Tehreek-e-Taliban say no peace talks anytime soon

[Secur]

Well i wasn't trying to justify a Jihad against innoncent Muslims i want to clear that just telling you the narrative that the talibans present in order to attract people into joining them and your right wars do have casualties but since when have we been fighting this war and at what cost because if the threat is the same as i said that they would impose sharia then it might have happened a long time ago or it might have been suggested by the tribals that are being droned now. If they were fighting the US army alone it would end as they withdraw but they have declared a war against the government and the army and do you think that if all strategies have failed for years to eliminate them can you eliminate an ideology through sheer force? I think its time we use a different strategy instead of letting them continue with their killing machine.

I understand .

True , Taliban use the propaganda of Jihad against infidels to attract new recruits for the cause , there's no denial again . But the precise way in which the ideology needs to be targeted isn't this . We , cant stop the operation or the drone strikes . I posted some recommendation in another thread . A few of them were strict and tighter control over religious higher authorities and the religious institutions and their funding seeing the extent of radicalization in the society . Second , to push economic opportunities and literacy in the affected areas making it our first priority .

Well , Taliban have imposed their brand of Sharia in Swat and in other little areas of tribal areas which they control , a state within a state to be precise . Tell me , what choice was Musharraf left with , when a dozen people decided to bomb the WTC and were given refuge in Afghanistan by the regime , should he had let the country being bombed to stone age by the Americans who were in a rage in that time ? I must remind you that there are things and matter in which a leader be it political or military is left with ' little or no option ' . Unlike Afghanistan , we had/have everything to lose . About time for a new strategy , but its happening as more Pakistanis realize the dangers of radicalization and the Taliban terrorism , the change will come but in the meantime we have to continue the sheer force otherwise we will have a ' Swat ' repetition everywhere . What do you suggest ?

 

[Dillinger]

I understand .

True , Taliban use the propaganda of Jihad against infidels to attract new recruits for the cause , there's no denial again . But the precise way in which the ideology needs to be targeted isn't this . We , cant stop the operation or the drone strikes . I posted some recommendation in another thread . A few of them were strict and tighter control over religious higher authorities and the religious institutions and their funding seeing the extent of radicalization in the society . Second , to push economic opportunities and literacy in the affected areas making it our first priority .

Well , Taliban have imposed their brand of Sharia in Swat and in other little areas of tribal areas which they control , a state within a state to be precise . Tell me , what choice was Musharraf left with , when a dozen people decided to bomb the WTC and were given refuge in Afghanistan by the regime , should he had left the country being bombed to stone age by the Americans who were in a rage in that time ? I must remind you that there are things and matter in which a leader be it political or military is left with ' little or no option ' . Unlike Afghanistan , we had/have everything to lose . About time for a new strategy , but its happening as more Pakistanis realize the dangers of radicalization and the Taliban terrorism . What do you suggest ?

Logically, shouldn't the very idea that the talibs think that they are the sole interpreters of Sharia be un-Islamic? Last I checked..there are higher authorities such as the Masjid-al-haram and the associated clerics.

Besides the talibs must realize that if they keep at this for another 5 years..pretty much every sane fellow in Pakistan will begin to detest the very idea of sharia.

Very simplistic ideas...the above..but nonetheless true IMO.

The worst part is that when KSA itself can disassociate itself from this ideology on the world stage and domestically..then what problem do the "faithful" have in Pakistan? You shouldn't even be debating with dingbats who think this is religiously driven..that's just the pretext now. A better way to look at it in the broader context is that its a struggle for power..personal power for the likes of Mullah Omar and Hakimullah.. religion is only relevant when looking at the indoctrination of the foot soldiers no more- no less. Its the cannon fodder which feeds on such religious indoctrination..the leaders are drawn forward for personal gain. You had best demolish this myth that this fight is not one of personal gain for the talibs but rather an altruistic fight however misguided. It is not only "misguided" but also very much for clear personal gains.

