Taiwan: No tie-up with China in disputed sea

[ChineseTiger1986]

not delusional at all. The reason why Taiwan rejected PRC advances before was because of money. If you have money, why would you want to join a poor family? When China becomes powerful and prosperous in a couple more years, the people of Taiwan would beg to be part of the union.

Alas, such is the nature of Man. Reject the poor, envy (and want to join) the powerful and rich.

Since you bring delusion into this.... You know what's delusional? Indian national unity. It's impossible. people simply do not identify with other regions. People in Tamil Nadu don't want to pay for people in Bihar. It's simply impossible for people of so many cultural and language differences to accept each other. As long as India is divided amongst ethnic and caste lines, it will be impossible for India to be strong.

Don't drink the western coolaid. India's strength is not its diversity. Diversity (and factionalism) are one of the biggest factors why India is struggling today. Divided, India falls.

Maybe Viet can also be impressed by the China in the next 20 years, so they could join us if they want just like past thousand years.

 

[faithfulguy]

not delusional at all. The reason why Taiwan rejected PRC advances before was because of money. If you have money, why would you want to join a poor family? When China becomes powerful and prosperous in a couple more years, the people of Taiwan would beg to be part of the union.

Alas, such is the nature of Man. Reject the poor, envy (and want to join) the powerful and rich.

Since you bring delusion into this.... You know what's delusional? Indian national unity. It's impossible. people simply do not identify with other regions. People in Tamil Nadu don't want to pay for people in Bihar. It's simply impossible for people of so many cultural and language differences to accept each other. As long as India is divided amongst ethnic and caste lines, it will be impossible for India to be strong.

Don't drink the western coolaid. India's strength is not its diversity. Diversity (and factionalism) are one of the biggest factors why India is struggling today. Divided, India falls.

India's strength is not in its diversity. But in its religion. Its the Hindu religion that hold that country together. Just like Juidaism hold Israel together. Without Hinduism, India won't be a country at all. It would be divided into many states.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Also added, Vietnam has managed 2 archipelagos Paracels and Spratlys from the 15th century. In 1858 France invaded VN and VN then became a French colony. French had managed 2 archipelagos base on behalf of VN. In 1938 Japan invaded 2 archipelagos from French.
Thus, before 1946, Chinese did not manage any island in 2 archipelagos.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No friend, the Cairo and Potsdam Declarations were only assigned to ROC disarming Japanese troops in Indochina (including islands) above the 16th parallel, British-Indian army disarming the Japanese troops from the 16th parallel down. (Indochina = Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia under the French regime)
So in 1945-1946, 200,000 Chiang's troops were dragged into northern Vietnam.

Chiang Kai-shek was only behalf of the Allies to receive the surrender of Japan in that area. It doesn't make sense on sovereignty claims.
(But ROC troops exceeded the prescribed, they crossed 16th parallel, to disarm the Japanese troops in both Paracels and Spratlys)

If following your logic, the Cairo and Potsdam Declarations also recognized North VN of Chiang's sovereignty?

KMT was the one who made the nine dash line, it is perfectly natural for PRC to take that claim as its legitimate successor.

 

[doidoi2]

Maybe Viet can also be impressed by the China in the next 20 years, so they could join us if they want just like past thousand years.

That's a terrible idea. Integrating people who differ culturally, linguistically, and physically are bad ideas in general. Just look at India and the chaos it's in.

Just watch, in the next 20 years, Vietnamese and other Asians, Africans etc will flood across the border to China in search of a better life. There will be social problems because of this. I guarantee it.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

That's a terrible idea. Integrating people who differ culturally, linguistically, and physically are bad ideas in general. Just look at India and the chaos it's in.

Just watch, in the next 20 years, Vietnamese and other Asians, Africans etc will flood across the border to China in search of a better life. There will be social problems because of this. I guarantee it.

I was just kidding, but now we are looking for the solution to get rid of those illegal Viet aliens within our border.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

KMT was the one who made the nine dash line, it is perfectly natural for PRC to take that claim as its legitimate successor.

Right! after disarming the Japanese troops in 2 archipelagoes (Paracels and Spratlys) in 1946, Chiang's troops had some patrol boats around the SCS. Then one of them after return home in 1947, he drew a so-called "11 dashed line". Actually, no one can understand the idea of what it is.
Later PRC had left 2 dashed (which were in Gulf of Tonkin in map), the remaining "9 dashed line" today.
Honestly, the unfounded "9 dashed line" is biggest causes controversy in the SCS.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Maybe Viet can also be impressed by the China in the next 20 years, so they could join us if they want just like past thousand years.

I think the opposite. If the PRC does not change its expansionist ideas, the more likely it will collapse, paving the way for many of countries to the newly formed and Republic of Taiwan join the UN....

