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Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

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financial contribution ? Seems they need some bakras make the project economically viable. If India had so much money then we can have more LCA projects, even if it fails at we would have gained some technical expertise that we can carry forward.
The project costs are already under severe criticism esp from those who wanted a Light Fighter like the Viper. Many people also claim that it doesn't offer enough advantage over the Vipers and Hornets to justify the price-tag per aircraft.

PS: While the MMRCA bidding was ongoing, I had expected Rafale to win and India opting out of the JSF (due to its lack of feasibility). Both are true at this time :lol:
 
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if somehow pakistan get SU-35, how much we can learn about indian su 30s? will it make them half, one third, vulnerable to falcons/thunder?
@Windjammer
same Q if india get f16 !!!

Well PAF pilots Flew Flankers of Chinese Including Chinese Su-30's so they know about Flankers Already...

Name Gr.Capt. Aamir Masood

Unit 9th squadron "Griffins"
Flying F-16s
Viper Hours 3000
Currently flying Su-30MK1 for the Chinese Navy.

2006: Commanding Officer of 9 sqn.





 
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@Muhammad Omar
i heard about himm... saw his profile on soem f 16 site too.. but still its chinese.... i mean we need orginal maal :P
bcz not only Pakistan need to know aircraft perfromance (chinese flankers cna provide that tt too) but we then can get electronics/radar/avonics knowledge if we get hand on su 35
 
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@Muhammad Omar
i heard about himm... saw his profile on soem f 16 site too.. but still its chinese.... i mean we need orginal maal :P
bcz not only Pakistan need to know aircraft perfromance (chinese flankers cna provide that tt too) but we then can get electronics/radar/avonics knowledge if we get hand on su 35

i would love that :D if we get hand on su 35 :P
 
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Economy, Economy and Economy. Its the only thing which can help our defence, not a squadron of 6th generation stealth fighters on loans or nuclear bombs/triads. We need to save up, invest on people's future and then these people will give you the technological revolution we have long been seeking. F16s are enough for terrorists and so are our JF-17s and i don't think we should haste our decision based on the fact that India is getting hands on Rafales. India is a big country. It needs to balance china in the region. Engaging war with them will be a suicidal just as any country engaging war with Russia or USA.
That's pretty much a given, and I completely agree.
 
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Shenyang J-31 - won't be available to Pakistan until 2022.

Currently there are only four options.....
1) Add more F-16s (used and new)
2) Add more JF-17 block2 and block3
3) J-10c /F-10c
3) J-11D / J-16

FBC-1/JH-7A was rejected by PAF due to under power engine.
JH-7B new engine is in development stages and not going to be ready until 2018.
 
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No one is addressing elephant in the room.. SU35 has HUGE RCS:hitwall:
 
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su-35-fighter-jet.jpg

Coming Soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India?


An Edge for Pakistan?:
Acquisition of the Su-35 would probably give Pakistan a marginal edge in terms of capability over India’s two-seat Su-30MKI if it is bought in numbers, but the newer Flanker model only offers modest improvements over its predecessor. Most of those could likely be retrofitted to the Indian Air Force (IAF) Flanker fleet. In fact, there are indications that Russia and India are discussing modernizing the IAF Su-30 fleet.

Would India Purchase U.S. Jets in Response?:
There is also the prospect that India might move to buy fighter aircraft from the United States once it restarts the MMRCA program. The Lockheed Martin F-16IN and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet were both rejected last time around, but the United States does not have to offer the India a fourth-generation plane
Sources:
Coming soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India? | Asia Times
Coming Soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India? | The National Interest Blog
 
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Coming Soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India?

An Edge for Pakistan?:
Acquisition of the Su-35 would probably give Pakistan a marginal edge in terms of capability over India’s two-seat Su-30MKI if it is bought in numbers, but the newer Flanker model only offers modest improvements over its predecessor. Most of those could likely be retrofitted to the Indian Air Force (IAF) Flanker fleet. In fact, there are indications that Russia and India are discussing modernizing the IAF Su-30 fleet.

Would India Purchase U.S. Jets in Response?:
There is also the prospect that India might move to buy fighter aircraft from the United States once it restarts the MMRCA program. The Lockheed Martin F-16IN and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet were both rejected last time around, but the United States does not have to offer the India a fourth-generation plane
Sources:
Coming soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India? | Asia Times
Coming Soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India? | The National Interest Blog
Sounds like Dave Majumdar's got a serious headache at Asia Times regarding Su-35. :D
 
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Coming Soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India?
6120285680_2e19f607f6_b.jpg


Russia seems to be eager to antagonize both friend and foe alike these days.