 

[Aamna14]

I agree with your first solution it would indeed be helpful but how can you ensure any economic progress or improvement in literacy when the country is already burning and schools are prime targets of the talibans? It all can't take place until there is significant peace and also this is a long term solution to to educate the people and change mindsets but would only work when the situation considerably cools off. Secondly i do agree there are situations under which leaders don't have much to choose from but the point i want to make is that it wasn't our war Pakistani government once did block the NATO supplies so if the threat was so lethal we would have seen a full scale invasion but nothing happened at all not to mention there weren't such suicide attacks then as well was that step taken because Armed soldiers were targetted instead of innocent civilians? And if we could stand up and say we won't open the route due to the pressure of the Army shouldn't we do it for our people when they had hardly seen such bloodshed in those 8 months? I might be wrong but i seriously feel it will only do further damage instead of achieving any good.

I understand .

True , Taliban use the propaganda of Jihad against infidels to attract new recruits for the cause , there's no denial again . But the precise way in which the ideology needs to be targeted isn't this . We , cant stop the operation or the drone strikes . I posted some recommendation in another thread . A few of them were strict and tighter control over religious higher authorities and the religious institutions and their funding seeing the extent of radicalization in the society . Second , to push economic opportunities and literacy in the affected areas making it our first priority .

Well , Taliban have imposed their brand of Sharia in Swat and in other little areas of tribal areas which they control , a state within a state to be precise . Tell me , what choice was Musharraf left with , when a dozen people decided to bomb the WTC and were given refuge in Afghanistan by the regime , should he had let the country being bombed to stone age by the Americans who were in a rage in that time ? I must remind you that there are things and matter in which a leader be it political or military is left with ' little or no option ' . Unlike Afghanistan , we had/have everything to lose . About time for a new strategy , but its happening as more Pakistanis realize the dangers of radicalization and the Taliban terrorism , the change will come but in the meantime we have to continue the sheer force otherwise we will have a ' Swat ' repetition everywhere . What do you suggest ?

I agree with your first solution it would indeed be helpful but how can you ensure any economic progress or improvement in literacy when the country is already burning and schools are prime targets of the talibans? It all can't take place until there is significant peace and also this is a long term solution to to educate the people and change mindsets but would only work when the situation considerably cools off. Secondly i do agree there are situations under which leaders don't have much to choose from but the point i want to make is that it wasn't our war Pakistani government once did block the NATO supplies so if the threat was so lethal we would have seen a full scale invasion but nothing happened at all not to mention there weren't such suicide attacks then as well was that step taken because Armed soldiers were targetted instead of innocent civilians? And if we could stand up and say we won't open the route due to the pressure of the Army shouldn't we do it for our people when they had hardly seen such bloodshed in those 8 months? I might be wrong but i seriously feel it will only do further damage instead of achieving any good.

 

[Zarvan]

No need for any explanation . Your attempts at generalizing people and trying to provoke them are well known already .

We know there's a serious war of ideologies going on in the country , do you not follow me on every thread related to the War on Terror ? I salute the brave army soldiers who are fighting these religious psychopaths who want to impose their barbarism everywhere like Swat .

These statements are issued from time to time by Taliban , even if at times the Govt or the Army isn't even interested , the last time there was a warning for people to ' fear ' them . Now go check the meaning of ' attention seeking ' and apply the criteria . Remember just yesterday , I asked you to work on comprehension skills .

No need to pretend to be ' emotional ' . I know it just too well , Alas !



I would advise you to do the same because your beloved Taliban do not allow that in the areas they control . Maybe Govt will talk to them after they drop weapons . Otherwise the army operations will suffice in the long run . Already cleaned a lot of areas from these people , haven't we ? They look clean and well equipped because they are getting help from outside . A group which is scattered and cornered by the security forces and limited to North Waziristan mostly is in no position to dictate any terms .

