You can make statements against us but its YOUR OWN AIRFORCE that hates the plane

 

[GURU DUTT]

123 jets were forced on IAF by government, IAF wanted yo dump the plane years ago

IAF shredded the planes performance everything else is fanboy noise

You can make statements against us but its YOUR OWN AIRFORCE that hates the plane

well its funny to hear enemies of india and prime oposition of IAF trying despartelly to fight IAF's case and get it wolds most expensive fighter jets ... WOW

as for performence LCA MK1 as of now has HOBS & MMR-BVR & LDP-LGB & 4 chanell digital fly by wire controls and 45% of its body wieght and 98% of skin area in carbon composites which your ladla JF 17 B dose not even have now and wants in Blk3

and if that was not enough unlike your JF17 tejas is tested to be oprational and can carry and take off with maximum internal fuel load of 2.45 tonne and maximum weapons load of 3.5 tonne in all weathers and day and night from very short runways from even very high altitude runways like leh or ladhak

 

[hussain0216]

well its funny to hear enemies of india and prime oposition of IAF trying despartelly to fight IAF's case and get it wolds most expensive fighter jets ... WOW

as for performence LCA MK1 as of now has HOBS & MMR-BVR & LDP-LGB & 4 chanell digital fly by wire controls and 45% of its body wieght and 98% of skin area in carbon composites which your ladla JF 17 B dose not even have now and wants in Blk3

and if that was not enough unlike your JF17 tejas is tested to be oprational and can carry and take off with maximum internal fuel load of 2.45 tonne and maximum weapons load of 3.5 tonne in all weathers and day and night from very short runways from even very high altitude runways like leh or ladhak

But the IAF dont believe you, they are the ones flying and dealing with the plane and they have humiliated the tejas project

They think its terrible and needs to be scrapped for a foreign jet

Now either you are a fanboy who lives in the make believe world of indian analysis based on stats, B.S and dramabazi
OR
IAF is a clown organisation who dont know what they are talking about, about the worlds greatest plane

As much as I think poorly of the IAF, I would accept their analysis that Tejas is rubbish to your fanboy ramblings of alleged prowess

 

[GURU DUTT]

But the IAF dont believe you, they are the ones flying and dealing with the plane and they have humiliated the tejas project

They think its terrible and needs to be scrapped for a foreign jet

Now either you are a fanboy who lives in the make believe world of indian analysis based on stats, B.S and dramabazi
OR
IAF is a clown organisation who dont know what they are talking about, about the worlds greatest plane

As much as I think poorly of the IAF, I would accept their analysis that Tejas is rubbish to your fanboy ramblings of alleged prowess

so now pakistanies like you will tell me what IAF wants and what they think lolzz do you know what PAF wants and what they have right now

apna ghar sambhalta nahi ....

 

[hussain0216]

so now pakistanies like you will tell me what IAF wants and what they think lolzz do you know what PAF wants and what they have right now

apna ghar sambhalta nahi ....

The IAF is telling you themselves what they want.
They have heaped badnami on Tejas and say its not good enough

Why are you blaming Pakistanis for the IAFs own analysis of Tejas

 

[GURU DUTT]

The IAF is telling you themselves what they want.
They have heaped badnami on Tejas and say its not good enough

Why are you blaming Pakistanis for the IAFs own analysis of Tejas

wow what a guy

thing is Tejas is not the only fighter IAF has for its future there are many like MKI , Mig29 & Mirage2000 , Jaguars and Mig21 & Mig27 and of course rafale and F16 Blk70/72 in pipe line

Tejas is just a POINT defnce fighter for home land security /goalkeeper which will or might not ever cross the indo pak border and will always fight or remain behind the shadpws of big boys of IAF

its to fill in the squadern numbers than anything else but even then each LCA can take twice the weapons load as that of a Mig21 bison to twice the combat radius in a single sortie and with GaN AESA based radar & EW+ECM +jammer suites it will become as leathel as Grippen E or F16 version V with shorter range so its only the TRP hungry press and some jilted MOD baboons who dint get there kickbacks who in name of some "so called IAF sources " are making it all up but pakistanies like you still can have wet dreams

but make no mistake your PAF has Tejas as last of its worries or say least to worry about

 

[hussain0216]

wow what a guy

thing is Tajas is not the only fighter IAF has for its future there are many like MKI , Mig29 & Mirage2000 , Jaguars and Mig21 & Mig27 and of course rafale and F16 Blk70/72 in pipe line

Tejas is just a POINT defnce fighter for home land security /goalkeeper which will or might not ever cross the indo pak border and will always fight or remain behind the shadpws of big boys of IAF

its to fill in the squadern numbers than anything else but even then each LCA can take twice the load as that of a Mig21 bison to twice the combat radius in a single sortie and with GaN AESA based radar & EW+ECM +jammer suites it will become as leathel as Grippen E or F16 version V with shorter range so its only the TRP hungry press and some jilted MOD baboons who dint get there kickbacks who in name of some "so called IAF sources " are making it all up but pakistanies like you still can have wet dreams

but make no mistake your PAF has Tejas as last of its worries or say least to worry about

Great so Tejas is only for securing Tamil Naidu against Mermaid attack.

But IAF says its still not good enough even for that!

Because Tejas is so poor it cant do the job that it was intended for, so they need another single engine fighter

But Tejas is too much if a headache for even being a point fighter doing nothing but flying about because its such aexpensive maintenance headache for IAF, combine that with under an hour of flight time then IAF is categorically stating why indian government wants to put the Tejas weight around IAFs neck

Im sorry on this occasion I have to agree with the IAF analysis

 

[GURU DUTT]

Great so Tejas is only for securing Tamil Naidu against Mermaid attack.

But IAF says its still not good enough even for that!

Because Tejas is so poor it cant do the job that it was intended for, so they need another single engine fighter

But Tejas is too much if a headache for even being a point fighter doing nothing but flying about because its such aexpensive maintenance headache for IAF, combine that with under an hour of flight time then IAF is categorically stating why indian government wants to put the Tejas weight around IAFs neck

Im sorry on this occasion I have to agree with the IAF analysis

logic says when your enemy is more concerned about your future weapon than you and its developemnt then you are going on the right track and judging by pakistani despartion to belttle Tejas i guess we are doing just right

now we have just added or IAF has just induced two-three fighters in first squad more will follow we are not worried as its more that twice as capable in every sense to the fighter it replaces i mean Mig21 bisons and what started as a point defnce fighter has morphed into worlds smallest and most compact super sonik multi role jet fighter and the cheapest one at that with AESA so hardly any complaints