Tehreek-e-Taliban say no peace talks anytime soon

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Do you welcome the ' Taliban Sharia ' like the Swatis in such case * assuming that really the whole Pashtuns of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa from well all walks of life want peace talks * ?

Aware of the sacrifices of the people of that province and we salute their bravery . All the reason to not talk with these militants because face it there's nothing that one can talk on .

So abolish democracy , tear apart the constitution , get isolated Internationally by cutting links with China and U.S , get the Taliban leader in his utopian ' one man ' rule selected by his designated pious people , impose the barbaric and intolerant interpretation of the religion , curb freedom to every last extent and become another Afghanistan because that is their wishlist ? Is this your choice really ?

@Armstrong Can you add more to that ?

I will tell you a simple solution...enforce sharia in Pakistan , keep democracy...we are all muslims alhamdulilah and i am sure no proper muslim will object to sharia for which this country was created....taliban will simply vanish.

 

[Secur]

I will tell you a simple solution.

I will tell you a simple fact .

No religious party has ever gained the majority to form the Govt alone and most importantly that required to legislate in the history of Pakistan . They have form alliances , single province Govt's sure and with army's help at times but never by themselves ! What does that tell you then ?

If the Pakistanis vote for Sharia next for some religious parties , why not , I would say . If Taliban have so much support , they can try their luck in elections in Pakistan and bring the system through the democratic process . But not an imposition on the gun point , you see . That is something not acceptable

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I will tell you a simple fact .

No religious party has ever gained the majority to form the Govt alone and most importantly that required to legislate in the history of Pakistan . They have form alliances , single province Govt's sure and with army's help at times but never by themselves ! What does that tell you then ?

If the Pakistanis vote for Sharia next for some religious parties , why not , I would say . If Taliban have so much support , they can try their luck in elections in Pakistan and bring the system through the democratic process . But not an imposition on the gun point , you see . That is something not acceptable .

Are you not a muslim?

 

[Secur]

Are you not a muslim?

I am stating a fact . If majority of the Pakistanis support it , I have no problem whatsoever .

Why get personal and ask if I am a Muslim ? This isn't a question of faith and belief but that of fact .

Because in areas such as North Waziristan people are being further marginalized by droning. Naming a problem is one thing but addressing the root cause of the problem ultimately helps to eliminate it. We can't weaken them ever if they hold a stance as powerful as Jihad and include the Pakistani government in the process because they support a foreign army. Without officially disengaging from this war they would continue attacking Pakistani people its only when Pakistani government refuses to let its own people be droned and attacked by a foreign power would we truly able to achieve peace.

Thanks for your reply first of all . But it doesn't address the situation in any way . The drone attacks are a grey area , violation of sovereignty and resulting in collateral damage , but approved by the Govt and resulting in significant killing of Taliban top leaders and commanders . At the moment , we cant afford to engage militants in that area , a more acceptable and better thing is to get the drone by ourselves and operate it or just go in there and eliminate these militants . The problem always is because of the porous Durand Line . Militants cross into Afghanistan when they are being cornered or being nailed hard by the security forces and come back when the situation somewhat cools down . Now , I know the extent of radicalization and the problems the drone has been causing , but we do not really have any other choice . The Americans are leaving in 2014 and it isn't that far now and you will see if these people stop these activities but I will tell you , they wont , even when the Govt disengages from this War on Terror after the withdrawal .

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I am stating a fact . If majority of the Pakistanis support it , I have no problem whatsoever .

Why get personal and ask if I am a Muslim ? This isn't a question of faith and belief but that of fact .



Thanks for your reply first of all . But it doesn't address the situation in any way . The drone attacks are a grey area , violation of sovereignty and resulting in collateral damage , but approved by the Govt and resulting in significant killing of Taliban top leaders and commanders . At the moment , we cant afford to engage militants in that area , a more acceptable and better thing is to get the drone by ourselves and operate it or just go in there and eliminate these militants . The problem always is because of the porous Durand Line . Militants cross into Afghanistan when they are being cornered or being nailed hard by the security forces and come back when the situation somewhat cools down . Now , I know the extent of radicalization and the problems the drone has been causing , but we do not really have any other choice . The Americans are leaving in 2014 and it isn't that far now and you will see if these people stop these activities but I will tell you , they wont , even when the Govt disengages from this War on Terror after the withdrawal .

