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Tarique against religion-based politics

Salafi movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Salafi movement, also known as the Salafi methodology and the Salafist movement, is a movement or sect[1] withinIslam that takes its name from the term salaf ("predecessors", "ancestors") used to identify the earliest Muslims, who, its adherents believe, provide the epitome of Islamic practice.[2][3] The popular hadith that quotes Muhammad as saying 'The people of my own generation are the best, then those who come after them, and then those of the next generation,' is seen as a call to Muslims to follow the example of those first three generations, the salaf.[4]

The majority of the world's Salafis are from Qatar, UAE and Saudi Arabia.[5] 46.87% of Qataris[5] and 44.8% of Emiratis are Salafis.[5] 5.7% of Bahrainis are Salafis and 2.17% of Kuwaitis are Salafis.[5]

Salafis are the "dominant minority" in Saudi Arabia.[6] There are 4 million Saudi Salafis since 22.9% of Saudis are Salafis (concentrated in Najd).[5] The Salafi movement is often described as synonymous with Wahhabism, but Salafists consider the term "Wahhabi" derogatory.[7] At other times, Salafism has been deemed a hybrid of Wahhabism and other post-1960s movements.[8] Salafism has become associated with literalist, strict and puritanical approaches to Islam – and, particularly in the West, with the Salafi Jihadis who espouse violent jihad against those they deem to be enemies of Islam as a legitimate expression of Islam.[9]

Academics and historians have used the term "Salafism" to denote "a school of thought which surfaced in the second half of the 19th century as a reaction to the spread of European ideas" and "sought to expose the roots of modernity within Muslim civilization."[10][11] However contemporary Salafis follow "literal, traditional ... injunctions of the sacred texts", looking to Ibn Taymiyyah rather than the "somewhat freewheeling interpretation" of 19th century figures Muhammad Abduh, Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, and Rashid Rida.[12][13]

Observers differ over whether Salafi are Sunni Muslims and whether they are Wahhabis. Self-described Salafis believe they are Sunni Muslims, while traditionalist Sunni critics claim that Salafis are the same as Wahhabis,[14][15] a sect unto their own and different from orthodox (i.e. traditional) Sunni Muslims.[14][16][17] The basis of this claim is that Salafis do not acknowledge or follow any of the four schools of thought (Madhhab) to which other Sunni Muslims adhere. They have their own beliefs and laws, their own leaders and systems, a religion with strict and so-called extremist ways.[14][15][16]

In the Arab world – and possibly even more so now by Muslims in the West – the term Ahl-as-Sunnah ("People of theSunnah") is frequently used instead, while the term Ahl al-Hadith ("People of the Tradition") is often used on the Indian subcontinent to identify adherents of Salafi ideology, though this term is used more often in the Middle-East to indicate scholars and students of Hadith). The Muslim Brotherhood is differentiated from Salafi, allegedly because of its religious innovations,[18] but the group did include the term in the "About Us" section of its website.[19]

It is often reported from various sources, including the German domestic intelligence service, that Salafism is the fastest-growing Islamic movement in the world.[20][21][22][23][24]"

Salafi's want to go back to 7th century and discard the 14 century of religious and jurisprudence scholarship that accompanied social evolution in Muslim societies in the last 14 centuries.

MB/JI follow Qutbism and Moududism, both of which are variations of this Salafism. Yes they may not support violence or terrorism, but there is no telling what they might do if they grab power in an opportunity created by Indian terrorism in Bangladesh, like the Mullah's did in Iran. Egyptian MB started acting very authoritarian after they were elected, although I disagree with Sisi's removing them in a coup, that should have been done in an election.

The only Islam leaning party that I support is AKP of Turkey.


My stand is that it is up to the people to choose. People should be free to choose what kind of parties they support and become member of. I would not support restricting religion based parties just because Indians think it is dangerous for their puppet Awami League. But I will advise against people becoming member of and voting for such religion based parties, because I believe this is not good for the future of the Muslim world.

I would like to see people ship all forms of Salafism nonsense back to Arabia, where they originated and eventually let the whole world deal with this source of terrorism and retrograde ideas.

