Taliban hardliners push to quit US talks as frustration grows at impasse

[Haris Ali2140]

the stakes in Iraq were much higher

18 years is a very long period of time. It wouldn't have been difficult for US to find a solution, even if it was occupied somewhere else.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Iraq - 60% Shias, 20% Sunnis, 20% Kurdas
Afghanistan - 55% non-Pusthuns, 45% Pusthuns

Get one group to slaughter another

the truth is Afghanistan has no real strategic importance for USA

And how exactly did this 'get one group to slaughter another' work out in Iraq, because at the end of the day, it was the Sunni tribes themselves that decided to turn against the terrorist groups and not because of some Shia+Kurd slaughter of the Sunni.

Out of all the critical neighbors with influence in Afghanistan (Pakistan, Iran, Russia) how many did the US actually take on board and work with? The US isolated arguably Afghanistan's most influential neighbor (Pakistan). If the US actually has even an inkling of how to win insurgencies, it would have implemented whatever allegedly 'successful' strategy it had in Iraq in Afghanistan. You can't apply the Iraqi template to Afghanistan and Afghanistan is a complete and utter US failure with respect to defeating the Taliban insurgency, with the US government, military, intelligence and analysts running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to find someone else to blame and pretending that 'oh yeah, if only the US could have done X, the US would have defeated the Taliban'.

Feed that BS to someone else please.

 

[nahtanbob]

And how exactly did this 'get one group to slaughter another' work out in Iraq, because at the end of the day, it was the Sunni tribes themselves that decided to turn against the terrorist groups and not because of some Shia+Kurd slaughter of the Sunni.

Out of all the critical neighbors with influence in Afghanistan (Pakistan, Iran, Russia) how many did the US actually take on board and work with? The US isolated arguably Afghanistan's most influential neighbor (Pakistan). If the US actually has even an inkling of how to win insurgencies, it would have implemented whatever allegedly 'successful' strategy it had in Iraq in Afghanistan. You can't apply the Iraqi template to Afghanistan and Afghanistan is a complete and utter US failure with respect to defeating the Taliban insurgency, with the US government, military, intelligence and analysts running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to find someone else to blame and pretending that 'oh yeah, if only the US could have done X, the US would have defeated the Taliban'.

Feed that BS to someone else please.

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/...-and-dead-the-face-of-revenge-in-baghdad.html
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/19/irans-shiite-militias-are-running-amok-in-iraq/
https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2015/01/26/the-real-head-drilling-butchers-of-iraq/
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/latest-news/article24447088.html

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/...-and-dead-the-face-of-revenge-in-baghdad.html
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/19/irans-shiite-militias-are-running-amok-in-iraq/
https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2015/01/26/the-real-head-drilling-butchers-of-iraq/
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/latest-news/article24447088.html

So was the Shia 'ethnic cleansing/genocide' of Sunnis in retaliation to the terrorist attacks on Shia sponsored by the US? Why hasn't this approach worked in Afghanistan if 'ethnic cleansing/genocide' of a community is the US template to success in fighting insurgencies?

Which one is it? You said 'don't use the word genocide' but the NYT itself is quoting some Iraqi Sunni's as calling the actions of the Shia death squads in Iraq as 'ethnic cleansing'. And was the US behind the Shia death squads?

 

[xyxmt]

Donald Trump is only buying time and have a peace deal until his election...dont get fooled twice

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Donald Trump is only buying time and have a peace deal until his election...dont get fooled twice

I agree - the US has throughout history shown that it cannot be trusted.

The US is tilting at the Chinese windmill and in that pursuit it's establishment/deep state will support genocidal maniacs like Modi and regimes committing atrocities like the BJP government in India.

Even if someone like Bernie Sanders was elected, the US deep state/establishment will pull out all the stops to make sure it influences his government to continue their depraved foreign policies abroad. That is why US foreign policy shows very little signs of change, regardless of whether there is a Republican or Democrat in power.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/...-and-dead-the-face-of-revenge-in-baghdad.html
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/19/irans-shiite-militias-are-running-amok-in-iraq/
https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2015/01/26/the-real-head-drilling-butchers-of-iraq/
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/latest-news/article24447088.html

The Govt. setup in Afg was nowhere democratic. It was made up of warlords who were against Taliban. So it was basically what you are suggesting. Even today if some group has gallimg out withthe Taliban they go to US and vice versa. So US has been pitching them against each other.