I cant talk with whole pakistan. Right now you are talking with me and i am interested in your stance. I am getting the vibe that you are against enforcement of sharia in Pakistan...if thats not the case then be loud and clear....
If taliban is fitna then why i should be sympathetic to people like you who are allergic to islam and very thought of sharia freak them out.....Qayamat nazdeek hey aur uski nishanian nazar aa rahi hain.

 

[Aamna14]

I am stating a fact . If majority of the Pakistanis support it , I have no problem whatsoever .

Why get personal and ask if I am a Muslim ? This isn't a question of faith and belief but that of fact .



Thanks for your reply first of all . But it doesn't address the situation in any way . The drone attacks are a grey area , violation of sovereignty and resulting in collateral damage , but approved by the Govt and resulting in significant killing of Taliban top leaders and commanders . At the moment , we cant afford to engage militants in that area , a more acceptable and better thing is to get the drone by ourselves and operate it or just go in there and eliminate these militants . The problem always is because of the porous Durand Line . Militants cross into Afghanistan when they are being cornered or being nailed hard by the security forces and come back when the situation somewhat cools down . Now , I know the extent of radicalization and the problems the drone has been causing , but we do not really have any other choice . The Americans are leaving in 2014 and it isn't that far now and you will see if these people stop these activities but I will tell you , they wont , even when the Govt disengages from this War on Terror after the withdrawal .

Well the point is that you said yourself that drones are causing radicalization and we don't have a choice does that mean we can drone innocent people in the process of targetting suspects? Because its more innocent people dying than the militants. Secondly you say even after disengaging from this war they won't stop their activities but the point is they have never caused any real problem in terms of imposing an Islamic system on our people before this war began and what i meant was that this stance of Jihad fuels their actions and provides them with the popular support they need to continue their attacks.

 

[Secur]

I cant talk with whole pakistan. Right now you are talking with me and i am interested in your stance. I am getting the vibe that you are against enforcement of sharia in Pakistan...if thats not the case then be loud and clear. If taliban is fitna then why i should be sympathetic to people like you who are allergic to islam and very thought of sharia freak them out.....Qayamat nazdeek hey aur uski nishanian nazar aa rahi hain.

I am not asking you to . Try not to twist things here . I stated a well known ' fact ' about Pakistanis . They make their voices heard by participating in elections , right ? Isn't it so ? I already gave you my ' stance ' , if people want it to happen then I would welcome such a development but not and I say never on the ' gun point ' . More loud and clear than most .

There's no allergy to Islam but all with a certain barbaric interpretation . ' freak em out ' ? Tell me , how does living in an ideal world suit anybody ? Go all with your ' holier than thou ' thing and you still wouldn't have answered my original question .

 

[SQ8]

I cant talk with whole pakistan. Right now you are talking with me and i am interested in your stance. I am getting the vibe that you are against enforcement of sharia in Pakistan...if thats not the case then be loud and clear....
If taliban is fitna then why i should be sympathetic to people like you who are allergic to islam and very thought of sharia freak them out.....Qayamat nazdeek hey aur uski nishanian nazar aa rahi hain.