We need to follow the social development of Turkey and how it has built a vibrant, well developed and tolerant society and let this country lead the Muslim world towards unity and development. Petrodollar influence of both Shia and Sunni kind and their fitna among Muslim world should be a warning to the whole Muslim world and should show us what path we should not follow and what path we should follow.
as with so many choices in life on this planet, it is hard to make a black-and-white sweeping justification for one 'ism' over another. for a start, for a Muslim and for a nation like BD, the mere suggestion that Islam should be uprooted from one aspect of life and society is absurd. even in a Muslim-minority country, Muslims would normally support the existence of parties/groups that cater to their needs (i.e. "religion based" parties/groups). if your justification for secularism is economics, the justification for Islamism ("religion based" system) in a Muslim-majority country is well, Islamism (which can be said in secular terms as morality). one can say that economic progress and Islamism are not mutually exclusive, and I agree with that. but I would also say they are unrelated. economic progress can be hindered or benefited by other ‘isms’ as well (like can’t we think of examples when Islamophobic commies of BD sacrificed economic interests for ideological interests?). but for a Muslim and a society like BD, Islamic interests should be an end in itself.

one thing to note is empires rise and fall, owing to various circumstances. one shouldn’t think a rise or fall of a nation or society is because of political Islam. no one should try to bend Islam in either way for the interests of progressing. after all, to a Muslim, progress in *this* world is not an end in itself, although a regressive path cannot not be taken either. moderation is a very important part of the principles of Islam.

ultra secularist-dominated system that Turkey is cannot be a model for Muslim countries just imo
 
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this Mattrixx claims to be a Bangladeshi, but hates every bit of the history of the subcontinental Muslim community. he wishes Muslims did not come to South Asia and civilizations did not spring up. considering that he is a Muslim as he claims, what kind of low life actually hates their own history that much, whether they are Muslim or Jew or Buddhist or whether they are English or Brazilian or Qatari.

this member kept the avatar of Nawab Siraj ud Daula for a long time. owing to his deeply held belief that who is a Mughal and who is a Bengali Muslim could be completely separated, he believed the Nawab to be a Bengali instead of Mughal. upon discovering that the Nawab couldn't fall into his concept of a utopian pure 'Bengali' ethnicity untouched by admixture from settling non-Bengali Muslims, he had a fall out with the Nawab that resulted in his current avatar.

Yes this islamophobic 'bengali' nationalism can be that irrational

I still think Siraj ud daula is a Bengali Muslim. But Dont like him because of his ill natured character.
Now I dont like an ideal who cant called potent at any sense.
Drunk Nawab sold the independence and no control over his people and territory.
And here in pdf people started talking about him in every arguments.

And I dont want to believe that my clan is the evil one, rather will separate myself from that.
If my clan is planning for future evil, I will be a whistle blower not a blind follower.
 
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how can you even think otherwise?

Understand the difference that I have respect for everything created or took shape in this land; not something alien created in a distant place. I have respect for the Pals not Kalingas. Repect for the Baro Vuiyans not Mughals.
 
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Understand the difference that I have respect for everything created or took shape in this land; not something alien created in a distant place. I have respect for the Pals not Kalingas. Repect for the Baro Vuiyans not Mughals.

But you should remember that without Mughal's and their agrarian expansion policy which resulted in mass conversion to Islam, there would not be any Muslim majority in this landmass, and no East Pakistan and its new name Bangladesh today.

The Turkic Mamluk like Bakthtyar Khilji and later Turkic rulers (tied to Delhi and independent ones) laid the foundation of Muslim community in this land mass and Mughals built on that, as a by product of their economic policy. Baro Bhuiyans were mostly Afghan war lords that fled from Mughal advance in Delhi and other areas in North India, if I am not mistaken.

And whether you like it or not, all of them were tied with larger Islamic world empire, mainly led by Turkics and Turko-Mongols between 1200-1757.

If you are a Bengali Muslim from the educated class, there is a good chance that there is little bit of Turkic, Turko-Mongol, Afghan or Persian or a mix of some or all blood in you, whether you realize it or not, but then that is not true for Bengali Hindu's.

Siraj-ud-daula I believe was of pure Persian origin, who were not related with the original Turkic nobility of Bengal and other South Asian seats of Muslim power. These Persians mostly came after Humayun defeated Suri dynasty with help of Safavi's.
 
