Technology sector could end Pakistan’s CAD concerns: PM Khan

[ziaulislam]

I bet you that majority of those 10k graduates aren’t even being taught relevant skills. A persistent challenge for Pakistan has been the quality of its IT education.

Most IT work is self learning online course these days
You learn programming languages

 

[Ali_Baba]

Most IT work is self learning online course these days
You learn programming languages

Maybe so - but the quality of Pakistani BSc degrees at only 2 years, is piss poor.

Large institutions that want to outsource to foreign locations look at the quality of the degrees as an indicator of how easy it will be for them to hire resources locally. They don’t look at hobbyist’s learning programming at home as there is no way for large organisations to make decisions around that. Most organisations have minimal education standards that are enforced by their HR departments.

Even in the UK - with its high standards - a lot of the blue chip companies want a 2.1 minimal from a redbrick for some of their best graduate courses and their best/juiciest jobs.

Right now - Pakistan looks poor until it fixes its higher education standards to issue degrees that meet international standards (3 years minimum) and that have the required subject matter and rigorous examination processes behind them.

 

[_NOBODY_]

If you hadn't mentioned AJK as your region I swear I'd say you are describing my cousins lol

But like your cousins, mine also are now in SEA and working their asses off. Collectively they are worth a few billion PKR now and that's last 10 years work.

Where in SEA? I presume Singapore or Malaysia?

Maybe so - but the quality of Pakistani BSc degrees at only 2 years, is piss poor.

Large institutions that want to outsource to foreign locations look at the quality of the degrees as an indicator of how easy it will be for them to hire resources locally. They don’t look at hobbyist’s learning programming at home as there is no way for large organisations to make decisions around that. Most organisations have minimal education standards that are enforced by their HR departments.

Even in the UK - with its high standards - a lot of the blue chip companies want a 2.1 minimal from a redbrick for some of their best graduate courses and their best/juiciest jobs.

Right now - Pakistan looks poor until it fixes its higher education standards to issue degrees that meet international standards (3 years minimum) and that have the required subject matter and rigorous examination processes behind them.

Even the 4 years one is dogshit, I can personally testify that.

 

[jupiter2007]

Our annual IT grad rate is bad only 10K annually, so we have a pool but to make it a proper industry
We need to increase "production" to alteast 30-40k

This seems interesting as he is talking about training youngsters and increasing that rate

Pakistan is 30 years behind on everything. Our Government is still running everything on Paper. We should be moving toward 100% digitalization. From city Mayor to PM and in between everything should be digitalized. It will reduce 50% of the government overhead and that money can be spend on other projects.

In 5 years organ printing 3D machines will be introduced in America. I have seen the prototype few years ago.

 

[SQ8]

Absolutely. There are days I do very little, there are days I don't have time for lunch. Ultimately though I manage my own time. I know I'm held accountable by the results required and the deadline.

Metrics can do the same thing in most roles. If the employee knows expectations then they know the consequences of not meeting those targets.

Personally I don't think any company should work in a way where people work 12 hour shifts, especially in roles which require thinking. You exhaust people and end up with lower quality work and more mistakes. I know a lot do, but most adapt over time to have a better work life balance.

I think the US is an exception to this culturally. Maybe some of our US based friends can shed more light on this.

Depends on old vs new cultures. Startup culture in the US is very accommodating so long as tasks are accomplished which includes flexible hours and other stuff as unlimited vacations based upon managing your workload. Established giants however are still 15-20 days a year vacations and heavily monitored workhours.
That is also the reason they are facing the great resignation more than anyone.

 

[maverick1977]

Pakistan is 30 years behind on everything. Our Government is still running everything on Paper. We should be moving toward 100% digitalization. From city Mayor to PM and in between everything should be digitalized. It will reduce 50% of the government overhead and that money can be spend on other projects.

In 5 years organ printing 3D machines will be introduced in America. I have seen the prototype few years ago.

Its so important to avoid corruption. cover your country with 4G LTE or 5G … and let even a rehri wala do transaction using his cell phone credit card transaction app

 

[SQ8]

Most IT work is self learning online course these days
You learn programming languages

You keep citing numbers and metrics but haven’t provided those for peer review so it would back your claims up. The story is more along the middle as Pakistanis do tend to put in a lot of work hours but many seem to be unproductive with time spent on social media or other activities. Apart from 2-5% of the educated middle class most procrastinate to the point of waiting for last minute delivery of work simply because they are trying to get everything by the book and no more.
So whether private or public sector the innovation is institutionally limited to senior management or at least the art of taking credit for another’s achievement is perfected.
The silver lining for Pakistan is the startup culture with greenback hungry folks who are innovating on their own but only 50% of them really know how to scale and establish themselves whilst tje others are looking for a quick buck before moving to the next project. This isn’t different from India some 15 years ago before their IT institutions really took over and standardized qualifications and hiring process to provide a level metric.

And yes while most IT learning can be done at home it requires decent English literacy and ability to present themselves - and where Pakistanis as an entire nation and at a “micro” level their middle educated class are severely lacking is the ability to present themselves. The reason why a kid in the west will be ahead of a kid in Pakistan isn’t intelligence but exposure. That 18 year old kid is likely working some job where they are dealing with people from outside in a retail or at the least a work environment.
Heck American suburbs have 9 year old kids making $100 a week at times shoveling driveways or with lemonade stands whilst Pakistani kids are taught culturally to wait for the charity of Eidi (and many a times give it to parents/politicians for safekeeping).

Right down the street from my fairly affluent neighborhood I have an entire institution dedicated to financial education that teaches kids from grade 5 to high school everything from basic banking to savings and financial investments in the summer,winter or evening schools.
Have yet to see a single example of this in any place in Pakistan unless learnt through family business.

So while IK may have lofty visions, there is an issue of supply of good candidates he wishes to have and not because there aren’t any but that they aren’t enough to help beyond a little for CAD.

 

[Ghessan]

Sure..they are good and bad..
But are you telling me that paksitanis are more dominant in IT as compared to indians/bengalis

hate to break it to you but numbers dont support your claim.
Also among south asians pakistanis are the poorest and most illterate dispora..this is also supported by numbers and facts

you literally don't know about Pak IT people, i have contacts with many IT firms. just visit Pakistan and i will show you dozens, the environment in those companies and the people working there.

you are comparing them to Indians and Bangalese, their govts took steps at the right time and now see their IT exports that is why they are dominating this sector.

while you are weighing everything on People working in IT sector in Pakistan. ii is opportunities that are not available to them so don't blame this work force.

the only thing i agree with you is literacy but that is dominant in every sector thanks to poor education system.

 

[Ghessan]

Maybe so - but the quality of Pakistani BSc degrees at only 2 years, is piss poor.

Large institutions that want to outsource to foreign locations look at the quality of the degrees as an indicator of how easy it will be for them to hire resources locally. They don’t look at hobbyist’s learning programming at home as there is no way for large organisations to make decisions around that. Most organisations have minimal education standards that are enforced by their HR departments.

Even in the UK - with its high standards - a lot of the blue chip companies want a 2.1 minimal from a redbrick for some of their best graduate courses and their best/juiciest jobs.

Right now - Pakistan looks poor until it fixes its higher education standards to issue degrees that meet international standards (3 years minimum) and that have the required subject matter and rigorous examination processes behind them.

BS degree in Pakistan is 4 years. Gen Musharraf in his times started to convert the two year program into four which is almost complete although process is still going on.

problem is with the quality of education which starts from the very start at school level.