This is reactionary... because the very idea of Sharia.. requires that it be first enforced in personal life.. before the overall society.
Islam is not a religion static in the 6th century..and neither did the prophet show that in his life..nor did his closest companions.
The process of how alcohol was banned is an example how Islam encourages adaptation and evoltuon to the times.
The prophet's life(and not just the Quran and his Hadiath..which are a part of Sunnah and not all of it)..i.e his Seerat is a must for all those seeking to understand Islam and the Quran. Thus, the implementation of Sharia and how the laws were interpreted have been carried out in the most idiotic .. and bumbling manner by these so called Scholars in Pakistan...since many true scholars were not consulted or their opinions sidelined.

for eg.. There were two phases to the Prophet's life.. the one he lived in Makkah and the one in Medinah..
each showed differing conditions on Muslims(subjected, under Kafir rule, not having power etc OR Dominant,truly controlling a state etc). His actions and his advise under those conditions are applicable as much then as they are today. So if a Muslim is in a foreign land certain actions must be carried out as they were in Makkah during those times.. certain liberties may be taken as in Medina.

The same goes for Sharia and its implementation. First the Muslim must understand and implement it upon himself. If the whole society is stuck on eminem then it is never advisable to ban eminem. Instead the Muslim must gradually counter it by promoting an alternative less offensive alternative.. So if his brother gets hooked to it.. immediate admonition will result in rebellion.. instead gradual weaning from eminem to something lighter.. to Kishore or Lois Armstrong.. to eventually Naat or Qawwali is the best approach. Accomplishing this needs a thinking man, not a stubborn parrot who only copy pastes hadiath or typical translations.

So perhaps Sharia needs to be understood in light of today's times..
that a "witness" can also be verification of camera footage or Dna trace...or lie detectors.
That the corporal punishment must be enforced.. but enough leeway be granted so that the offence is deterred in the first place.

I say the same of Imam Mahdi.. Im very sure he will not be coming with a Turban riding a horse.. and may instead take to more globalized look and know how to use his galaxy S6 or whatever.

At the end , there will always be those who after encountering these idiotic parrots are dissuaded from Islam.. but since they never really encountered Islam nor bothered to explore other options.. once cant blame them for reacting except for not trying harder or looking elsewhere beyond the cesspool that is the internet in terms of knowledge.

 

[Secur]

Well the point is that you said yourself that drones are causing radicalization and we don't have a choice does that mean we can drone innocent people in the process of targetting suspects? Because its more innocent people dying than the militants. Secondly you say even after disengaging from this war they won't stop their activities but the point is they have never caused any real problem in terms of imposing an Islamic system on our people before this war began and what i meant was that this stance of Jihad fuels their actions and provides them with the popular support they need to continue their attacks.

I didn't say that the drones are the cause of radicalization but that they are causing a lot of problems otherwise , rest assured that the Pakistani society is radicalized enough for UAV's to make any significant difference . Collateral damage is a harsh reality of both symmetrical and asymmetrical warfare , just a lot more with the latter since the enemy face it doesn't wear uniforms and hence enjoys a certain advantage over the state . Innocents do get killed , there's no denial but should we stop the operations and allow a takeover ? The answer is no . We are at war , miss .

Yeah , why ? Because they were busy controlling things and running Govt in Afghanistan even though with International isolation and draconian laws . Once finished , do we have any doubt what the next target could have been ? There's a reason why Saudi Arabia doesn't support them any longer . Look into that . Well , we can see right ? The 2014 is just around the corner . No ' Jihad ' is carried out against innocents and that too Muslims .

@Oscar

Couldn't have said it better , sir .

Though , I do not expect a rational reply but the usual emotional ones .

' Are you Muslim ? ' for starters !

 

[SQ8]

Couldn't have said it better , sir .

Though , I do not expect a rational reply but the usual emotional ones .

' Are you Muslim ? ' for starters !

because the problem is common to many Pakistanis.. that they consider themselves the "Aql-e-kul" on matters(I am no exception).
Moreover, disagreement is not considered easy especially if it is a topic that you hold dear but know nothing or insufficient about(i.e you are unsure of your opinion's veracity but belief it to be true based on whatever reasons).

If you are convinced your school book is all you need to understand gravity..then you will be prepared to call me a heretic in Physics
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/258327-bla-terrorists-bombed-jinnahs-ziarat-residency-museum-21.html#post4412522

 

[Secur]

because the problem is common to many Pakistanis.. that they consider themselves the "Aql-e-kul" on matters(I am no exception).
Moreover, disagreement is not considered easy especially if it is a topic that you hold dear but know nothing or insufficient about(i.e you are unsure of your opinion's veracity but belief it to be true based on whatever reasons).

