Take Tajikistan, but give Afghanistan to India: Ghani’s proposal to Pakistan can change the ...

[GR!FF!N]

I almost got a hear attack after reading the headline,I was like,WTF...Pakistan is taking Punga with Mother Russia???

Thank God,Pakistan is safe...

By the way,some genius is posting route through Karakoram to Tajikistan and further..should've ask him about cost and distance...its not about just access,its about cost too..

 

[The Terminator]

horus bro kher to he? its some Alexander The Great in u which is saying all that!!

 

[Icewolf]

Retarded proposal. Only give access to India when India matures and strives for friendly relations. Don't deal with cry babies. Plus, whats so good about Afghanistan? Theres nothing there literally that Indians would want. Even the minerals cost way too much to mine.

 

[Anmol]

Tajikistan bhi lengy, Afghanistan bhi lengy, Doodh bhi lengy aur Kheer bhi lengy, Kashmir bhi lengy aur cheer bhi dengy. @Atanz @Icarus @Hyperion

Bhai tu centi bahut Jeldi ho jata hai. Abhi to America tumhari aage aur peeche se le raha hai.
Mulle ki dad masjid tak...bhaiya an...Kay Samjha"?

 

[utraash]

@ Halfihal

Are you the resident retard here? We are engaging and furthering our national interest. Frankly I would not expect a Indian to say anything differant from what your saying.

Doing Mujra at official level of states making agreements for money is acceptable, even mighty nations like Germans have done it. This is infinitly better then 230 million starving Indian's with poverty worse than even Black Africa.

* India ranked poorest in south Asia on hunger index | Down To Earth
* Indian poverty levels higher than Pakistan's, says UN report - Telegraph
* More of world's poor live in India than in all sub-Saharan Africa, says study | World news | The Guardian

When occasionally the starving 230 milion Indian's do get a hold of dog's meal after having 'mujrahed' their back passage they inevitably need to sh*tt which they promptly do on the open streets of India. Perhaps it is a good thing that they don't get to eat much otherwise you would be in knee deep in crap.

* WHO | Fast facts

It will be the day when a Ganga dweller get's one over me. Now frigg off !

Still our ganga to slum dwellers has no reputation of self exploding......
Seeing your enthusiasm it seems Pakistan is all set to become First Islamic Utopian land....
Thank god drones are not hovering over Pakistani sky these days else we have seen the fate of citizens(ill fated due to complicit nature of Pakistan as a state) in a such sovereign land.....

Ontopic
India-Afghanistan needs to strengthen the relationship with or without Pakistan support.....

 

[Spy Master]

I almost got a hear attack after reading the headline,I was like,WTF...Pakistan is taking Punga with Mother Russia???

Thank God,Pakistan is safe...

By the way,some genius is posting route through Karakoram to Tajikistan and further..should've ask him about cost and distance...its not about just access,its about cost too..

If you had only Read carefully...He did mention the Distance and its 100 miles longer only than Afghanistan Route...!

 

[Liquidmetal]

Chabahar makes all goods 2-3x more expensive compared to Wagah to Afghanistan along the beautiful clear motorways all the way to Peshawar and then onwards to Afghanistan and vice-versa. So there is a desperation to ensure access via this route but until then, it is via mumbai- sea lanes and then a much longer route to Kabul. This route also adds 3/4 days to the transportation duration. So the land route through PK is a no brainer. Gwadar to Afghan is also a good option if the afghans want to diversify fro KHI. Withe upcoming PK-CHN economic corridor, it would be foolish for Afk to alienate PK vis-a-vis their bonhomie with India.

 

[pakistani342]

I almost got a hear attack after reading the headline,I was like,WTF...Pakistan is taking Punga with Mother Russia???

Thank God,Pakistan is safe...

By the way,some genius is posting route through Karakoram to Tajikistan and further..should've ask him about cost and distance...its not about just access,its about cost too..

Ahem, the way you transform a sphere (the earth) onto a flat surface (paper) makes the northern route for Pakistan look much longer than it is - Going through China to Central Asia is not much longer than Afghanistan to Central Asia.