 

[nahtanbob]

Donald Trump is only buying time and have a peace deal until his election...dont get fooled twice

most of Trump supporters care less about Afghanistan

 

[Haris Ali2140]

I agree - the US has throughout history shown that it cannot be trusted.

The US is tilting at the Chinese windmill and in that pursuit it's establishment/deep state will support genocidal maniacs like Modi and regimes committing atrocities like the BJP government in India.

Even if someone like Bernie Sanders was elected, the US deep state/establishment will pull out all the stops to make sure it influences his government to continue their depraved foreign policies abroad. That is why US foreign policy shows very little signs of change, regardless of whether there is a Republican or Democrat in power.

Problem with Afg os that while it is a vey sweet strategic spot, US has only two routes and neither are direct, Iran and Pakistan. Iran is not viable without regime change which is not easy. Meanwhile with Pakistan, both countries have different goals in Afg. So its logical for deep state to stop pursuing it and use resources somewhere else.

 

[nahtanbob]

Problem with Afg os that while it is a vey sweet strategic spot, US has only two routes and neither are direct, Iran and Pakistan. Iran is not viable without regime change which is not easy. Meanwhile with Pakistan, both countries have different goals in Afg. So its logical for deep state to stop pursuing it and use resources somewhere else.

Afghanistan in itself has no intrinsic value. If Soviets had not invaded Afghanistan in 1979 and 9/11 had not happened USA would be not involved in Afghanistan. Without Pakistan or Iran providing a supply route it is impossible to maintain a presence in Afghanistan

 

[xyxmt]

most of Trump supporters care less about Afghanistan

most of his supporters are from red states, uneducated hill billy soldiers serving the country in Afghanistan.

 

[925boy]

Just wait and see my brother. Everything is going back to equilibrium in our part of the world.

Afghans and Pakistanis are one people, and have been throughout most of history.

Durrani Empire 1747

LMAO. try and get 1 inch of Iranian land...your hand will get cut off and you know it. The whole world is wondering why Pakistan and Afghanistan havent merged already if this will help. You Pakistanis on this forum generally dont like Afghanistan so it will be interesting to see how that merger works out .

the truth is Afghanistan has no real strategic importance for USA

America's investment in blood, resources, money prove what you said as false.

 

[TMA]

Just wait and see my brother. Everything is going back to equilibrium in our part of the world.

Afghans and Pakistanis are one people, and have been throughout most of history.

Durrani Empire 1747

Just wait and see my brother. Everything is going back to equilibrium in our part of the world.

Afghans and Pakistanis are one people, and have been throughout most of history.

Durrani Empire 1747

They hate Pakistanis. Have you forgotten how they treated them when they ruled the Durrani empire? Utter contempt even for non Afghan Muslims. No wonder the Sikh Raj rose up and defeated them. Remember when Indian Muslims migrated to Afghanistan from British India to live under a Muslim government, how they were robbed and dishonoured and returned to live under an infidel government.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

They hate Pakistanis. Have you forgotten how they treated them when they ruled the Durrani empire? Utter contempt even for non Afghan Muslims. No wonder the Sikh Raj rose up and defeated them. Remember when Indian Muslims migrated to Afghanistan from British India to live under a Muslim government, how they were robbed and dishonoured and returned to live under an infidel government.

Actually I have a far better opinion of Durranis than you do. We suffered under Sikh empire. For what know, there are still descendants of royal Mughals who migrated to Afghanistan and intermingled with Pukhtoons.

I know Waris Shah had negative opinion of Ahmad Shah Abdali, other than that mostly views were positive, and have remained so.

 

[TMA]

Actually I have a far better opinion of Durranis than you do. We suffered under Sikh empire. For what know, there are still descendants of royal Mughals who migrated to Afghanistan and intermingled with Pukhtoons.

I know Waris Shah had negative opinion of Ahmad Shah Abdali, other than that mostly views were positive, and have remained so.

The Sikh Empire arose in response to the oppression of the Durrani empire. Not saying that they were saints. It would be foolish to make Afghanistan and Pakistan one country based upon the exploits of the Durrani Empire. It would be far better to be good neighbours.