In a move that seems to be completely inexplicable, Russia is apparently negotiating to sell Pakistan advanced Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighters along with Mi-35 Hind-E attack helicopters. Perhaps more amazingly, the Russians don’t seem to grasp that their Indian allies are likely to react extremely negatively at the prospect of such a deal.

“I do not think that the contracts under discussion will cause jealousy on the part of any of the two sides,” Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told state-owned Russian media outlet Sputnik on Sept. 9.

Despite the fact that the two South Asian nations share linguistic, cultural, geographic and economic links—and are part of the same civilization—they have fought three full-scale wars over the past several decades. At the best of times, their relationship has been fraught with hostility and suspicion—and that probably won’t improve until the generation that lived through the 1947 partition of India passes on. As Australian defense analyst Brian Cloughley told Defense News: “The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift.”

An Edge for Pakistan?:

Acquisition of the Su-35 would probably give Pakistan a marginal edge in terms of capability over India’s two-seat Su-30MKI if it is bought in numbers, but the newer Flanker model only offers modest improvements over its predecessor. Most of those could likely be retrofitted to the Indian Air Force (IAF) Flanker fleet. In fact, there are indications that Russia and India are discussing modernizing the IAF Su-30 fleet.

How Would India Respond?:

However, Russia’s move to supply India’s archenemy with advanced weapons could lead to the nascent South Asian giant turning further towards the United States and Europe. Indian prime minister Narendra Modi has already signaled his intention to purchase 36 Dassault Rafale multirole fighters off-the-shelf from France after the cancellation of the long-running Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) debacle. And there are some signs that a deal could be imminent.

If Russia starts to sell weapons to Pakistan, that could mean that France and the Eurofighter consortium will be in a far better position for when India inevitably issues another tender to replace its dwindling and increasingly decrepit fleet of antiquated Soviet-built MiG-21s and MiG-23s. Moreover, the prospect of Su-35s in Pakistani hands could prompt the Indians to act with a sense of urgency as they watch their perceived advantages erode away.



Another possibility is that because India urgently needs to start recapitalizing its rapidly dwindling fighter inventory, they could opt to simply extend the Rafale buy to the original numbers envisioned for the MMRCA program. It would be an expensive proposition, but national security concerns might force India’s hand. In any case, the Rafale offers better technology and is probably a more effective aircraft overall than the Russian fighter.

Would India Purchase U.S. Jets in Response?:

There is also the prospect that India might move to buy fighter aircraft from the United States once it restarts the MMRCA program. The Lockheed Martin F-16IN and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet were both rejected last time around, but the United States does not have to offer the India a fourth-generation plane.

The United States could offer India participation on the Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Frankly, the United States has the wherewithal to offer India access to much better technology than Russia could ever hope to with the F-35 and follow-on projects. For India, the F-35 would kill two birds with one stone: access to advanced technology, and a trump card over Pakistan and China (in some respects). The only downside is that India would have to abide by U.S. restrictions on the aircraft--which it has traditionally resisted.

In fact, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter—when he was still the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics had expressed his willingness to sell India the fifth-generation stealth fighter in response to a question I had posed to him during an event at the Carnegie Endowment in January 2011.

"There is nothing on our side, no principle which bars that on our side, Indian participation in the Joint Strike Fighter. Right now, they're focused on these aircraft (F-16IN and F/A-18E/F) which are top-of-the-line fourth-generation fighters," Carter had said at the time.

Only time will tell if Russia ends up selling advanced weapons to Pakistan and driving India into a closer relationship with Europe and the United States. But, if Russia sells Su-35s to Pakistan, there is a chance one might see F-35s wearing IAF colors one day in the not so distant future.
 
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forgive me, just a random civvie here, man.

but yeah, I'd hate to see your air force flying SU 35s, but given how you guys are very dependent on US military aid, and that there is so much friction in US-Russian ties lately, Ukraine, sanctions etc.. I don't think you should get your hopes up too high either, the US will not like you guys go buy Russian jets, no chance.


Just like Pakistan, you are ALSO VERY depending upon the American and Israeli and Russian tech. If a WWIII starts, what would happen? You guys won't have spare parts for anything as all these three countries will be producing parts and all for the war.

So the SU's and FU's and all....would be sitting without spares, while the JFT of Pakistan will be kicking *** from Islamabad till Dhaka and to Tibet and back!!!!:yahoo:

On a lighter note, let's not write stupid posts. You wrote one and I responded with facts actually, but still far fetched and far from reality!

No one is addressing elephant in the room.. SU35 has HUGE RCS:hitwall:

The entire Indian airforce inventory has huge RCS. Pakistan will have about 350 JFT's and -16's with much lower RCS. No need to worry for 60-80 or 100 heavies as they'll also be dealing with India's heavier RCS planes!!! By the way, where do you pull this nonsense crap out of? The rear?
 
