Taliban are not enemies !

[Leader]

Oh yes, that I did and would do it any day. To protect the law abiding Pakistani is my sworn duty, to stand by and watch as men are dragged out of their cars and beaten before their families, who's goods are looted from vans and taxis are burnt for no fault of their own is a disgrace to my oath. Others may be able to see the nation suffer, I can't. I believe in making decisions and executing them to protect this country, if that makes me a villain, then I respect your right to judge and reserve my own.



It's called drawing a comparison, it doesn't have to be entirely accurate as long as it conveys the meaning intended.



There is a darfted plan to settle any IDPs that may have to move from NWA, Pakistan has dealt with a much larger IDP crisis and defused it beautifully, God-willing if the need comes, we will be able to fully accommodate our brothers and sisters from NWA.



The reason why the military wants to move on NWA is to dismantle militant bases there, if we are able to destroy their base of operation they can take their men and their leadership structure because it will no longer pose a threat to us, they need social, fiscal and physical space which if snatched from them will leave them unable to operate. A commando assualt can be planned against a specific target but right now the whole agency is a perpetual fortress and it will take an active Op to break through but far from what many people believe, it will not be pitched battle. The TTP will desert and escape to Afghanistan before the Army crosses Mir Ali.

very touching and emotional, luckily some sense prevails in higher ups.. we all do in the name of country, thats usually our best excuse and justification, but hey you need not to give these crappy emotional exuses anymore, you are protected by the law now; PPO, abduct/torture/kill/dump/ and go free, you did this legally. no more need to say "in the name of Pakistan".

the message you are trying to convey is that we have consumed our chances to achieve peace with honour, without giving it even a chance or learning from past mistakes of surrendering swat to taliban terrorists.

to put it exactly, even the establishment doesnot know whats going to happen next, or where the country would be headed in case of operation.

please, blatantly inaccurate. I am sure you dont want to be displaced from your home, or be in the IDPs. the want they were managed with the stick was clear to everyone. the fact is collateral damage is least of the considerations. remember the lal masjid outfall engulfed the whole country, there was no planning whatsoever or control over events. again we are going to repeat the mistake.

bold part; yes that is necessary to go there and establish ourselves, but not as invaders, lets negotiate with left over Maliks and tribal elders and get their permission to ouster the rebel group, talibs are also rebel to the local setup as you may know.

I hope so, but I heard that there are still somewhat 10,000 armed men ready to fight, it might not be a pitch battle but there are chances of alot of encounters..

what are the chances of Afghans/Americans being on our side and sealing the border?

nonetheless whatever be the course of action, enough of this taliban and insurgency.. we should get control over our territory. and we will inshAllah.

 

[Icarus]

very touching and emotional, luckily some sense prevails in higher ups.. we all do in the name of country, thats usually our best excuse and justification, but hey you need not to give these crappy emotional exuses anymore, you are protected by the law now; PPO, abduct/torture/kill/dump/ and go free, you did this legally. no more need to say "in the name of Pakistan".

Well, that's why they're the higher ups and also why millions of dollars in destruction later, no one was brought to justice for the Nizam-e-Mustafa Day riots. Nobody gets abducted for fun, or in a random act, only those who represent a significant threat to those around them are abducted and those abducted are not killed and dumped. If I was killing people, I wouldn't leave them around for the world to see.

the message you are trying to convey is that we have consumed our chances to achieve peace with honour, without giving it even a chance or learning from past mistakes of surrendering swat to taliban terrorists.

I am saying that there was no chance to begin with, how can you have peace talks with an alternate fountainhead of power on the same land? Doesn't happen, there will be war as long as one overpowers the other.

to put it exactly, even the establishment doesnot know whats going to happen next, or where the country would be headed in case of operation

.

The establishment does know, however the military is giving ample time to the government and all concerned to try their hand at any solution that they deem fit, whilst withholding the use of military force as a contingency plan.

please, blatantly inaccurate. I am sure you dont want your family to be in IDPs, they want they were managed with the stick was clear to everyone. the fact is collateral damage is least of the considerations. remember the lal masjid outfall engulfed the whole country, there was no planning whatsoever or control over events. again we are going to repeat the mistake.

Lal Masjid is an entirely different scenario, many terrorists went free and later started the Hafsa Brigade of the Taliban in NWA. IDPs can be managed slightly better but there will always be the danger of some deserters getting away with the IDP, the fear of 200 taliban escaping while we go after 15,000 shouldn't be a factor that would endanger the operational planning. As far as my family being a part of the IDPs, for the country, I'd gladly leave them in a tent and go back to the fight.

bold part; yes that is necessary to go there and establish ourselves, but not as invaders, lets negotiate with left over Maliks and tribal elders and get their permission to ouster the rebel group, talibs are also rebel to the local setup as you may know.

The Maliks and Elders have been hijacked, those who opposed are now dead, the Bhittanis are already on board and will support the Army in any ground Op, Wazir Lashkar in SWA will also bring the NWA Wazirs on board. Darkanis are neutral but will support the Army once they enter.

I hope so, but I heard that there are still somewhat 10,000 armed men ready to fight, it might not be a pitch battle but there are chances of alot of encounters..

Encounters are imminent, there will be resistance, the TTP will not let their last bastion fall without a fight.

what are the chances of Afghans/Americans being on our side and sealing the border?

Very slim, they themselves have no control over the border areas.

nonetheless whatever be the course of action, enough of this taliban and insurgency.. we should get control over our territory. and we will inshAllah.