Which idiot have told those areas are cleared Sir they are sitting at the outskirts of those areas neither they touch Army nor Army touch them Sir and the moment Army return from these areas they will be back

 

[Secur]

Which idiot have told those areas are cleared Sir they are sitting at the outskirts of those areas neither they touch Army nor Army touch them Sir and the moment Army return from these areas they will be back

And you talk of talking logics when there are people ready to deny even the ' realities on ground ' ?

@Dillinger

 

[Zarvan]

And you talk of talking logics when there are people ready to deny even the ' realities on ground ' ?

@Dillinger

Sir go check the reality yourself Swat Taliban are slowly returning back Sir they are now on the outskirts even Army has started to admit it Sir in other areas also not all of them fight they just leave the area so army can enter than remain in outskirts of those areas and when Army pulls back they return this thing is going on for past 10 years

 

[Dillinger]

And you talk of talking logics when there are people ready to deny even the ' realities on ground ' ?

@Dillinger

Oh I am sure that they have a presence in these areas..they might even have large dispersed groups, which insurgents often do, still operating. BUT that is poles apart from holding, ruling, dominating an area. To do the latter they will have to enter a drawn out conventional fight with the PA and the vipers..best of luck with that Zarvan sahib.

 

[tarrar]

There should be no peace talks with these corrupt, spineless & rented terrorists, when Pakistan Army can crush these rented bastards, so then why is PML-N & other political parties dying for peace talks? The fact that the people need to understand is these rented terrorists have no self aims & objectives everything they do is on their foreign bosses commands & orders. Crush these rented bastards & restore peace in Northern Areas that is the only solution.

Sri Lanka did the same with the terrorists, when those terrorists were near defeat they offered peace talks but Sri Lankan Govt. & Army rejected it & crushed them once & for all, the same should be done in Pakistan. Whenever these rented bastards offer peace talks it only means that they are hurt, loosing man power & they need space or time to regroup or reinforce & when these rented bastards reject peace talks it means they are back in strength. Spineless politicians know this & by doing stupid things it shows they have no love for Pakistan & they are not honest with Pakistan.

 

[Secur]

Logically, shouldn't the very idea that the talibs think that they are the sole interpreters of Sharia be un-Islamic? Last I checked..there are higher authorities such as the Masjid-al-haram and the associated clerics.

Besides the talibs must realize that if they keep at this for another 5 years..pretty much every sane fellow in Pakistan will begin to detest the very idea of sharia.

Very simplistic ideas...the above..but nonetheless true IMO.

The worst part is that when KSA itself can disassociate itself from this ideology on the world stage and domestically..then what problem do the "faithful" have in Pakistan? You shouldn't even be debating with dingbats who think this is religiously driven..that's just the pretext now. A better way to look at it in the broader context is that its a struggle for power..personal power for the likes of Mullah Omar and Hakimullah.. religion is only relevant when looking at the indoctrination of the foot soldiers no more- no less. Its the cannon fodder which feeds on such religious indoctrination..the leaders are drawn forward for personal gain. You had best demolish this myth that this fight is not one of personal gain for the talibs but rather an altruistic fight however misguided. It is not only "misguided" but also very much for clear personal gains.

Leave those logics aside , I explained that thing about clerics from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan in sufficient detail . They wont interfere here by any chance and the Mullahs wont give up their ' quest for dominance and power ' .

There's a thing and behavioral aspect of psychopaths that they think short term , they do not really have a solid long term plan in mind and trust me when I call them as such , it isn't only because I hate them .

Well , implemented to a small extent by the Govt too . Not enough though .

The Kingdom , my friend , has the black gold , it has Oil , even though it provided the funds for the Jihad against the communists and practically developed and nurtured the ideology and whole system of manipulation and control . There is another crucial difference , the Kingdom has a single religious authority loyal to the King and Monarchy , the same isn't true for Pakistan . When there are ' God's viceroy ' for every towns and cities ready to try for some power . What is it if not the personal power quest ? The ignorant masses do not understand it as such and think there's some sort of Jihad going on with the savior who will come at last moment . The graveyard remains a graveyard in the meantime .