Further that route is going to be secure - who knows what the future holds for Afghanistan.

Further still, the road infrastructure of Afghanistan has deteriorated - I don't have the figure handy but it was possibly more than 50% of Afghan highways have deteriorated significantly.

The Western taxpayer's dollars are receding fast.

 

[Viking 63]

Ohh!! These back stabbing afghans do not surprises me any more ! this moron does not understand that he has land locked country totally dependent on Pak ports, and he is indirectly threatening ..LOL

 

[GR!FF!N]

If you had only Read carefully...He did mention the Distance and its 100 miles longer only than Afghanistan Route...!

But that genius missed Geography classes.The path is through Kulma(Or Qolma) Pass(which is only border crossing in Tajikistan-China border),which remains open only through May to November(that too 16th-30th of each month,but after 2011,its changed.see the link below).also,Its a Pass Mainly for Tajikistan-China bilateral business.No other country is allowed to use that Pass.In other word,There is no route to Tajikistan except via Afghanistan(If you don't wish to go through China-Kyrgyzstan-Uzbekistan route,which is pretty lengthy.It takes Chinese some 15 days more to get into Tajikistan).

Google Map doesn't provide you every kind of details...just putting a route through China means nothing at all.

Ahem, the way you transform a sphere (the earth) onto a flat surface (paper) makes the northern route for Pakistan look much longer than it is - Going through China to Central Asia is not much longer than Afghanistan to Central Asia.

Further that route is going to be secure - who knows what the future holds for Afghanistan.

Further still, the road infrastructure of Afghanistan has deteriorated - I don't have the figure handy but it was possibly more than 50% of Afghan highways have deteriorated significantly.

The Western taxpayer's dollars are receding fast.

Comment no 40# is for you,and any other Pakistanis who can think they can bypass Afghanistan.

Here is Kulma Pass....

Kulma Pass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

here is a news how around the year trading is performed via Kulma Pass....

Some restrictions imposed on passing via Kulma crossing during winter period | Tajikistan News-NA «Asia-Plus»

here is all the border crossings of Tajikistan,plot which one you're going to use....

Tajikistan border crossings | Caravanistan

 

[Amaa'n]

Tajikistan bhi lengy, Afghanistan bhi lengy, Doodh bhi lengy aur Kheer bhi lengy, Kashmir bhi lengy aur cheer bhi dengy. @Atanz @Icarus @Hyperion

lagta hai aaj kal Indian media ke liye Burnol Afghanistan se a rahi hai :wink:

 

[Spy Master]

But that genius missed Geography classes.The path is through Kulma(Or Qolma) Pass(which is only border crossing in Tajikistan-China border),which remains open only through May to November(that too 16th-30th of each month,but after 2011,its changed.see the link below).also,Its a Pass Mainly for Tajikistan-China bilateral business.No other country is allowed to use that Pass.In other word,There is no route to Tajikistan except via Afghanistan(If you don't wish to go through China-Kyrgyzstan-Uzbekistan route,which is pretty lengthy.It takes Chinese some 15 days more to get into Tajikistan).

Google Map doesn't provide you every kind of details...just putting a route through China means nothing at all.



Comment no 40# is for you,and any other Pakistanis who can think they can bypass Afghanistan.

Here is Kulma Pass....

Kulma Pass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

here is a news how around the year trading is performed via Kulma Pass....

Some restrictions imposed on passing via Kulma crossing during winter period | Tajikistan News-NA «Asia-Plus»

here is all the border crossings of Tajikistan,plot which one you're going to use....

Tajikistan border crossings | Caravanistan

@Atanz

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I
By the way,some genius is posting route through Karakoram to Tajikistan and further..should've ask him about cost and distance...its not about just access,its about cost too..

Pakistan is already linked with Kashgar, China via the KKH. I already posted the photo's of that with English, Chinese and Russian signage. The KKH has been operational since at least 1979. KKH connects Islamabad to Kashgar in China and I believe the Chinese are going to widen it as part of the much talked Economic Corridor.