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That's pretty much a given, and I completely agree.
Sure then , just tell bankers to go on the borders & stand upfront from the enemy fire ?lol
Only strong defence can bring a strong economy , without a strong defence no economy can have any gurntees .

I never stated that Russia is dumping India.

Outside a handful of ex-soviet nations, India is probably the most trusted partner for Russia. Unfortunately for Russia, India is not as strong as China economically forcing it to have tactical relationship with China to counter the west.

There was a time couple of years ago when Russia was still deliberating if the Siberian pipe line should reach China or Japan. It was Japan's decision (under western pressure) which forced Russia towards china and to close the 30 year energy deal.

What Russia is doing is analogous to a man flirting with two girl friends in front his wife to test and reconfirm the relationship and at the same time validating current tolerance limits of the wife....


This may turnout to be a blessing in disguise for the Indian military as many pending procurements may now be pushed with greater vigor and urgency.
So , in the end this trusted wife of Russia (india) is crying because her husband can't take her anymore or her frats ??? Lolzz
May be it makes him too embarrased in front of whole world because that , fat old , ugly wife is just keep frating in publuc non stop & with thunderous sounds & she showing her loyality because , she can't find a husband like Russia any more ?
Guy is handsome , sure other girls will take him away ?Lol
Its all natural ? No ?

Coming Soon: Russian Su-35s to Pakistan and American F-35s to India?
6120285680_2e19f607f6_b.jpg


Russia seems to be eager to antagonize both friend and foe alike these days.

In a move that seems to be completely inexplicable, Russia is apparently negotiating to sell Pakistan advanced Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighters along with Mi-35 Hind-E attack helicopters. Perhaps more amazingly, the Russians don’t seem to grasp that their Indian allies are likely to react extremely negatively at the prospect of such a deal.

“I do not think that the contracts under discussion will cause jealousy on the part of any of the two sides,” Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told state-owned Russian media outlet Sputnik on Sept. 9.

Despite the fact that the two South Asian nations share linguistic, cultural, geographic and economic links—and are part of the same civilization—they have fought three full-scale wars over the past several decades. At the best of times, their relationship has been fraught with hostility and suspicion—and that probably won’t improve until the generation that lived through the 1947 partition of India passes on. As Australian defense analyst Brian Cloughley told Defense News: “The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift.”

An Edge for Pakistan?:

Acquisition of the Su-35 would probably give Pakistan a marginal edge in terms of capability over India’s two-seat Su-30MKI if it is bought in numbers, but the newer Flanker model only offers modest improvements over its predecessor. Most of those could likely be retrofitted to the Indian Air Force (IAF) Flanker fleet. In fact, there are indications that Russia and India are discussing modernizing the IAF Su-30 fleet.

How Would India Respond?:

However, Russia’s move to supply India’s archenemy with advanced weapons could lead to the nascent South Asian giant turning further towards the United States and Europe. Indian prime minister Narendra Modi has already signaled his intention to purchase 36 Dassault Rafale multirole fighters off-the-shelf from France after the cancellation of the long-running Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) debacle. And there are some signs that a deal could be imminent.

If Russia starts to sell weapons to Pakistan, that could mean that France and the Eurofighter consortium will be in a far better position for when India inevitably issues another tender to replace its dwindling and increasingly decrepit fleet of antiquated Soviet-built MiG-21s and MiG-23s. Moreover, the prospect of Su-35s in Pakistani hands could prompt the Indians to act with a sense of urgency as they watch their perceived advantages erode away.



Another possibility is that because India urgently needs to start recapitalizing its rapidly dwindling fighter inventory, they could opt to simply extend the Rafale buy to the original numbers envisioned for the MMRCA program. It would be an expensive proposition, but national security concerns might force India’s hand. In any case, the Rafale offers better technology and is probably a more effective aircraft overall than the Russian fighter.

Would India Purchase U.S. Jets in Response?:

There is also the prospect that India might move to buy fighter aircraft from the United States once it restarts the MMRCA program. The Lockheed Martin F-16IN and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet were both rejected last time around, but the United States does not have to offer the India a fourth-generation plane.

The United States could offer India participation on the Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Frankly, the United States has the wherewithal to offer India access to much better technology than Russia could ever hope to with the F-35 and follow-on projects. For India, the F-35 would kill two birds with one stone: access to advanced technology, and a trump card over Pakistan and China (in some respects). The only downside is that India would have to abide by U.S. restrictions on the aircraft--which it has traditionally resisted.