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without drawing aspiration from people nation building and progress are not possible. Islamic aspirations are part of national fabric of Bangladesh and can not be suppressed. People choice, equality, freedom are all inspired and shaped by Islamic identity and heritage over 100s of years. For readers one crucial thing to understand is that Bangladesh journey/struggle as independent country started hundreds of years ago NOT in 1971. Tareq like his father tried to make that point (not so elegant way). indo Awami propaganda masters are desperate taking word out of anyone mouth and spreading deception and creating division. Matrixx is just good foot soldier for these indo awami propaganda.
which century did the process(journey towards a separate country) start... ?
were people not ruled by kings of various kind who add landmass to the area in their control whenver they want...
 
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as with so many choices in life on this planet, it is hard to make a black-and-white sweeping justification for one 'ism' over another. for a start, for a Muslim and for a nation like BD, the mere suggestion that Islam should be uprooted from one aspect of life and society is absurd. even in a Muslim-minority country, Muslims would normally support the existence of parties/groups that cater to their needs (i.e. "religion based" parties/groups). if your justification for secularism is economics, the justification for Islamism ("religion based" system) in a Muslim-majority country is well, Islamism (which can be said in secular terms as morality). one can say that economic progress and Islamism are not mutually exclusive, and I agree with that. but I would also say they are unrelated. economic progress can be hindered or benefited by other ‘isms’ as well (like can’t we think of examples when Islamophobic commies of BD sacrificed economic interests for ideological interests?). but for a Muslim and a society like BD, Islamic interests should be an end in itself.

one thing to note is empires rise and fall, owing to various circumstances. one shouldn’t think a rise or fall of a nation or society is because of political Islam. no one should try to bend Islam in either way for the interests of progressing. after all, to a Muslim, progress in *this* world is not an end in itself, although a regressive path cannot not be taken either. moderation is a very important part of the principles of Islam.

ultra secularist-dominated system that Turkey is cannot be a model for Muslim countries just imo

I know secular is a dirty word for many Muslims, but I am not proposing or promoting secularism. It is for people to decide what ism they want. My main point was that there has been some recent deviation from mainstream Islam by pseudo scholars which has taken over regimes or have influence with regimes that control oil wells and has spread this retrograde versions to rest of Shia and Sunni world using their petrodollars. This deviation or bidaa I believe is the source of extremism.

Every country is different, so we cannot copy a model from another country and follow that 100%. But if not Turkey, then can you show another Muslim country whose model we should follow?
 
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Bangladesh must reconfirm and continue its own model of present secular Islamic country. We do not have to follow Nigeria's Boko Haram, IS or even Turkey examples. History of each Muslim community in every country is so different and so unknown to each other that BD cannot just follow any other country's footsteps.

BD has a large number of non-Muslims who have been living in this country for centuries and since long long before Islam arrived here. Our older generations built empire in countries many of which were not muslim majority area. They did so without becoming nasty to the non-muslims, but being generous towards them. Once the Muslims started to be mean and imposed their religious laws (as against secular ones), the Muslim Kingdoms evaporated in thin air.

People in BD should not aspire to impose Sharia-based old and unworthy laws in place of the present secular laws which were introduced by the secular British Christians. If the Muslims do otherwise this Muslim majority State will crumble like the larger one did during and after Aurangzeb. We must not indulge in the nasty pretension of protecting Islam which may cause the demise of our Muslim majority State, same as it happened in the past.
 
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Understand the difference that I have respect for everything created or took shape in this land; not something alien created in a distant place. I have respect for the Pals not Kalingas. Repect for the Baro Vuiyans not Mughals.
it is Bhuiyan not Vuiyan :sick:

and they had Turkic-Afghan roots or in more simple terms, Pathan roots
 
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The future steps I suggest for Bangladesh is the following:

D-8 group as the spinal cord and Turkey as its brain
Developing 8 (D-8) Organization for Economic Cooperation

Then we can see what other groups, blocs, economic/security entities, nation states and regional unions etc. that touches and overlaps with this D-8 group, of which Bangladesh is a member country. These are:

- ASEAN+2 (Japan and South Korea) (Indonesia and Malaysia are influential and leading member countries of ASEAN)
- China (borders with ASEAN, which is led by Indonesia)
- India (borders with Pakistan and Bangladesh)
- ECO (includes, Pakistan, Iran and Turkey as member countries)
Economic Cooperation Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Arab League and GCC (includes Egypt as the leading largest Arab nation and GCC being a part of Arab League)
- EU and NATO (Turkey is under EU accession path and a major NATO member country)
- African Union (Nigeria and Egypt are two of the largest most influential nations in this bloc)

- D-8 member countries should try to enhance economic integration between the 8 member countries, led by Turkey
- At the same time, D-8 member countries should help the integration of ASEAN, ECO, Arab League and African Union
- Turkey should lead ECO integration, Japan and South Korea should lead ASEAN integration, while Arab League and African Union integration can move at their own pace
- using the internal captive market in D-8, Turkish MNCs should try to develop indigenous technology and utilize the cheaper labor in member countries to produce/assemble (CKD or SKD) competitive products for world market, funneled through the D-8 member countries to nearby countries

I will give you one specific example of an Turkish-American join venture company that can expand in D-8 internal markets, by just designing right hand side vehicles:
Ford Otosan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The company operates five facilities throughout the country. The Kocaeli Plant, located in Gölcük, was opened in 2001, and has been the main global production center for the Transit and the Transit Connect.[11] It has an annual production capacity of 320,000 vehicles and has its own port.[2]
The İnönü Plant, located in Eskişehir, began operating in 1982,[6] and has been the production center of the Cargo heavy truck, as well as for engines and powertrains. It has an annual capacity of 10,000 trucks, 66,000 engines and 45,000 gearboxes.[11]
The Kartal Parts Distribution Center, located in the Sancaktepe district of Istanbul, has been operating since 1998,[7] and it is the marketing centre of the company's marketing, sales, after-sales and spare parts operations.[11]
The Gebze Engineering Center, located in the Tübitak Gebze Techno Park, was established in 2007, and is responsible for the development of the newest products and technologies. It employs over 1000 product development engineers.[7]
The Yeniköy plant will start production of the Transit/Tourneo Courier in the second quarter of 2014. It is located within the Kocaeli facility, but as a different production plant, with a starting capacity of 110,000 vehicles per year.[citation needed]"

Many of the vehicles produced in these Turkish plants are 100% designed by more than 1000 Turkish engineers in Tubitak Gebze Engineering Center. When we have a right hand drive version of Ford Cargo commercial trucks and other smaller vans such as Transit and Transit Connect, they can be assembled in CKD plants in:

- Bangladesh for Indian market
- Indonesia for ASEAN market
- Pakistan and/or Iran for ECO market
- Egypt for Arab League market
- Nigeria for African Union market
while Turkey already covers EU and Western markets.
 
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I know secular is a dirty word for many Muslims, but I am not proposing or promoting secularism. It is for people to decide what ism they want. My main point was that there has been some recent deviation from mainstream Islam by pseudo scholars which has taken over regimes or have influence with regimes that control oil wells and has spread this retrograde versions to rest of Shia and Sunni world using their petrodollars. This deviation or bidaa I believe is the source of extremism.

Every country is different, so we cannot copy a model from another country and follow that 100%. But if not Turkey, then can you show another Muslim country whose model we should follow?
i cannot show one country that is a true model. however there are many Muslim and non-Muslim countries that BD can see as models and each of whom posesses something that is a best practise in a certain area. also understanding BD's unique characteristics and historical connectivities is important
 
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But you should remember that without Mughal's and their agrarian expansion policy which resulted in mass conversion to Islam, there would not be any Muslim majority in this landmass, and no East Pakistan and its new name Bangladesh today.

The Turkic Mamluk like Bakthtyar Khilji and later Turkic rulers (tied to Delhi and independent ones) laid the foundation of Muslim community in this land mass and Mughals built on that, as a by product of their economic policy. Baro Bhuiyans were mostly Afghan war lords that fled from Mughal advance in Delhi and other areas in North India, if I am not mistaken.

And whether you like it or not, all of them were tied with larger Islamic world empire, mainly led by Turkics and Turko-Mongols between 1200-1757.