This my not so genius friend means Pakistan is already connected to Kashgar, China. Kashgar in China is a nodal point in conections to Central Asia be it to Kazakistan, Uzbekistan, Kirghizistan or Tajikistan. The Chinese are and this is nothing to do with us in Pakistan busy building building roads on a scale not seen before. As members of SCO they are keen on linking with Central Asia.

We in Pakistan don't have spend a cent. The Chinese trust me will link up with all of Central Asia as they already have with more important Central Asian countries like Kazakistan and Uzbekistan. Tajikistan is also recieving their attention. So all we have to do is use Chinese infrastructure from Kashgar and trust me Chinese will end up a with a network far superior, faster. safer and efficient then Afghans can ever hope to offer.

I don't have time right now but I will upload maps later. However I can tell you all we have to do is just chill out and let the Chinese road sysatem take care of us. Also given the Chinese trading acumen they will build trading routes to any place in Central Asia worth a few dollars. If they don't connect to a place trust me it won't be worth it.

So to reiterate we already are connected to Kashgar, China via KKH. All we have to is maintain KKH and then rely on the Chinese lust for trade and building incredible networks .....

All this is part of the wider North South Economic Corridor that was agreed with China recently. We need to chill and watch the Chinese build this driven by their own self interest. This subject has to be looked at as part of this broader scheme Chinese ambitions in Central Asia. Afghanistan with it's law and order, instability will become increasingly marginal. You are aware that the Afghan north south road goes through the notorious Soviet era Salang Tunnel which gets blocked regularly.

In conclusion we don't build any roads to Central Asia. The Chinese need to connect Sinkiang Uighur to Central Asia for their own development. Is anybody suggesting that Chinese are going fail to do that? Looking at their road building record you would be foolish to doubt that.

"In contrast, the Dushanbe-Kulma Pass road, which would connect China to Tajikistan directly, was perilous and for the most parts a mud or stone track. The road immediately out of the capital (toward Dungara—President Rahmon’s home province) was well developed as was a Chinese-built portion along the Afghan border that had been funded by the Asia Development Bank (ADB), but the rest of the road was virtually impassable to all but large trucks and high performance four-wheel drive SUVs [7]. Chinese road crews were visible on the portions of road near Dushanbe—working with signs in Chinese and Russian—but for the most part, the road was destitute, highlighting its relatively low priority in Chinese terms. For China, the priority was to develop Tajikistan’s links through Garm to Saray Tash and Osh in Kyrgyzstan, tying the country’s routes to Uzbekistan (also Chinese built as previously indicated) into the road network linking Kyrgyzstan to China directly through Irkeshtam and the Torugut Pass (“China’s Slow Surge in Kyrgyzstan,” China Brief, November 11, 2011).

Tajik officials interviewed were keen to boost the profile of a potential rail connection from China through Kyrgyzstan and northern Tajikistan to Afghanistan and eventually Indian Ocean ports—either Chinese-developed Gwadar in Pakistan or Bandar Abbas in Iran.

* Karakoram Highway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In short as long as we are connected to Kashgar, Sinkiag Uighur all of Central Asia is yours including even Russian Siberia.

This is where we are heading and with the Chinese driving this wagon rest assured it will be done.

NATO supply routes through Pakistan ( 80% ) and Central Asia-Russia-Europe.

 

[mewtwo]

This is so stupid! Ghani should have thought before he speak does not he know most of Afghan Trade is done through Afghanistan and he is Demanding such things by trying to threaten to close access of pakistan to CA? Ghani probably will take his country to starving :V

 

[kalu_miah]

But that genius missed Geography classes.The path is through Kulma(Or Qolma) Pass(which is only border crossing in Tajikistan-China border),which remains open only through May to November(that too 16th-30th of each month,but after 2011,its changed.see the link below).also,Its a Pass Mainly for Tajikistan-China bilateral business.No other country is allowed to use that Pass.In other word,There is no route to Tajikistan except via Afghanistan(If you don't wish to go through China-Kyrgyzstan-Uzbekistan route,which is pretty lengthy.It takes Chinese some 15 days more to get into Tajikistan).