 

[faithfulguy]

Right! after disarming the Japanese troops in 2 archipelagoes (Paracels and Spratlys) in 1946, Chiang's troops had some patrol boats around the SCS. Then one of them after return home in 1947, he drew a so-called "11 dashed line". Actually, no one can understand the idea of what it is.
Later PRC had left 2 dashed (which were in Gulf of Tonkin in map), the remaining "9 dashed line" today.
Honestly, the unfounded "9 dashed line" is biggest causes controversy in the SCS.

ROC government already claimed Paracels and Spratlys prior to WWII. After WWII, ROC reclaimed the islands from Japn. ROC never give up the rights of the island in its existence. Qing dynamsty, the predecessor of ROC, claimed the islands and even made protest against German gunboats in 1880s. France never claimed the island until 1935. As Vietnam cease to exist until 1946 and France never made any claims to the island until a weak claim in 1935, when it performed a naval expedition and expelled Chinese fisherman there, Vietnam had ceased to claim the islands at that time. So ROC has the best case for the island of all the parties involved. Also, as ROC is one of the 3 major powers in Cairo and Potsdam conference, would it surrender the territory that it regards as its own? Think about it and you will see that in modern times, ROC has the best claim.

As for the claims hundred years ago, it turn out that both China and Vietnam made claims to these islands. These claims are not valid now as its superseded by Cairo and Potsdam conference, which ROC is a major member.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I think the opposite. If the PRC does not change its expansionist ideas, the more likely it will collapse, paving the way for many of countries to the newly formed and Republic of Taiwan join the UN....

China doesn't need to annex Vietnam which has almost very little natural resources, but China can artificially divide Vietnam into two parts in the next 20 years, this all depends on China's mood.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

ROC government already claimed Paracels and Spratlys prior to WWII. After WWII, ROC reclaimed the islands from Japn. ROC never give up the rights of the island in its existence. Qing dynamsty, the predecessor of ROC, claimed the islands and even made protest against German gunboats in 1880s. France never claimed the island until 1935. As Vietnam cease to exist until 1946 and France never made any claims to the island until a weak claim in 1935, when it performed a naval expedition and expelled Chinese fisherman there, Vietnam had ceased to claim the islands at that time. So ROC has the best case for the island of all the parties involved. Also, as ROC is one of the 3 major powers in Cairo and Potsdam conference, would it surrender the territory that it regards as its own? Think about it and you will see that in modern times, ROC has the best claim.

As for the claims hundred years ago, it turn out that both China and Vietnam made claims to these islands. These claims are not valid now as its superseded by Cairo and Potsdam conference, which ROC is a major member.

But if following your logic, North VN, from parallel 16 and over was under the sovereignty of the ROC.
But why does ROC have not claim it?

 

[Fil Pacifist]

ROC is already dead, so the China sovereignty can only be defended by the current legitimate regime, which is PRC.

Your dead ROC is purchasing 66 F16 Block C/D fighters to defend against your corrupt CPC.

Whether it's the Republic of CHINA or the People's Republic of CHINA, it's still CHINA. There's nothing anyone else can do or say to influence that. Taiwan will return to be part of China one day. It's not a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when'.

China will crumble and will wish to become part of Taiwan someday.

 

[faithfulguy]

But if following your logic, North VN, from parallel 16 and over was under the sovereignty of the ROC.
But why does ROC have not claim it?

ROC was suppose to disarm Japanese soldiers there. But VN north of 16th parallel was French territory. So ROC return the area to France. Not so with the SCS islands. You need to distinguish between the two.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

ROC was suppose to disarm Japanese soldiers there. But VN north of 16th parallel was French territory. So ROC return the area to France. Not so with the SCS islands. You need to distinguish between the two.

No, before 1946, ROC had never controlled the two archipelagos. In 1857 France started to invade VN and in 1887 France invaded 2 archipelagos from Vietnamese Nguyễn King. Then France managed 2 archipelagos base on behalf of VN colonial.
France built the 2 built weather stations on the 2 archipelagos. Specifically, in the Spratly archipelago, French built a weather station on Ba Binh island, which today is occupied by Taiwan.
In 1938 Japan invade 2 archipelagos from France and VN colonial.
Thus, before the Japanese occupied 2 archipelagos, they were managed by Vietnam and then France as a representative of its VN colonial.
And once again to repeat, before 1946 China had never controlled 2 archipelagos.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

That's a terrible idea. Integrating people who differ culturally, linguistically, and physically are bad ideas in general. Just look at India and the chaos it's in.

Just watch, in the next 20 years, Vietnamese and other Asians, Africans etc will flood across the border to China in search of a better life. There will be social problems because of this. I guarantee it.

My friend, no need to look at India, what you say is happening in China, with the Han, Uyghurs, Tibetans, Manchus, Mongols, Baiyue (Cantonese)...

I don't know what will happen next 20 years, but right now, the Chinese laborers are flooding the construction sites in Vietnam, and we are bearing the social problems because of that.

BTW: I understand the psychology of the Taiwanese, who are enjoying freedom, they don't want to be ruled by Beijing's many prohibitions.