 

[Dillinger]

Leave those logics aside , I explained that thing about clerics from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan in sufficient detail . They wont interfere here by any chance and the Mullahs wont give up their ' quest for dominance and power ' .

There's a thing and behavioral aspect of psychopaths that they think short term , they do not really have a solid long term plan in mind and trust me when I call them as such , it isn't only because I hate them .

Well , implemented to a small extent by the Govt too . Not enough though .

The Kingdom , my friend , has the black gold , it has Oil , even though it provided the funds for the Jihad against the communists and practically developed and nurtured the ideology and whole system of manipulation and control . There is another crucial difference , the Kingdom has a single religious authority loyal to the King and Monarchy , the same isn't true for Pakistan . When there are ' God's viceroy ' for every towns and cities ready to try for some power . What is it if not the personal power quest ? The ignorant masses do not understand it as such and think there's some sort of Jihad going on with the savior who will come at last moment . The graveyard remains a graveyard in the meantime .

Oh I wasn't bringing up the Kingdom's clerics like I did in the previous context, but rather in the narrow sense of arguing with the PDF "faithfuls". After all, them being the privileged few fundoos with access to such exalted amenities..surely they at least can open their eyes and carefully observe their Saudi masters.

 

[Secur]

I agree with your first solution it would indeed be helpful but how can you ensure any economic progress or improvement in literacy when the country is already burning and schools are prime targets of the talibans? It all can't take place until there is significant peace and also this is a long term solution to to educate the people and change mindsets but would only work when the situation considerably cools off. Secondly i do agree there are situations under which leaders don't have much to choose from but the point i want to make is that it wasn't our war Pakistani government once did block the NATO supplies so if the threat was so lethal we would have seen a full scale invasion but nothing happened at all not to mention there weren't such suicide attacks then as well was that step taken because Armed soldiers were targetted instead of innocent civilians? And if we could stand up and say we won't open the route due to the pressure of the Army shouldn't we do it for our people when they had hardly seen such bloodshed in those 8 months? I might be wrong but i seriously feel it will only do further damage instead of achieving any good.

I would said that if only I haven't seen it being implemented to a small extent by the Govt . Nobody can ensure the economic progress but yet some employment opportunities can be provided along with education which is being done as we speak . Sure , the schools are being targeted but a few hit and run attacks aren't hurting the efforts significantly . Then , Mr.Musharraf was facing the exact same sort of situation in '01 . What Pakistan once did , was @Dillinger was what explained to me as a thing or two about red lines of the army . Are you sure that suicide attacks went down at that time , because I have information to the contrary ? What should we do for the people , tell me , you are asking for a new strategy without explaining the strategy itself

I have given my opinion .

 

[Secur]

Oh I wasn't bringing up the Kingdom's clerics like I did in the previous context, but rather in the narrow sense of arguing with the PDF "faithfuls". After all, them being the privileged few fundoos with access to such exalted amenities..surely they at least can open their eyes and carefully observe their Saudi masters.

The privileged few ' PDF ' fundoos do not even matter in the big picture , they are few in number you see though they represent the exact mindset . Excellent specimens for research , I say !

 

[Dillinger]

The privileged few ' PDF ' fundoos do not even matter in the big picture , they are few in number you see though they represent the exact mindset . Excellent specimens for research , I say !

Not really...observing them, which would be essential for research, would kill you due to the sheer mind-numbing boredom of it. I swear, all of them can faithfully mimic a broken tape with such accuracy that it is positively scary.

 

[Secur]

Not really...observing them, which would be essential for research, would kill you due to the sheer mind-numbing boredom of it. I swear, all of them can faithfully mimic a broken tape with such accuracy that it is positively scary.

I need to sleep now , but I will tell you a story about a friend of mine in the usual place

Quite interesting , the changing thought patterns resulting in irrational behavior .

 

[Dillinger]

I need to sleep now , but I will tell you a story about a friend of mine in the usual place

Quite interesting , the changing thought patterns resulting in irrational behavior .

Goodnight brother. May you dream of contorting djins.