In fact, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter—when he was still the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics had expressed his willingness to sell India the fifth-generation stealth fighter in response to a question I had posed to him during an event at the Carnegie Endowment in January 2011.

"There is nothing on our side, no principle which bars that on our side, Indian participation in the Joint Strike Fighter. Right now, they're focused on these aircraft (F-16IN and F/A-18E/F) which are top-of-the-line fourth-generation fighters," Carter had said at the time.

Only time will tell if Russia ends up selling advanced weapons to Pakistan and driving India into a closer relationship with Europe and the United States. But, if Russia sells Su-35s to Pakistan, there is a chance one might see F-35s wearing IAF colors one day in the not so distant future.
Ohh sure F-35 to India year 2099 ?
That's nice !lolzz
 
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SU 35 to pakistan and F35 to India?

Dave Majumdar

September 14, 2015


Russia seems to be eager to antagonize both friend and foe alike these days.

In a move that seems to be completely inexplicable, Russia is apparently negotiating to sell Pakistan advanced Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighters along with Mi-35 Hind-E attack helicopters. Perhaps more amazingly, the Russians don’t seem to grasp that their Indian allies are likely to react extremely negatively at the prospect of such a deal.

“I do not think that the contracts under discussion will cause jealousy on the part of any of the two sides,” Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told state-owned Russian media outlet Sputnik on Sept. 9.

Despite the fact that the two South Asian nations share linguistic, cultural, geographic and economic links—and are part of the same civilization—they have fought three full-scale wars over the past several decades. At the best of times, their relationship has been fraught with hostility and suspicion—and that probably won’t improve until the generation that lived through the 1947 partition of India passes on. As Australian defense analyst Brian Cloughley told Defense News: “The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift.”

An Edge for Pakistan?:

Acquisition of the Su-35 would probably give Pakistan a marginal edge in terms of capability over India’s two-seat Su-30MKI if it is bought in numbers, but the newer Flanker model only offers modest improvements over its predecessor. Most of those could likely be retrofitted to the Indian Air Force (IAF) Flanker fleet. In fact, there are indications that Russia and India are discussing modernizing the IAF Su-30 fleet.

How Would India Respond?:

However, Russia’s move to supply India’s archenemy with advanced weapons could lead to the nascent South Asian giant turning further towards the United States and Europe. Indian prime minister Narendra Modi has already signaled his intention to purchase 36 Dassault Rafale multirole fighters off-the-shelf from France after the cancellation of the long-running Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) debacle. And there are some signs that a deal could be imminent.

If Russia starts to sell weapons to Pakistan, that could mean that France and the Eurofighter consortium will be in a far better position for when India inevitably issues another tender to replace its dwindling and increasingly decrepit fleet of antiquated Soviet-built MiG-21s and MiG-23s. Moreover, the prospect of Su-35s in Pakistani hands could prompt the Indians to act with a sense of urgency as they watch their perceived advantages erode away.


Another possibility is that because India urgently needs to start recapitalizing its rapidly dwindling fighter inventory, they could opt to simply extend the Rafale buy to the original numbers envisioned for the MMRCA program. It would be an expensive proposition, but national security concerns might force India’s hand. In any case, the Rafale offers better technology and is probably a more effective aircraft overall than the Russian fighter.

Would India Purchase U.S. Jets in Response?:

There is also the prospect that India might move to buy fighter aircraft from the United States once it restarts the MMRCA program. The Lockheed Martin F-16IN and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet were both rejected last time around, but the United States does not have to offer the India a fourth-generation plane.

The United States could offer India participation on the Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Frankly, the United States has the wherewithal to offer India access to much better technology than Russia could ever hope to with the F-35 and follow-on projects. For India, the F-35 would kill two birds with one stone: access to advanced technology, and a trump card over Pakistan and China (in some respects). The only downside is that India would have to abide by U.S. restrictions on the aircraft--which it has traditionally resisted.

In fact, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter—when he was still the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics had expressed his willingness to sell India the fifth-generation stealth fighter in response to a question I had posed to him during an event at the Carnegie Endowment in January 2011.

"There is nothing on our side, no principle which bars that on our side, Indian participation in the Joint Strike Fighter. Right now, they're focused on these aircraft (F-16IN and F/A-18E/F) which are top-of-the-line fourth-generation fighters," Carter had said at the time.

Only time will tell if Russia ends up selling advanced weapons to Pakistan and driving India into a closer relationship with Europe and the United States. But, if Russia sells Su-35s to Pakistan, there is a chance one might see F-35s wearing IAF colors one day in the not so distant future.

Dave Majumdar is the defense editor forThe National Interest. You can follow him on Twitter: @DaveMajumdar.
 
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