Inshallah, it isn't that big a challenge but there has to be National Consensus on the matter like there was during the Swat, Malakand, Buner, Dir and SWA Ops.

 

[Informant]

Leader, your arguments attack the opponent not his opinions, so there goes your credibility in this thread.

 

[Leader]

Again planning/management failure !

 

[Cheetah786]

https://twitter.com/x/status/427717160463773696

request to war-mongers not to abuse Sir Edhi.

With friends like Terrorist Taliban's who needs enemies Sir Edhi.

 

[Leader]

Well, that's why they're the higher ups and also why millions of dollars in destruction later, no one was brought to justice for the Nizam-e-Mustafa Day riots. Nobody gets abducted for fun, or in a random act, only those who represent a significant threat to those around them are abducted and those abducted are not killed and dumped. If I was killing people, I wouldn't leave them around for the world to see.



I am saying that there was no chance to begin with, how can you have peace talks with an alternate fountainhead of power on the same land? Doesn't happen, there will be war as long as one overpowers the other.

.

The establishment does know, however the military is giving ample time to the government and all concerned to try their hand at any solution that they deem fit, whilst withholding the use of military force as a contingency plan.



Lal Masjid is an entirely different scenario, many terrorists went free and later started the Hafsa Brigade of the Taliban in NWA. IDPs can be managed slightly better but there will always be the danger of some deserters getting away with the IDP, the fear of 200 taliban escaping while we go after 15,000 shouldn't be a factor that would endanger the operational planning. As far as my family being a part of the IDPs, for the country, I'd gladly leave them in a tent and go back to the fight.



The Maliks and Elders have been hijacked, those who opposed are now dead, the Bhittanis are already on board and will support the Army in any ground Op, Wazir Lashkar in SWA will also bring the NWA Wazirs on board. Darkanis are neutral but will support the Army once they enter.



Encounters are imminent, there will be resistance, the TTP will not let their last bastion fall without a fight.



Very slim, they themselves have no control over the border areas.



Inshallah, it isn't that big a challenge but there has to be National Consensus on the matter like there was during the Swat, Malakand, Buner, Dir and SWA Ops.

There seems to be consensus, and I think we will move in anytime when snow melts.

May Allah's protection be upon our boys and enemies be defeated, and all the FATA becomes peaceful and be taken under Pakistan's regular law.

 

[Icarus]

There seems to be consensus, and I think we will move in anytime when snow melts.

May Allah's protection be upon our boys and enemies be defeated, and all the FATA becomes peaceful and be taken under Pakistan's regular law.

If we are to move, moving before the snow melt would suit us as the mountain passes leading to Afghanistan will be closed and the peaks of most mountains will be vacated, which we can take as we are trained for high-altitude warfare anyway.
Roads into NWA are open year around so IDPs will be able to leave easily, that would leave the TTP cornered. If they attempt to cross into Afghanistan through the snow, they will lose many guys.

 

[Leader]

If we are to move, moving before the snow melt would suit us as the mountain passes leading to Afghanistan will be closed and the peaks of most mountains will be vacated, which we can take as we are trained for high-altitude warfare anyway.
Roads into NWA are open year around so IDPs will be able to leave easily, that would leave the TTP cornered. If they attempt to cross into Afghanistan through the snow, they will lose many guys.

good point, but it also makes us vulnerable too, also you are assuming that taliban will try to run.

IMO they will hide attack and run, and then come back hide, attack and run.

 

[Icarus]

good point, but it also makes us vulnerable too, also you are assuming that taliban will try to run.

IMO they will hide attack and run, and then come back hide, attack and run.

Which is exactly the cycle that will be broken if we undertake a winter offensive.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

nonsense...Edhi is on record condemning groups like TTP

it is his ambulances that often ferry bomb blast victims to emergency rooms....or transporting deads to the morgue

 

[xyxmt]

stop maligning Edhi
even if he said that, we still respect him
you Sir have millions Ehsan on this nation you can say anything

 

[waz]

I love Edhi sahib (may Allah protect him). His work can never be thanked enough.

We owe so much to you our dear elder.But and it is a big but, you are wrong this time. These people have killed thousands, whilst you have saved thousands.

 

[BATMAN]

There seems to be consensus, and I think we will move in anytime when snow melts.

May Allah's protection be upon our boys and enemies be defeated, and all the FATA becomes peaceful and be taken under Pakistan's regular law.

Another PPP in making.

 

[Bratva]

The reason why the military wants to move on NWA is to dismantle militant bases there, if we are able to destroy their base of operation they can take their men and their leadership structure because it will no longer pose a threat to us, they need social, fiscal and physical space which if snatched from them will leave them unable to operate. A commando assualt can be planned against a specific target but right now the whole agency is a perpetual fortress and it will take an active Op to break through but far from what many people believe, it will not be pitched battle. The TTP will desert and escape to Afghanistan before the Army crosses Mir Ali.

Orakzai agency hasn't been cleared/secured yet and last year operation showed it's worst agency to do an OP. . Wouldn't gains of N.Waziristan would be lost if TTP easily relocate themselves in to Orakzai agency and if that happens and TTP gets very strong in Orakzaai, we would see a strong comeback from them once again

 

[Joe Shearer]

I didn't join a TT, I came, I learnt, I saw how the more experienced members engaged in meaningful discourse and in due time, I became one of them.

@king cobra

That throw-away line is replete with wisdom. Do think about it, very seriously.