If you are convinced your school book is all you need to understand gravity..then you will be prepared to call me a heretic in Physics
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/258327-bla-terrorists-bombed-jinnahs-ziarat-residency-museum-21.html#post4412522

Come and talk with an ' average Joe ' . I meet so many people who consider themselves the sole and final authority on things on the behalf of what they learned . No room for improvement and correction .

Disagreement is inherent in human nature . The defensive mechanism of the subconsciousness comes into play in such things which the person knows little of , but it is some sort of unshakable belief as you explained yesterday .

I am not convinced that I have even learnt anything until now Though , I knew that specific thing . You left my friend surprised who thought that things were that easy to manage .

 

[Aamna14]

I didn't say that the drones are the cause of radicalization but that they are causing a lot of problems otherwise , rest assured that the Pakistani society is radicalized enough for UAV's to make any significant difference . Collateral damage is a harsh reality of both symmetrical and asymmetrical warfare , just a lot more with the latter since the enemy face it doesn't wear uniforms and hence enjoys a certain advantage over the state . Innocents do get killed , there's no denial but should we stop the operations and allow a takeover ? The answer is no . We are at war , miss .

Yeah , why ? Because they were busy controlling things and running Govt in Afghanistan even though with International isolation and draconian laws . Once finished , do we have any doubt what the next target could have been ? There's a reason why Saudi Arabia doesn't support them any longer . Look into that . Well , we can see right ? The 2014 is just around the corner . No ' Jihad ' is carried out against innocents and that too Muslims .

@Oscar

Couldn't have said it better , sir .

Though , I do not expect a rational reply but the usual emotional ones .

' Are you Muslim ? ' for starters !

Well i wasn't trying to justify a Jihad against innoncent Muslims i want to clear that just telling you the narrative that the talibans present in order to attract people into joining them and your right wars do have casualties but since when have we been fighting this war and at what cost because if the threat is the same as i said that they would impose sharia then it might have happened a long time ago or it might have been suggested by the tribals that are being droned now. If they were fighting the US army alone it would end as they withdraw but they have declared a war against the government and the army and do you think that if all strategies have failed for years to eliminate them can you eliminate an ideology through sheer force? I think its time we use a different strategy instead of letting them continue with their killing machine.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Should i stop praying nimaz because Taliban pray nimaz?. Should i cut down beard (yes i have a beard) because taliban, have beards...should i stop participating in tabligh because i might be assumed extremist and taliban sympathizer?.
When we talk about sharia, some liberal/seculer would remind you of swat episode , malala and what not....and would justfiy their anti-islamic stance by quoting terrorism of taliban and alqaida....
We are going in dangerous direction....demonizing islam, ulema and mosques by narrating the Taliban example...this is what westernized seculers do.....taliban are recent entry, the fact is hindostani muslims were already divided between deoband and aligarh school of thoughts before 1947...the one group is saying pakistan was made for islam and another group is saying that pakistan was made for muslims not islam.
@Secur, @Oscar

 

[Secur]

@Pak-one

The religion isn't the problem for the people as you are thinking , it is very clear , the actions of the certain followers and interpretation of the religion being used to for indeed are . The Sharia which even most people do not properly understand needs to be brought by the consensus of the majority of people and not imposed on them by anyone on the gun point and psychological fear . Otherwise , what purpose would it serve ? . Here , we have the country burning and you are more concerned about the ' global image ' of Muslims . Charity begins at home . Lets put our house in order first before going for the rescue of all Muslims . No one is demonizing the religion , the clerics and the mosque but the others must accept the high radicalization running rampant too which is/was done using same things by the same people for their interests and power and needs a solution first .

 

[SHAMK9]

very thought of sharia freak them out.....

Certainly freaks me out, zia all over again