Google Map doesn't provide you every kind of details...just putting a route through China means nothing at all.



Comment no 40# is for you,and any other Pakistanis who can think they can bypass Afghanistan.

Here is Kulma Pass....

Kulma Pass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

here is a news how around the year trading is performed via Kulma Pass....

Some restrictions imposed on passing via Kulma crossing during winter period | Tajikistan News-NA «Asia-Plus»

here is all the border crossings of Tajikistan,plot which one you're going to use....

Tajikistan border crossings | Caravanistan

The first thing we have to remember about Central Asia is that 5 stans used to be part of former Soviet Union, which had extensive road and railway network. Some of these are being improved upon. I will now present a series of maps:

Old historical Silk Road

detailed Xinjiang map showing road passes to Kyrgyzstan (9,Ulugqat/Erkeshtam and 9,Baykurt, Torugart) and Kazakhstan in the north (6/7 and Burqin)

Torugart Pass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Investment Projects Implementation Group- Bishkek - Naryn - Torugart

Erkeshtam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

proposed China-Kyrgyzstan-Uzbekistan railway
Afghanistan in China's Emerging Eurasian Transport Corridor - by Richard Weitz

So even if Kulma pass is not ideal, the main transit route between China and Central Asia with both rail + road is going to be via Kyrgyzstan (Torugart and Erkeshtam pass). Khorgos gateway is the main planned route via Kazakhstan:
Home
Kashi is Chinese for Kashgar

Central Asia Regional Economic Cooperation (CAREC) Program

If you follow all the maps above and take into account the planned railway projects, as long as Pakistan can reach Kashgar by Khunjerab pass, it will get connected to one of the main planned China-Kyrgyzstan-Uzbekistan railway and road route, which will extend to EU via Russia in the north and via Azerbaijan, Armenia and Turkey in the south. Both Tajikistan and Afghanistan will be connected to this route for their own reason, but Afghanistan itself holds no bargaining position to dictate any condition on Pakistan for any kind of connectivity to Central Asia. Besides, security in Afghanistan is still a big if and no guarantee when it will improve.

Currently Erkeshtam/Irkeshtam is the main pass from Kashgar to Kyrgyzstan for road transport:

Irkeshtam Pass: Osh-Kashgar | Caravanistan
Irkeshtam Pass: Osh-Kashgar
The Irkeshtam pass is the easy border crossing between Kyrgyzstan (Osh – Sary Tash) and China (Kashgar), and really, it’s not that easy (the landscape is spectacular though). The other border crossing from Kyrgyzstan into China is the Torugart pass. Tajikistan’s crossing with China, the Qolma Pass, is still closed to foreigners.

Many people manage to cross between Kashgar and Osh in one long day, but it is not certain, so stock up on food (there are some dining options at the border, though). The Irkeshtam pass is busy year-round. The Kyrgyz checkpoint at the pass operates from 9am to 11am and 2pm to 6pm, Monday to Friday. An early start is recommended.

In China, the new border is 143km inland at Wuqia/Uluqqat. All your documents and luggage are checked at the actual border. The process of passport checks seems to have been streamlined now, so there is less time-wasting, but from the mountain top border to Wuqia, several checks to show your passport are normal. Guards are generally friendly on both sides.

The whole road from Osh to Kashgar has been rebuilt in 2013 and is in a good state. You can exchange RMB into som or US$ and vice versa at the border.

Border closures
The border operates year-round, but with long closures during Chinese and Kyrgyz public holidays. For instance, in 2014, the border was closed for the Chinese national holiday from 27th of September until 9th of October, even though the holiday was only 1-7 October.

So choose your time buffer wisely.

Wikipedia has an overview of Kyrgyz holidays and Chinese holidays.

Buses
It’s quicker and cheaper to do the route by shared taxi, but if you want, there is a Kashgar – Osh – Kashgar bus: see the following chapters for more details on the schedule.

2 new bus routes should open soon or have already opened. One bus will run between Kashgar and Jalal-Abad, and another will run between Artux and Osh. No details yet here, please let us know if you find out.