If you are a Bengali Muslim from the educated class, there is a good chance that there is little bit of Turkic, Turko-Mongol, Afghan or Persian or a mix of some or all blood in you, whether you realize it or not, but then that is not true for Bengali Hindu's.

Siraj-ud-daula I believe was of pure Persian origin, who were not related with the original Turkic nobility of Bengal and other South Asian seats of Muslim power. These Persians mostly came after Humayun defeated Sher Shah Suri with help of Safavi Persians.

it is Bhuiyan not Vuiyan :sick:

and they had Turkic-Afghan roots or in more simple terms, Pathan roots

So you want to prove that you are alien invaders here. Nothing to do with this land and culture.
Occupying and looting is the main intention. And still waiting for the alien craft to return.
Bangladeshi and Bengali Muslim identity doesnt matter to you. You chose to prove yourself of descendant of Arab, persian, Turk, Mongolian, Afgani. Does it make it proud. Glorifying other country's civilization, will they take you back by this?

So where is the uniqueness of Bangladesh. Do you want to see bangla as weak and inferior, invaded by all.
Where my point was muslims' root can be different but they very much opted into Bangla and its culture, like present BD
It can can be seen now in our culture that we have opted a mixed culture of Muslim + Hindu combo.
Even Kalu Miah is so kalu that no one can understand he is from Turkey. Where he looks more similar to Tamils.
And you guys are so certain that you are muslim root from West. But the physical structure and skin tones say we are indegenous population maybe converted religion.
 
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So you want to prove that you are alien invaders here. Nothing to do with this land and culture.
Occupying and looting is the main intention. And still waiting for the alien craft to return.
Bangladeshi and Bengali Muslim identity doesnt matter to you. You chose to prove yourself of descendant of Arab, persian, Turk, Mongolian, Afgani. Does it make it proud. Glorifying other country's civilization, will they take you back by this?

So where is the uniqueness of Bangladesh. Do you want to see bangla as weak and inferior, invaded by all.
Where my point was muslims' root can be different but they very much opted into Bangla and its culture, like present BD
It can can be seen now in our culture that we have opted a mixed culture of Muslim + Hindu combo.
Even Kalu Miah is so kalu that no one can understand he is from Turkey. Where he looks more similar to Tamils.
And you guys are so certain that you are muslim root from West. But the physical structure and skin tones say we are indegenous population maybe converted religion.

You have nothing to do with tamils, there is no such thing as tamil look.. maybe you have nothing to do with turks, that doesn't mean you can claim similarity with us based on look or color..

We are product of glorious Indigenous civilization that is continuing to the future, not the product of repeated invasions like northern sub continent.. don't identify him or others with us, its humiliating...
 
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So you want to prove that you are alien invaders here. Nothing to do with this land and culture.
Occupying and looting is the main intention. And still waiting for the alien craft to return.
Bangladeshi and Bengali Muslim identity doesnt matter to you. You chose to prove yourself of descendant of Arab, persian, Turk, Mongolian, Afgani. Does it make it proud. Glorifying other country's civilization, will they take you back by this?

So where is the uniqueness of Bangladesh. Do you want to see bangla as weak and inferior, invaded by all.
Where my point was muslims' root can be different but they very much opted into Bangla and its culture, like present BD
It can can be seen now in our culture that we have opted a mixed culture of Muslim + Hindu combo.
Even Kalu Miah is so kalu that no one can understand he is from Turkey. Where he looks more similar to Tamils.
And you guys are so certain that you are muslim root from West. But the physical structure and skin tones say we are indegenous population maybe converted religion.

Bold part: You should certainly add also the name of local Hindus, who converted to Islam, to the stocks of people in your list. But, by talking about only local connection you are denying the historical facts that were established by other people in our land.

In fact, all the regions of the world have seen invasions and migration throughout the pre-historic as well as historic times. By denying this for Bengal, you are trying to re-write the history that was created by our fore bearers. It is true that all those stocks of people have come and settled in Bengal. Please enlighten yourself by reading the history from 1200 AD to 1750 AD to know that many people with foreign ancestry also came to Bengal. Your personal disliking of that part of history cannot bend it.

However, history is continuous and does not start at only a certain point as some people are trying to establish in his thread. All those happened before Muslim arrival is also a part of our history.
 
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